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The OTHER side of the fence
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/23/2003  8:37 PM
Well it'd be either KVH (if this deal happens) or Spree (if hopefully it doesn't). We'd be better off keeping Spree's scoring if Allan were traded amd wouldn't need him to snatch boards if Sheed and Dyess were in the frontcourt.

Sheed
Dyess
Lampe
Spree
Williams

I would let Scott LayDown off the hook (and that sez ALOT! )for presenting a lineup like this come training camp. We'd be out from under Allan's contract and both Spree and Sheed will be off the books in 2 years. We can still trade KT for Keon if Dyess is still injured and still be pretty solid.



[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 07/23/2003 20:39:58]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
AUTOADVERT
sebstar
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7/23/2003  8:38 PM
So essentially what you are doing Knixphan is letting Layden off the hook because of his own ineptitude. The supposed reason why we “cant” acquire superstars is directly linked to Scott’s mismanagement. If that’s the case, if he is going to tell us that his screwups have made it impossible to get anything but the Van Horn’s of the world, then he should be fired on the spot and separated for the 4 million dollar a year checks he is straight up stealing.

Sorry if I am not content to want till 2039 or whenever the hell Houston finally stops collecting 20 million dollar a year checks to shoot three’s …And if we just lie down and except it, who will be the next non All Stars to waltz in and hit the jackpot… NO, we talk about it NOW… BTW, 42 million dollars is a little steep for a J.R Reid placeholder. Why another middle of the road expensive player? If not a superstar why not young exciting players with some upside?

And if you just want to look at it purely in the Van Horn vacuum, from a pure philosophical sense, this is another example of Scott’s obsession with “character” guys which currently has the knicks swimming in passionless Spoon/Eisely/Houston/Othella/Knight induced boredom. Out of all the players in the league Layden was hot on Van Horn’s trail… He doesn’t give a damn about whether somebody can actually play or not.

Othella, Spoon, Houston, Eisley, and Anderson command money well in excess of 200 million dollars…it’s a concept that is hard to wrap the mind around. This isn’t a coincidence. Dolan has already dissed the 1999 squad/management because they didn’t “get along”. So that’s their warped goal, to get sorry milquetoast players with bloated contracts where everybody smiles at each other.

Again, I am not going to accept mediocrity unlike some Layden apologists who spout the company line b.s and demand that dissenters shut up. While most of the league, even bush league cities like Sacramento has their act together with All-Star’s to spare, the supposed MECCA of Basketball has to put up with this ****
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/23/2003  8:42 PM
Wow, Seb...
You bringin' the ruckus like that reminds me of myself.

However, knixphan did say that he's willing to trade Allan.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 07/23/2003 20:43:47]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
knixphan
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7/23/2003  8:54 PM
To clarify, I'm no Lyden apologist. But I'm not going to wait outside his office with a molotov ****tail either. I accept the things I cannot change. Layden's employment is out of my power range. If it were up to me, Spike would be the GM.

I don't think we should thank Scotty for the dumb moves, but they have indeed been made. Allan's money has to get paid out by someone.

In the meantime, I advocate discussions like this. But discussing how Layden is a pimple on the ass of life will not get us to a long-term solution, agreed?

As HARDCORE pointed out, I'll laugh all the way to the garden (and that's 2400 miles for me) if we can pry Sheed from Portland for H20. I'm just thinking he might have to help out and choke someone.

I'm just separating the anger from past - and the objectivity required to navigate the present. Driving with road rage gets you killed, you feel me?

"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/23/2003  9:00 PM
Knixphan, you're 2400 miles away from MSG?
I guess I'd better not take the 12 stops on the #3 train I gotta ride to MSG for granted.

BTW I am feelin' that "road rage" analogy. LOL
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
knixphan
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7/23/2003  9:09 PM
I'm tellin' ya Hardcore, I keep it real out here in L.A.-

Although I'm a Queens-born Harlemite, I've been working in CA for the last 5 years, and I wear NYK gear to all the Staples Center games, at risk of life and limb. But I'm prepared to bleed for my dogs!

You hear me Scotty! People put their lives on the line for the Knicks! Please help us out!!!

Part of this is also Ewing not being forced to stay and walk off the books. The era would have ended with a crash-bang, but in hindsight that would have been better than the 'trickle-out' of the '90's Knicks' era. (Spree being the last member of that group)

Now it must start anew...But you know you're gonna catch mad heat for even speaking Rasheed's name in association with the Knicks...
"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/23/2003  10:13 PM
Posted by knixphan:

I'm tellin' ya Hardcore, I keep it real out here in L.A.-

Although I'm a Queens-born Harlemite, I've been working in CA for the last 5 years, and I wear NYK gear to all the Staples Center games, at risk of life and limb. But I'm prepared to bleed for my dogs!

You hear me Scotty! People put their lives on the line for the Knicks! Please help us out!!!

Part of this is also Ewing not being forced to stay and walk off the books. The era would have ended with a crash-bang, but in hindsight that would have been better than the 'trickle-out' of the '90's Knicks' era. (Spree being the last member of that group)

Now it must start anew...But you know you're gonna catch mad heat for even speaking Rasheed's name in association with the Knicks...

Glad to hear that you're reppin' the Knicks on the West side! We gotta hold our Knicks down, baby, from your end in LA to my end in BK!

I too wish that Ewing stayed through the full term of his contract. However, the NYK can still overcome this cap disaster.

As far as my having mentioned wanting Sheed on the Knicks, I can handle anyone who'd make the mistake of trying to bring the ruckus to me about it (They don't call me HARDCORE for nothin'! ). It's a good idea, and I don't think anyone would make a big deal about it.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 07/23/2003 22:14:36]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
nwny
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7/24/2003  5:09 PM
Posted by knixphan:

okay, I'd do Houston/Doleac for Sheed in a minute. It would make the waiting more fun, at the very least. Still, the true saviour would still come afterwards. I agree with it from a pure entertainment perspective. The garden would be unpredictable with Sheed as the focal point.

And let's just say there's something left in Antonio's poor little legs. For the sake of fantasy. Sheed/Dice is an ok starting FC. the other three would be Williams/Shandon/VanHorn, I presume?
OK, I've seen this idea a few times and I let it slid. I'm done with letting junk like this slide. This has to be the dumbest, idea ever from Portland point of view. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Why would you give up the second maybe third best PF in the league for guys that not even in the top 10 at their position. This is trading cards it. It doesn't matter if we offer 10 pieces of junk for one could player, they still won't take it. Because at the end o the day it's still junk!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/24/2003  5:23 PM
Nwny, chill out, son.

It was asked if a trade would work and I made a suggestion. It ain't about nobody up in here lettin' nothin' slide, we are having a discussion. People toss around ideas.

Instead of jawjackin', why don't you present some workable (in realGM) trades for an impact big man that can help the Knicks.

It's mad easy to bicker about someone else's suggestion, but the man's challenge is to come up with a better one.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
necrom33
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7/24/2003  5:25 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Nwny, chill out, son.

It was asked if a trade would work and I made a suggestion. It ain't about nobody up in here lettin' nothin' slide, we are having a discussion. People toss around ideas.

Instead of jawjackin', why don't you present some workable (in realGM) trades for an impact big man that can help the Knicks.

It's mad easy to bicker about someone else's suggestion, but the man's challenge is to come up with a better one.

LOL. I'll criticize a trade idea to death, but I've NEVER been able to make one work on RealGM. I gave up so long ago, we still had Rice when I last tried, I think!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/24/2003  5:30 PM
LOL necrom, damn that was a long time ago!

It's just a matter of making sure the numbers match. RealGM updated the trade checker a year or two ago. Instead of the actual salaries listed, it uses salary ratios. It's actually easier than it used to be. Give it a try. You can also use the trade ID numbers I posted earlier and re-create them to see how the matching works.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
knixphan
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7/24/2003  5:31 PM
We probably need to make a master list of 'High-Priced-Players-With-Drama'
on other teams.


Then we can see what the potential returns of a Houston trade would be.

**So, nwny, I take it you think Portland wouldn't do the Sheed thing, huh? I'm getting that vibe. Subtle, but I get that vibe. -

Of course it benefits us more than them. That's why I said he'd have to help out by choking someone. Spree was more valuable than StarksMillsCummings at one point...

Hardcore was just making a point that there were *potentially trade opportunities NY could have pursued before trading the popular guard. Because I made the point that H20 was untradeable.

"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
technomaster
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7/24/2003  6:03 PM
Well... maybe if we put together a Thomas/Houston for 'Sheed/Stoudamire deal, they'd probably go for it. they'd get rid of 2 headaches.

Houston's not a bad player, he's just a tad overpaid--- As far as fair value goes, he should be paid along the same lines as Stackhouse / Ray Allen / Rip Hamilton.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/24/2003  8:21 PM
Posted by technomaster:

Well... maybe if we put together a Thomas/Houston for 'Sheed/Stoudamire deal, they'd probably go for it. they'd get rid of 2 headaches.

Okay I made it work but had to throw in some funny ones... LOL

#1158128 in RealGM....
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
nwny
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7/24/2003  10:18 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Nwny, chill out, son.

It was asked if a trade would work and I made a suggestion. It ain't about nobody up in here lettin' nothin' slide, we are having a discussion. People toss around ideas.

Instead of jawjackin', why don't you present some workable (in realGM) trades for an impact big man that can help the Knicks.

It's mad easy to bicker about someone else's suggestion, but the man's challenge is to come up with a better one.
Point taken.
I think the key to getting back on top is figuring out how to ship Allan out. Everyone who likes H20 please don't post a bunch of stuff about him improving his game. The salary structure of the NBA has changed. 5 years ago Indy would have signed B. Miller and had a pretty dominating front line. Now if you are not making a run why pay a dollar for dollar luxury tax? We have to move Allan. Period. I'm thinking New Jersey. The Nets are the worst Shooting team, and we all know the one thing Allan can do is shoot the ball. Also they don't need Dikembe. At this stage of his career Collins and Williams are good enough to back up Zo. NJ gets the outside shooting they desperatley need. They give up a center they don't need. Their payroll goes down. They will have to take on a longer contract but they will be still over the cap long after H2O contract is up. We might have to through in draft pick. We would have to take Dikembe massive contract. Which would increase our payroll. The good news is it's only for 2 more seasons (counting the upcoming season). So at the end of next season.
Allan contract is gone
Dikembe
McDyess
Ward
Thomas
Knight
Othella
and....Doleac
all, all, of them come off our cap!
This puts us under the cap. The lineup may look something like this:
C Varnes
PF Sweetney /Weatherspoon
SF Van Horn/Lampe
SG Anderson
PG Williams/Eisley/Milos
I know the lineup is kind of a pipedream. Varnes, Lampe, Milos could all be a bust, but that's irrelevant. The point is we would be under the cap the same year Kobe (if not in jail) will be a free agent. Other free agents that year will be Marbury, D. Stoudamire, Kenyon Martin, Spree, Desmond Mason, Stromile Swift, Payton, Malone, Camby, Steve Nash, Illgauskas, Darius Miles, Donyell Marshall, Antoine Walker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff.
My guest is this will put us 12 mill under the cap. Plus midlevel exception of 5 mill, and veterens exception of 2 million. We will have enough money to sign two of these guys. One big guy one second tier guy. My pick Kobe/ Illgauskas. If Kobe' in jail then it's Shareef/Illgauskas
Real GM trade # 1158253
The OTHER side of the fence

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