Posted by TMS:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by TMS:

I don't remember anyone posting that they did not like the trade because of Zach's contract.

that was probably 1 of the main reasons why people hated the trade... go back & look it up.

Yeah, the worst part about the trade was that this dude's contract set us back by putting us over the cap past 2009. Couple that with the fact that many questioned his compatibility with the current team (most often questioning his ability to mesh with Curry) and the trade was a no brainer. And by no brainer, I mean you'd have to have no brain to make it. Thanks Isiah.

However, I see where BRIGGS is coming from. Trading Zach in the proposed Philly deal is the ultimate case of selling low. I'd give Philly Zach straight up for the 16 pick. There's no way we drop 10 spaces in the draft to unload Zach.

I rather let him play and try to unload him later when other teams are panicking. Some GM is going to eventually gonna take a swing on this guy. We hate him, but he puts up numbers, he's young, he's played on a winner. He's not completely worthless. A desperate GM might pull the trigger and give us a better deal.

[Edited by - eViL on 06-06-2008 12:28 AM]

i disagree... getting rid of Zach's cap killing contract, adding a good role player off the bench signed at reasonable dollars & still holding onto a mid 1st round pick is not a bad deal for us in any way, shape or form... there's no guarantees anyone we pick at #6 is going to be a stud either way... if Walsh feels there's value at the lower picks enough to make this deal i have a hard time being opposed to it.

btw, can anyone tell me why this discussion couldn't have been continued on rain's original thread to begin with? do you have that much need for validation that you needed to post your thoughts on the same exact topic on a separate thread BRIGGS?

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=27065&page=1

Honestly, I rather keep Zach all season and be terrible and get another top 5 pick then trade out of the best draft position that we've had in many years. It's been sickening to watch this team trade away picks that could have led to Brandon Roy, Randy Foye, Rudy Gay, or LaMarcus Aldridge.

BRIGGS showing even more of his classless arrogant side... hey a-hole, don't bash on a forum you've never even bothered to check out to begin with... all the members who post on my forums are good people & though it's a small community everyone's always respectful to each other.

besides, i'm not quite as desperate for internet validation as you are to go to the trouble of creating aliases douchewad... if you don't like my reply how about you go F yourself?

I think you guys should figure out a meeting point and fight. Cage match. It is the only way to settle things.

Posted by eViL:

I think you guys should figure out a meeting point and fight. Cage match. It is the only way to settle things.

i'll be back in NY in July... book it Don King.

Posted by TMS:

BRIGGS showing even more of his classless arrogant side... hey a-hole, don't bash on a forum you've never even bothered to check out to begin with... all the members who post on my forums are good people & though it's a small community everyone's always respectful to each other.

besides, i'm not quite as desperate for internet validation as you are to go to the trouble of creating aliases douchewad... if you don't like my reply how about you go F yourself?

99% of the time I keep to the subject--I don't know why you made a post telling me to post elsewhere--I rarely have trouble with anyone and I have never used a swear word once aimed at an indiviudal. No need to bicker--you go post what you want where you want you are ghost to me.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

a scrub and a significantly lower pick. This is like Joe Barry carrol for Kevin Mchale type of stuff. It's NOT like we are opening up cap space for a 28 yO Steve Nash to walk in next year--no--this is to HOPE we can get under the cap in 2 years and then HOPE again a top tier FA will spurn less money to come on to a team with a purged roster.

If we do this deal---we havent changed a bit --The Sixers will take Eric Gordon and he will be a star on their roster and Mo Cheeks will have Randolph playing 20-10 but the way he did when Portland was in the WESTERN CONFERNCE FINALS. Funny thing is about our roster the only two players to get that far was Zach and Malik.

We better really sit back and think about it because this has the potential to bite us just as HARD than ANY trade Isiah has made possibly harder since its a division rival.

When you look at a fans +- of a deal and you see Knick fans mainly on the - side and Philly fans [who are brutal] on a 70% approval side--if you have a smart GM who has worked hard with Rod Thorn willing to go with this and Mo Cheeks who has coached Zach

we are walking into a scker deal

Talk about panic trading to see possible FA room in 2 years.

This has NEVER been done in the NBA no trade is a comp to this--so they better frikin think VERY hard about what they are getting themselves into.

When are you going to adequately show there's significantly less value in gaining two picks between 10-20 vs the 6th pick? You've yet to do it and now you're just scrambling and throwing a temper tantrum.

The deal is moving 6-16 not your made up schmeal. Once you move 6-16 you lose ANY opportunity at

Mayo Bayless Gordon Westbrook Alexander Randolph Lopez--that is huge. You are sliding back to second tier players.

Just look at the talent we LOST by giving up our high lottrey picks--so we should continue the path????

Let's go by our Mock Draft. I'd wager any amount of money you want that CDR will have a greater impact in the NBA than Anthony Randolph.

You like CDR more than Eric Gordon?

No but I think Eric Gordon could be like Clyde Drexler and CDR like Rip Hamilton IMO I'd prefer Eric Gordon over CDR but I'm not going to think there's this extreme degree of separation between the two. Especially when we're talking about dumping EY Winslow.

Eric Gordon Clyde Drexler--ok Ill stop there. I think the concept is simple--the history is there for anyone to see. We have blown solid pick after solid pick in the last 6 years which if executed and used would yield a great young team. The answer--simple--- keep the pick--learn from past mistakes--we want cap space BUT don't overpay for it.

Well it's a matter of you over valuing the 6th pick vs 16 IMO. Dude you don't know everything there is to know about draft prospects no matter how you nailed the Bynum pick from 3yrs ago and a couple picks from previous yrs. It doesn't make you a Guru at anything. I showed you about 15-20 players who have been picked over the past decade practically, who were picked 10 and below proving to be absolute studs. Donnie Walsh picked Danny Granger at 18, we picked Lee at 30. I'd do Zach and 6 for Evans and Lee Granger caliber player all day every day. If Zach is such a stud statistically and we lose on the talent end, well that only assures us of maybe being in a better draft position next yr, which IMO will prove to have more Franchise Caliber talent than this yr's draft. Think outside the box sometimes instead of being in a Briggs Twilight Zone 24/7.

btw, that was Ghostface Killa in case y'all didn't know.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

a scrub and a significantly lower pick. This is like Joe Barry carrol for Kevin Mchale type of stuff. It's NOT like we are opening up cap space for a 28 yO Steve Nash to walk in next year--no--this is to HOPE we can get under the cap in 2 years and then HOPE again a top tier FA will spurn less money to come on to a team with a purged roster.

If we do this deal---we havent changed a bit --The Sixers will take Eric Gordon and he will be a star on their roster and Mo Cheeks will have Randolph playing 20-10 but the way he did when Portland was in the WESTERN CONFERNCE FINALS. Funny thing is about our roster the only two players to get that far was Zach and Malik.

We better really sit back and think about it because this has the potential to bite us just as HARD than ANY trade Isiah has made possibly harder since its a division rival.

When you look at a fans +- of a deal and you see Knick fans mainly on the - side and Philly fans [who are brutal] on a 70% approval side--if you have a smart GM who has worked hard with Rod Thorn willing to go with this and Mo Cheeks who has coached Zach

we are walking into a scker deal

Talk about panic trading to see possible FA room in 2 years.

This has NEVER been done in the NBA no trade is a comp to this--so they better frikin think VERY hard about what they are getting themselves into.

When are you going to adequately show there's significantly less value in gaining two picks between 10-20 vs the 6th pick? You've yet to do it and now you're just scrambling and throwing a temper tantrum.

The deal is moving 6-16 not your made up schmeal. Once you move 6-16 you lose ANY opportunity at

Mayo Bayless Gordon Westbrook Alexander Randolph Lopez--that is huge. You are sliding back to second tier players.

Just look at the talent we LOST by giving up our high lottrey picks--so we should continue the path????

Let's go by our Mock Draft. I'd wager any amount of money you want that CDR will have a greater impact in the NBA than Anthony Randolph.

You like CDR more than Eric Gordon?

No but I think Eric Gordon could be like Clyde Drexler and CDR like Rip Hamilton IMO I'd prefer Eric Gordon over CDR but I'm not going to think there's this extreme degree of separation between the two. Especially when we're talking about dumping EY Winslow.

Eric Gordon Clyde Drexler--ok Ill stop there. I think the concept is simple--the history is there for anyone to see. We have blown solid pick after solid pick in the last 6 years which if executed and used would yield a great young team. The answer--simple--- keep the pick--learn from past mistakes--we want cap space BUT don't overpay for it.

Well it's a matter of you over valuing the 6th pick vs 16 IMO. Dude you don't know everything there is to know about draft prospects no matter how you nailed the Bynum pick from 3yrs ago and a couple picks from previous yrs. It doesn't make you a Guru at anything. I showed you about 15-20 players who have been picked over the past decade practically, who were picked 10 and below proving to be absolute studs. Donnie Walsh picked Danny Granger at 18, we picked Lee at 30. I'd do Zach and 6 for Evans and Lee Granger caliber player all day every day. If Zach is such a stud statistically and we lose on the talent end, well that only assures us of maybe being in a better draft position next yr, which IMO will prove to have more Franchise Caliber talent than this yr's draft. Think outside the box sometimes instead of being in a Briggs Twilight Zone 24/7.

I'll leave Isiah Thomas to think outside the box---he did enough of that to destroy the franchise.


I would keep it simple

Sign David Lee 6 yrs 48mm
Take the BPA with 6
If I can swap Zach Randolph or anyone else I don't want in a reasonable deal--I will do it but I wont panic trade or overpay for cap space.
I want the team to be more aggresive looking at guys who havent faired well on other teams --like a Patrick Obryant etc.. and really check out the SL to see if there are some unrestricted guys who really mesh with what we are doing.
If I cant move anyone--Id like Mike D to work with what is here to make them better--hes good at that.

This has nothing to do with guru or anything else. It's called a smart business plan.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

a scrub and a significantly lower pick. This is like Joe Barry carrol for Kevin Mchale type of stuff. It's NOT like we are opening up cap space for a 28 yO Steve Nash to walk in next year--no--this is to HOPE we can get under the cap in 2 years and then HOPE again a top tier FA will spurn less money to come on to a team with a purged roster.

If we do this deal---we havent changed a bit --The Sixers will take Eric Gordon and he will be a star on their roster and Mo Cheeks will have Randolph playing 20-10 but the way he did when Portland was in the WESTERN CONFERNCE FINALS. Funny thing is about our roster the only two players to get that far was Zach and Malik.

We better really sit back and think about it because this has the potential to bite us just as HARD than ANY trade Isiah has made possibly harder since its a division rival.

When you look at a fans +- of a deal and you see Knick fans mainly on the - side and Philly fans [who are brutal] on a 70% approval side--if you have a smart GM who has worked hard with Rod Thorn willing to go with this and Mo Cheeks who has coached Zach

we are walking into a scker deal

Talk about panic trading to see possible FA room in 2 years.

This has NEVER been done in the NBA no trade is a comp to this--so they better frikin think VERY hard about what they are getting themselves into.

When are you going to adequately show there's significantly less value in gaining two picks between 10-20 vs the 6th pick? You've yet to do it and now you're just scrambling and throwing a temper tantrum.

The deal is moving 6-16 not your made up schmeal. Once you move 6-16 you lose ANY opportunity at

Mayo Bayless Gordon Westbrook Alexander Randolph Lopez--that is huge. You are sliding back to second tier players.

Just look at the talent we LOST by giving up our high lottrey picks--so we should continue the path????

Let's go by our Mock Draft. I'd wager any amount of money you want that CDR will have a greater impact in the NBA than Anthony Randolph.

You like CDR more than Eric Gordon?

No but I think Eric Gordon could be like Clyde Drexler and CDR like Rip Hamilton IMO I'd prefer Eric Gordon over CDR but I'm not going to think there's this extreme degree of separation between the two. Especially when we're talking about dumping EY Winslow.

Eric Gordon Clyde Drexler--ok Ill stop there. I think the concept is simple--the history is there for anyone to see. We have blown solid pick after solid pick in the last 6 years which if executed and used would yield a great young team. The answer--simple--- keep the pick--learn from past mistakes--we want cap space BUT don't overpay for it.

Well it's a matter of you over valuing the 6th pick vs 16 IMO. Dude you don't know everything there is to know about draft prospects no matter how you nailed the Bynum pick from 3yrs ago and a couple picks from previous yrs. It doesn't make you a Guru at anything. I showed you about 15-20 players who have been picked over the past decade practically, who were picked 10 and below proving to be absolute studs. Donnie Walsh picked Danny Granger at 18, we picked Lee at 30. I'd do Zach and 6 for Evans and Lee Granger caliber player all day every day. If Zach is such a stud statistically and we lose on the talent end, well that only assures us of maybe being in a better draft position next yr, which IMO will prove to have more Franchise Caliber talent than this yr's draft. Think outside the box sometimes instead of being in a Briggs Twilight Zone 24/7.

I'll leave Isiah Thomas to think outside the box---he did enough of that to destroy the franchise.


I would keep it simple

Sign David Lee 6 yrs 48mm
Take the BPA with 6
If I can swap Zach Randolph or anyone else I don't want in a reasonable deal--I will do it but I wont panic trade or overpay for cap space.
I want the team to be more aggresive looking at guys who havent faired well on other teams --like a Patrick Obryant etc.. and really check out the SL to see if there are some unrestricted guys who really mesh with what we are doing.
If I cant move anyone--Id like Mike D to work with what is here to make them better--hes good at that.

This has nothing to do with guru or anything else. It's called a smart business plan.

First of all Lee can't sign a 6yr deal unless he became a UFA and I've told you this already. He can sign a 5yr deal extension or accept a QO from us to become a UFA with hopes of getting a richer deal. You also aren't signing Lee for anything less than $50mil. Everything else is a huge Risk or not doable as to what you want to do.

Sign David Lee to whatever the guidelines call for. Im not offering David Lee 10mm$--he's going to have to take 8 and accept it or I would seriously look into trading him.
As for anything else risky trading your number 6 pick and Zach randolph for pick 16 and Reggie evans sounds VERY risky. Lets go to 2006 Pick 6 Branden Roy--aka new generation superstar to be. Pick 16 Rodney Carey--nice looking high flying athlete who has been nothing in the league you also had Rudy gay available. I can go down the line Y-y--is there going to be good players found in round 2 and late 1 yes--but the odds change dramatically as you move down. Moving from 6-16 is a dramatic move. If Mo Cheeks --who coached Randolph longer than he was here[remember zach randolph only played 65 games for the Knicks] If Mo cheeks thinks its a good deal--then maybe it is--for Philly? Isnt it risky to give a 20-10 26 YO PF and your high lottery pick to a team already better than you? I think the slate has to be clean for Zach--this whole gig by Isiah was brutal. Home fans always think every player sckls

according to many everyone scks crawford nate curry zach lee--the whole team

and now you think outside the box--lets say somehow we pull off cap space in 2010 --what players do we have to surround a top tier FA? lebron james has more money than he knows what to do with money is NOT going to motivate guys like Kobe MJ or Lebron--winning does. and if we haev a no talent purged roster--they are not coming here--the 5% chance that we may haev had anyway.