Posted by TMS:

they run the same length, Zach makes a few hundred thousand more per year... the difference can easily be made up in cash, neither come off the cap til the end of 2010/11 season.

[Edited by - TMS on 05-30-2008 12:03 AM]

Exactly why this deal is pointless TMS, respectfully. Isiah was looking for something, anything else to make this worthwhile for the Knicks. The 20th pick, Lina Kleiza.... ANYTHING. Denver didn't want to bite. OK no problem. You move on. I had no problem with it. I was glad we were holding out for something else. Look, Zeke was a boob but sorry fellas not this time. Nobody thinks Zach Randolph is the right fit here but the bottom line is, compared to Kenyon Martin, Zach's 4 years younger and the more productive player at this stage of their careers. Keeping that in mind - When it comes down to it - who will be easier to trade with those similar contracts, Zach or Kenyon Martin? Remember, the Nuggets actually wanted Zach Randolph, they just didn't want to pony up anything to sweeten the deal. My bet is that Kenyon Martin will not generate any interest around the league until his contract becomes much more manageable in a few years. Even though he did manage to play 71 games last year, the guy isn't anything close to what he used to be. Provided a little shot-blocking here and there last season (1.2 a game) - but not the big-time shot-blocker you're looking for TMS and definitely not at this stage of his career.

If Kenyon's deal ran a year or 2 shorter you make the deal. If they included Linas Kleiza or the 20th pick you make the deal. Not straight up. No thank you Denver. Glad Zeke didn't blow that one. People around here would've been screaming for weeks - at least I would've.

Posted by Finestrg:

Posted by TMS:

they run the same length, Zach makes a few hundred thousand more per year... the difference can easily be made up in cash, neither come off the cap til the end of 2010/11 season.

[Edited by - TMS on 05-30-2008 12:03 AM]

Exactly why this deal is pointless TMS, respectfully. Isiah was looking for something, anything else to make this worthwhile for the Knicks. The 20th pick, Lina Kleiza.... ANYTHING. Denver didn't want to bite. OK no problem. You move on. I had no problem with it. I was glad we were holding out for something else. Look, Zeke was a boob but sorry fellas not this time. Nobody thinks Zach Randolph is the right fit here but the bottom line is, compared to Kenyon Martin, Zach's 4 years younger and the more productive player at this stage of their careers. Keeping that in mind - When it comes down to it - who will be easier to trade with those similar contracts, Zach or Kenyon Martin? Remember, the Nuggets actually wanted Zach Randolph, they just didn't want to pony up anything to sweeten the deal. My bet is that Kenyon Martin will not generate any interest around the league until his contract becomes much more manageable in a few years. Even though he did manage to play 71 games last year, the guy isn't anything close to what he used to be. Provided a little shot-blocking here and there last season (1.2 a game) - but not the big-time shot-blocker you're looking for TMS and definitely not at this stage of his career.

If Kenyon's deal ran a year or 2 shorter you make the deal. If they included Linas Kleiza or the 20th pick you make the deal. Not straight up. No thank you Denver. Glad Zeke didn't blow that one. People around here would've been screaming for weeks - at least I would've.

I'd do Zach for KMart and the 20th pick.

Our main problem is we still have too many players. We have to start shucking some and upgrading others, imo. Personally I think we have at least 1 suitor for both Curry and Randolph.

I think in my ideal little world:

Incoming Players
Kenyon Martin
6-9 PF from Cincinnati
12.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.3 apg in 30.4 minutes
T.J. Ford
5-11 PG from Texas
12.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 6.1 apg in 23.5 minutes
Jorge Garbajosa
6-9 PF from Spain (Foreign)
3.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.5 minutes
17 pick
20 pick

Outgoing Players
Zach Randolph
6-9 PF from Michigan State
17.6 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 32.5 minutes
Eddy Curry
6-11 C from Thornwood (HS)
13.2 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 25.9 minutes
Renaldo Balkman
6-7 SF from South Carolina
3.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 14.6 minutes

Denver Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +5.3 ppg, +3.8 rpg, and +0.7 apg.
Incoming Players
Zach Randolph
6-9 PF from Michigan State
17.6 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 32.5 minutes
Outgoing Players
Kenyon Martin
6-9 PF from Cincinnati
12.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.3 apg in 30.4 minutes
20th pick

Toronto Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +1.5 ppg, +3.9 rpg, and -5.4 apg.
Incoming Players
Eddy Curry
6-11 C from Thornwood (HS)
13.2 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 25.9 minutes
Renaldo Balkman
6-7 SF from South Carolina
3.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 14.6 minutes
Outgoing Players
T.J. Ford
5-11 PG from Texas
12.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 6.1 apg in 23.5 minutes
Jorge Garbajosa
6-9 PF from Spain (Foreign)
3.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.5 minutes
17th pick.

You now have:
Martin
Lee
Chandler
Crawford
Ford

Leandro Robinson as the sixth man.
and 3 picks in this draft at 6, 17, 20.

Now you can package those 3 picks to move up and get 1 player (Miami gets all 3 and we get the #2?), or package the 17 and 20 and maybe move up into the top 10 or top 12 and you can grab Mayo and Jordan or whoever.

Posted by TMS:

Finestrg, IMO K-Mart is the more productive of the 2 when you consider he can play on both ends of the floor & how he addresses the overall balance of this team... Zach to me is a blackhole in the post that prohibits other guys on this team from playing to their fullest abilities & takes away touches while not being any help whatsoever on the defensive end... i'd give up his 18 & 10 for KMart's 12 / 7 / 1 w/solid D anyday of the week... Zach bring more negatives than positives to this roster, it's just not a good fit for a guy w/his skillset... if we still had KT & Marbury was still the guy handling the ball then i think running those 3 in a pick & roll half court set could work, but not now & not w/the guys this team is looking to go forward with... just my own personal preference... KMart would fit in much much better in an uptempo style game than Zach & allows both Curry & Lee to be more involved in the Knicks' offense... i think that helps us more in the long run than holding onto him does.

[Edited by - TMS on 05-30-2008 2:22 PM]

Good points as always TMS and you're right, overall team play and chemistry probably would improve some (and I'm with you dude, I don't particularly like Randolph's game much myself - black hole is a perfect term for what he is) although to be honest, I really couldn't give a damn about making life easy for Eddy Curry and that's basically what we're talking about when we mention these two bananas in the same breath right? Curry's basically a black hole himself and I'd love to unload him as well. Making Curry happy and comfortable and letting him labor out there to score 20 points and basically do nothing else is def. not the answer in my book. Also, the big question is would that 1 for 1 trade improve the Knicks in the win column? Bottom line for me is - no it wouldn't. And we'd then be saddled with an older (by 4 years), less productive (at least statistically and stats equals value around the league) and injury-prone player than the one we're already stuck with for the same horrendous contract - essentially a player that will be even harder to unload than Zach himself. As of right now I don't think Kenyon Martin at that price has any trade value around the league whatsoever. Denver, on the other hand, wanted Randolph. I just think that eventually we could do better even if it means picking up a late draft pick from someone, taking back a slightly shorter contract, etc. - hey it's something. And I think that's what Thomas was thinking when he reportly nixed the 1 for 1 deal. And hey, even if there turns out to be no interest in Randolph this season, you figure that 1 for 1 trade with Denver will still be an option that the two teams could re-visit. But now with Walsh and D'Antoni at the controls lets see if we can do better. I think even the Bucks showed some interest in Zach at the deadline....