Posted by fishmike:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by joec32033:


I'm not saying NOT to get rid of him, but just that it's not so dire that we have to overpay someone to take him off our hands.

I agree. What is the rush? Maybe Zach has a good start to the season and becomes a bit more marketable. Why do we need to purge him NOW? Seems like a panic move. Buy low sell high. Zach's value cant be any lower.

Sure it can. He can not get along with D'Antonio and be a pain in the ass all season while demanding a trade. Right now you might be able to get a team to believe that last year was just a huge cluster**** with Isiah and you can't judge Zach by it. But if things go badly with Zach under D'Antonio, who is supposed to be a player's coach, then his trade value is pretty much worthless and you'd be lucky if you could package him for just a 1st rd pick without having to take back a bad contract in return.

well thats one differene between this year's management and last year's. Isiah would assume he can fix anything and that Zach will turn from sourpuss to all star. DW will actually communicate with his coach and see these situations before they progress to that degree.

I know its hard to get your head around but we actually have good management now. Thats not meant to be an insult either.. most of us are used to the worst possible which is usually what you get when ISiah is in charge.

Zebo is actually competitive and wants to win. He's also got pride. I am not looking to keep the guy but he likes to play. He also did NOT like Isiah. Way more upside than downside to keeping him

You mean the way Walsh and D'Antonio weren't able to keep Jermaine O'Neal and Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson from wanting out and making it publicly known? And those guys aren't anywhere near the cancer that Randolph is. You seem to think that this management team is above reproach and can even prevent a notorious malcontent like Randolph from being unhappy. If Randolph becomes unhappy, there isn't much that those guys can do to keep it from getting out. I don't even put that on them, I put that on Randolph.

If you think that there is "way more upside than downside to keeping him", then why are you not looking to keep him?

Posted by s3231:

Fishmike is right. The Suns coaching staff wanted Joe Johnson back badly. They didn't know if he was worth the contract he got, but they still wanted him back and tried to convince Sarver to re-sign him. In the end, it was Sarver that decided he wouldn't give up the money necessary (Atlanta frontloaded like $19 million for JJ) to bring back Joe because he thought of him as a "4th wheel" behind Nash, Amare, and Marion.

Marion, on the other hand, wanted out of Phoenix at one point because he felt like he wasn't appreciated. That was ridiculous though because Marion has always been jealous of Nash and Amare (the two that get more attention). The Suns treated him very well and D'Antoni, especially, was very good about complimenting him when Nash was getting more attention. Its not D'Antoni's fault that Marion essentially had to be treated like a kid to keep him from being upset.

So you mean just because you supposedly have good management, it can't stop players from being disgruntled and wanting out? Even more so when the player in question is a noted malcontent, like Randolph.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by fishmike:

the point is none of those guys quit playing. Maybe a little bla bla bla to the media but they didnt sit out games unwilling to play hard with towels drapped over their heads. Has any player under MikeD or Walsh ever done that?

Have they ever had a malcontent like Randolph before?

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by s3231:

Fishmike is right. The Suns coaching staff wanted Joe Johnson back badly. They didn't know if he was worth the contract he got, but they still wanted him back and tried to convince Sarver to re-sign him. In the end, it was Sarver that decided he wouldn't give up the money necessary (Atlanta frontloaded like $19 million for JJ) to bring back Joe because he thought of him as a "4th wheel" behind Nash, Amare, and Marion.

Marion, on the other hand, wanted out of Phoenix at one point because he felt like he wasn't appreciated. That was ridiculous though because Marion has always been jealous of Nash and Amare (the two that get more attention). The Suns treated him very well and D'Antoni, especially, was very good about complimenting him when Nash was getting more attention. Its not D'Antoni's fault that Marion essentially had to be treated like a kid to keep him from being upset.

So you mean just because you supposedly have good management, it can't stop players from being disgruntled and wanting out? Even more so when the player in question is a noted malcontent, like Randolph.

Marion wanted out at one point, but if you remember correctly, he backed off a bit and played well for the Suns. Lets get this straight, Marion didn't like that he wasn't "the man" there but he loved that franchise and even thought it was his "destiny" to be there. One of the reasons why he loved it was D'Antoni. Good management is what kept Marion on the floor playing at such a productive level despite his mental makeup. Not many other teams would have handled the situation as well as the Suns did. D'Antoni knew Marion wanted to feel appreciated, so even when Nash collected his 2nd MVP award (which made Marion jealous), he tried to praise Marion for his play during the playoffs.

The Suns management did the right thing with Marion. They didn't panic and just trade him for nothing (they would not have been able to get Shaq before the season for Marion). Instead, they waited till close to the deadline and traded a malcontent for a guy that they felt would make them a championship team.

Zach is no Marion, but overpaying just to get rid of him would set us back even more right now. We got good management and we got a good coach that will try to get the most out of Zach and put him in a position where he can succeed. We aren't going to make a horrible trade just to get rid of Zach, that makes no sense.

[Edited by - s3231 on 05-30-2008 3:42 PM]

Walsh said the Knicks could use in this draft a playmaker that makes others better and a shot blocker.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by islesfan:

I would be perfectly happy if they used it simply to dump Zach. He's the biggest albatross on this team, on the court and on the salary cap. Isiah screwed up this roster so badly that sacrifices will have to be made just to clean it up. Walsh has to be proactive and can't just sit back.

That is just CRAZY! You would give up Mayo, Bayless, Gordon, or whoever JUST to get rid of Zach? Panicking and wanting change NOW instead of biding our time is just what we don't need to do. We have 2 years before JamesWadeAnthony derby.

Mayo will be gone, Bayless is a shoot first tweener PG and Gordon is a 6'3 SG. It's not panicking, it's planning and rebuilding. Yeah it sucks that we have to seriously consider these options but with the roster that Isiah put together, we have no choice if we want to purge it of bad contracts and terrible fits.

Wasn't the great John Starks like 6'3''

Posted by islesfan:

I would be perfectly happy if they used it simply to dump Zach. He's the biggest albatross on this team, on the court and on the salary cap. Isiah screwed up this roster so badly that sacrifices will have to be made just to clean it up. Walsh has to be proactive and can't just sit back.