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OT:Flip Saunders Once Again Proves He Isn't Larry Brown
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BigC
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5/31/2008  10:50 AM
Flip lost to a better and healthier team. Is it Flips fault that his team was banged up and made key errors in final minutes of games? Larry knew the Pistons would not be able to repeat this why he left.

Also people that feel Flip did a horrible job coaching do you really feel Larry Brown would have gotten this same Pistons team to beat the Celtics this year?
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McK1
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5/31/2008  10:51 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

I mean how bad of a coach is he that he gets 3 ECF appearances and blows them all?

Why did Dumars hire him?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-30-2008 10:24 PM]

a) puts him in the category of very good but not yet great.

b) his approach to the game is based around fundamentals and his teams year in and year out are competitive.
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MS
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5/31/2008  10:51 AM
Please Larry got lucky, that team was down 3-2 to the nets and going to be elimated and kidd got injured, the ran up against an injured pacers team and malone wasn;t himself. Not to mention Larry had wallace in his prime when he was the best defender in the league and a younger team, with okur off the bench. The would have lost to the heat had wade not injured himself. there is a lot of luck involved.

That said both those coaches coached differently in the postseason and didn't to a great job
Uptown
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5/31/2008  10:54 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

Nothing against Flip but the retread policy of hiring guys who don't get their teams over the top frustrates me. Flip and Mike D' both had teams that should have won championships with the rosters that they had but didn't. I think guys like Skiles and Carlisle need to be given more time and support from management. D'Antoni was the wrong guy for the Knicks. Aside from my personal opinion I have not heard any expert endorse the hiring that obviously was Dolan influenced. If you have watched the playoffs you know that there wasn't a team that didn't play stellar defense in the conference finals. Defense is the easiest and the most influential thing a coach can provide for a team. Unfortunately the Knicks have what I consider the Ralph Nader of basketball. An extreme offensive minded coach who does not see the benefit of coaching defense. History has shown that teams with this philosophy ( see Doug Moe and Don Nelson) do not compete for championships. The Knicks already are one of the worst defensive teams in the league and lack on offense. I personally feel that they needed a guy who had long practices, taught character, taught team work, and taught defense, more than they needed a guy who relied on the players professionalism and had short practices based on the need of his players.


This post lacks any type of objectivity and is dripping in your own personal likes and dislikes. Why do you call Flip a retread that doesn't get his teams over the top, yet you endorse less successful retreads like Skiles and Carlise and claim they should get more time?

I know what it is...the perception is that Skiles and Carlise focuses more on defense which is supposed to the be the blueprint to winning 'Chips' so they should get more time despite the fact that BOTH have underachieved with their teams. D'Antoni and Flip have proven to be much better coaches than these two.
Nalod
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5/31/2008  7:03 PM
Maybe flip go the most of that team. Conf finals is not bad. Very profitable.

Im not impressed with Celts as they seem to make every hard. Even when winning. But who am I to say, I jut freaking can't stand them.
djsunyc
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5/31/2008  7:43 PM
does it really matter about the cirumstances a team wins a title?

did it really matter that ewing was hurt when the spurs won their first title? NO.

did it really matter that they were down 3-2 to the nets and came back to win b/c kidd got hurt? NO.

knicks finals appearance in jordan era came the year he retired. does it matter? NO.

using injuries/circumstances/etc is all bullcrap...you win a title = you earned it.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-31-2008 7:44 PM]
TrueBlue
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5/31/2008  7:54 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

does it really matter about the cirumstances a team wins a title?

did it really matter that ewing was hurt when the spurs won their first title? NO.

did it really matter that they were down 3-2 to the nets and came back to win b/c kidd got hurt? NO.

knicks in the title in 1994, would anyone care it was b/c jordan was retired? NO.

using injuries/circumstances/etc is all bullcrap...you win a title = you earned it.


Yeah trying to discredit what LB did there cracks me up. The guy got them to back-to-back Finals appearances and came within 1 game of winning back-to-back Finals, against two Western Conference Dynasties. Flip took over a veteran team who knew what it took to get there and proved they could do it while in an Leastern Conference atmosphere that couldn't be any worse the past 3yrs until maybe this yr, if you include Boston's presence and their impact on the conference, and he failed each time. They lost to the Heat when the Bulls gave the Heat a tougher series prior and Detroit owned home court. They lost to Cleveland who's nothing more than Lebron and a team of MISHITS, once again owning home court advantage and now Boston, after stealing a game on the road proceed to lose two in their own gym. When reflecting back on LB's last yr stint with them, LB was coaching that team with his eyes set on another Franchise, you could say he coached them to the Finals with his eyes closed. Meanwhile Flip Saunders Basketball was ALL-IN and 3 times not one Finals appearance. I think that speaks volumes what LB did for that franchise and what he instilled in them while he was there.
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playa2
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5/31/2008  10:14 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by BigC:

Okur not being resigned is the main reason why the Pistons have problems not repeating not Larry Brown.

Yeah and let's forget about Darko.



All joking aside, LB had Ben Wallace at his peak. He was a game changing defensive center.


I have a funny feeling that the Darko drafting and the flip saunders hiring wasn't Joe Dumars call.


[Edited by - playa2 on 31-05-2008 22:16]
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BasketballJones
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5/31/2008  11:33 PM
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Panos
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6/1/2008  1:17 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by BigC:

Okur not being resigned is the main reason why the Pistons have problems not repeating not Larry Brown.

Yeah and let's forget about Darko.

All joking aside, LB had Ben Wallace at his peak. He was a game changing defensive center.


True but that's like saying Phil Jackson has always had a beast or beasts on his team as he coached to Finals appearances and championships.


No I'm just saying that its a different team. Different character and defensive intensity out of BWallace and McKnees.
DarkKnicks
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6/1/2008  4:34 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

does it really matter about the cirumstances a team wins a title?
[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-31-2008 7:44 PM]
I could not disagree with you more. This is of course just a personal opinion, but for me, OF COURSE they do matter, sometimes even more than the results themselves. In the end, if Doc Rivers ends up winning the championship, will yo consider him a better coach than Rick Adelman? Will Ray allen be a better player than Reggie Miller if he wins the championship? I can accept that some of you dont care about the circumstances, but is not so bad to also accept that some people do. And in this case especially, they do matter a lot IMO.

What cracks me up is people trying to overrated LB constantly everytime the Pistons lose in the conf finals, as if they have managed to reach them easily under LB. The most credit I give Larry Brown for, is for reaching the NBA Finals (and doing a brilliant regular season) with those terrible Sixers, and they lost the finals. But to me thats his highlight as an NBA coach because of the circumstances. Phil Jackson WITHOUT Jordan almost defeated us in the 1994 playoffs and won 2 games less than the season before in the regular season. Dont you think the circumstances mattered then?

Its ok that many people just look at who won and who lost, but it does not makes their analysis nor their views any better nor more accurate. In fact, I would say they are more simple.

[Edited by - DarkKnicks on 01-06-2008 10:34 AM]
Ira
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6/1/2008  6:14 AM
Flip is a good coach. If you add Ben in his prime to that team and a younger version of Rasheed, they would have won that series. It's to Flip's credit that an aging team without a real center got as far as it did.
Uptown
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6/1/2008  11:44 AM
Posted by Ira:

Flip is a good coach. If you add Ben in his prime to that team and a younger version of Rasheed, they would have won that series. It's to Flip's credit that an aging team without a real center got as far as it did.

Agreed. That team had run its course which is one of the reasons Next-Town-Brown jumped ship. Besides, The Shaq and Wade lead Heat and the 66 win Boston team were better than the teams Detroit beat in 04 and 05.

And for those giving Detroit credit for coming within a few baskets of winning back-to-back titles, maybe we should also acknowlede Wade being hurt in game 6 & 7 in 05. If not for the injury, It would have been the Heat who would have appeared in back-to-back finals.
TheGame
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6/1/2008  1:28 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by BigC:

Okur not being resigned is the main reason why the Pistons have problems not repeating not Larry Brown.

Yeah and let's forget about Darko.

Dumars turned Darko into Stuckey, which shows just how good a GM he is because Stuckey looks like he can become a 20 pt scorer in this league. While most GM's would have been too scared to admit they made a mistake, Dumars saw that Darko was not going to be anything but an average player and traded him for cap relief and 1st round pick. That is what I hope we do with Curry.

As far as Flip, I think the Pistons were looking really good but that Boston team is just tough. Once Ray Allen found his shot, there really was not much the Pistons could do against them. Boston was simply the more talented team and the Pistons had some injury problems. Plus, Wallace did his normal disappearing act in a deciding game.

[Edited by - thegame on 01-06-2008 13:32]
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OT:Flip Saunders Once Again Proves He Isn't Larry Brown
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