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islesfan
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5/13/2008  1:44 AM
Posted by FrenchKnicks:

Can you guys stop believe everything you read in the papers ?

I'm trying not to but the Knicks are holding a press conference at 1pm today to verify it.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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islesfan
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5/13/2008  1:49 AM
Walsh also said he wanted a good defensive team. So much for that.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
JohnWallace44
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5/13/2008  1:50 AM
The big question is who we're getting in the draft. If its a big time player, maybe we just stand pat.

What if we're "stuck" with one of the lesser talents like Randolph, Mayo, Gordon etc.?

Knowing that one of our #1's is going to Utah soon... do you just write off the franchise for four or five years?

To do that we have to trade Lee and Nate this year for picks. Knicks fans I talk to don't get that at all. They think that we can build on those guys. If we're going for cap room in 2010, those guys are gone.

What I'd like to see is the Knicks making trades of players with 1 and 3 years left for players with 2 and 2 years left so that we'd essentially take a year off of the clock. This is probably tougher than it looks on paper though because Lee and Nate are good, but not that good where you'd take back Randolph. It would require taking back players that are other teams' Jerome James types. You're asking for the franchise to be a disaster that makes the past couple of years look like championship teams.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
PhilinLA
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5/13/2008  1:53 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Walsh also said he wanted a good defensive team. So much for that.
you really don't get the pace thing or that the Suns, relative to the Knicks were more than twice as effective defensively.

http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
GKFv2
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5/13/2008  1:53 AM
Uh, you just advocated a trade that would help nothing. Barbosa and Diaw are decent players and good role players but they aren't worth trading a $20 million expiring contract for and killing your cap for it. Their contracts run through 2012.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
dodger78
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5/13/2008  1:54 AM
Posted by FrenchKnicks:

Can you guys stop believe everything you read in the papers ?

Amen!!!! Speculation!!! Pure Speculation!!!
EnySpree
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5/13/2008  2:15 AM
Come on man......please do not give this nonsense any life. I don't like either player......but some of you guys at the very least would have loved to get barbosa about a year or so ago.

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islesfan
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5/13/2008  2:19 AM
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by islesfan:

Walsh also said he wanted a good defensive team. So much for that.
you really don't get the pace thing or that the Suns, relative to the Knicks were more than twice as effective defensively.

Over the last 2 years, the Knicks have been one of the worst coached teams in NBA history, especially on the defensive end. So why would anybody in their right minds compare them defensively with another team?

You really want to hide behind this pace thing don't you? D'Antoni's Suns could never get the stop when they needed it. It's because D'Antoni doesn't care about defense.

ex. In the first game of the conference finals in 2005, the Spurs scored 43 points in the 4th quarter to beat the Suns and steal home court. In the postgame D'Antoni was more concerned with the Suns inability to score more points on the fast break than being able to stop the Spurs from shooting 72 percent (12-22) in that quarter. The Suns lost the 1st 2 games at home and lost the series in 5.

But you can go ahead and tell us all about how the Suns really were a good defensive team if you adjust for pace.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
PhilinLA
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5/13/2008  2:29 AM
I don't hide. The Suns weren't a really good defensive team. They didn't have really good defensive players. They were a middle of the pack defensive team, whose defensive deficiencies are overstated by knee jerk critics trying to build a case against a coach with a vision who averaged 58 wins a year in the West with a middle of the pack D built around poor defensive players. The guy's an excellent coach and we're lucky to get him.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
TrueBlue
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5/13/2008  2:30 AM
"Most coaches believe defenses are more vulnerable late in the shot clock, that you can get them out of position with a lot of passing," he said. "I don't know why defenses wouldn't be more vulnerable before they set up. That's why we play fast.

"People say that when you play fast you'll be a high-turnover team. I think you'll be a low-turnover tam because you don't throw as many passes."

D'Antoni Ball IT'S FANTASTIC
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Solace
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5/13/2008  6:23 AM
I like Diaw and Barbosa, and think they would fit well here. However, not at the expense of valuable cap room. We need to get a star core before we can bring in good role players. I agree with the above, if our intention is to bring in overpaid role players instead of working to create a core, then I think we're doomed and I will start doubting the D'Antoni hiring.

But, it hasn't happened yet, so let's wait and see.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
fishmike
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5/13/2008  8:02 AM
that would be a good trade. Boris worries me a bit because last year he suddenly developed conditioning issues but Barbosa is a great player. He's lightning quick, gets lots of steals and shoots a very high %. Barbosa's career shooting %s are 47% and 40% from 3 point range. Diaw's career fg% is .496 and can play all 5 positions. They are 25 and 26.

So lets sum up... two guys 25 and 26. Both very versatile. Both coming from winning systems. Both very high BB IQ. Both shoot very high %. Both still with upside. One has a good contract, one has a questionable contract.

Sorry.. but thats exactly the kind of players the Knicks should be looking to get.

Just for the record.. Barbosa has a higher career FG% from 2 and 3 than Allan Houston.

Sorry.. thats not a role player.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
SlimPack
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5/13/2008  8:13 AM
That trade would be atrocious. if that goes down, Islesfan and the D'antoni detractors win...
franco12
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5/13/2008  8:23 AM
they're not bad players. I just don't think they do enough to fix our problems.

We have plenty of wing players - chandler, balkman, crawford- that do many of the same things as diaw and barbosa.

Although we clearly need shooters in the worse way, we also need a real PG and we need to shed Zach's contract.

If I am taking on their longer term deals, then I better get back 1 or 2 picks or be able to send them back one of my bad deals (jj1 or jj2)
Solace
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5/13/2008  8:33 AM
Posted by fishmike:

that would be a good trade. Boris worries me a bit because last year he suddenly developed conditioning issues but Barbosa is a great player. He's lightning quick, gets lots of steals and shoots a very high %. Barbosa's career shooting %s are 47% and 40% from 3 point range. Diaw's career fg% is .496 and can play all 5 positions. They are 25 and 26.

So lets sum up... two guys 25 and 26. Both very versatile. Both coming from winning systems. Both very high BB IQ. Both shoot very high %. Both still with upside. One has a good contract, one has a questionable contract.

Sorry.. but thats exactly the kind of players the Knicks should be looking to get.

Just for the record.. Barbosa has a higher career FG% from 2 and 3 than Allan Houston.

Sorry.. thats not a role player.

Ok, but the question remains: Are you going to do serious winning with a core of Barbosa, Crawford, David Lee and a draft pick? I think that's a bit weak for a core.

I'm all for grabbing good young players, but not at the expense of bloating the cap and killing our flexibility yet again. Marbury's a better player than Barbosa and we couldn't do better than 33 wins with him in the past four seasons.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
fishmike
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5/13/2008  8:53 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by fishmike:

that would be a good trade. Boris worries me a bit because last year he suddenly developed conditioning issues but Barbosa is a great player. He's lightning quick, gets lots of steals and shoots a very high %. Barbosa's career shooting %s are 47% and 40% from 3 point range. Diaw's career fg% is .496 and can play all 5 positions. They are 25 and 26.

So lets sum up... two guys 25 and 26. Both very versatile. Both coming from winning systems. Both very high BB IQ. Both shoot very high %. Both still with upside. One has a good contract, one has a questionable contract.

Sorry.. but thats exactly the kind of players the Knicks should be looking to get.

Just for the record.. Barbosa has a higher career FG% from 2 and 3 than Allan Houston.

Sorry.. thats not a role player.

Ok, but the question remains: Are you going to do serious winning with a core of Barbosa, Crawford, David Lee and a draft pick? I think that's a bit weak for a core.

I'm all for grabbing good young players, but not at the expense of bloating the cap and killing our flexibility yet again. Marbury's a better player than Barbosa and we couldn't do better than 33 wins with him in the past four seasons.
Solace.. we need to improve the team. Who says that has to be the core? This team is terrible. Before we can obsess about who the core is going to be or who we are building around we need better players plain and simple.

And as far as core players what kind do you want? How about guys that are about 25, can play multiple positions, have high BB IQ and shoot a very high %. Arent those good recs for core players?

What if Mayo, Beasley, Rose are off the board where we pick at 5 and we trade that pick, Malik and Curry to the Pacers for Jermaine Oneil.

Then your 08 starters are Crawford, Barbosa, Diaw, Lee and Oneil coached by Mike D with a bench of Nate, JJSkinny, Q and Chandler.

I think that would be a pretty good start... and notice I say start.

Look.. players from winning teams ALWAYS look better, and its always easier for winning teams to make trades. If the Knicks played .500 ball last year we would have plenty of offers for Zach, but we played .250 ball so nobody wants an overpaid player with a big contract who cant play winning ball.

This team needs sooooo much. We just need to start getting better players that can playing together and win some games.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Solace
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5/13/2008  9:00 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by fishmike:

that would be a good trade. Boris worries me a bit because last year he suddenly developed conditioning issues but Barbosa is a great player. He's lightning quick, gets lots of steals and shoots a very high %. Barbosa's career shooting %s are 47% and 40% from 3 point range. Diaw's career fg% is .496 and can play all 5 positions. They are 25 and 26.

So lets sum up... two guys 25 and 26. Both very versatile. Both coming from winning systems. Both very high BB IQ. Both shoot very high %. Both still with upside. One has a good contract, one has a questionable contract.

Sorry.. but thats exactly the kind of players the Knicks should be looking to get.

Just for the record.. Barbosa has a higher career FG% from 2 and 3 than Allan Houston.

Sorry.. thats not a role player.

Ok, but the question remains: Are you going to do serious winning with a core of Barbosa, Crawford, David Lee and a draft pick? I think that's a bit weak for a core.

I'm all for grabbing good young players, but not at the expense of bloating the cap and killing our flexibility yet again. Marbury's a better player than Barbosa and we couldn't do better than 33 wins with him in the past four seasons.
Solace.. we need to improve the team. Who says that has to be the core? This team is terrible. Before we can obsess about who the core is going to be or who we are building around we need better players plain and simple.

And as far as core players what kind do you want? How about guys that are about 25, can play multiple positions, have high BB IQ and shoot a very high %. Arent those good recs for core players?

What if Mayo, Beasley, Rose are off the board where we pick at 5 and we trade that pick, Malik and Curry to the Pacers for Jermaine Oneil.

Then your 08 starters are Crawford, Barbosa, Diaw, Lee and Oneil coached by Mike D with a bench of Nate, JJSkinny, Q and Chandler.

I think that would be a pretty good start... and notice I say start.

Look.. players from winning teams ALWAYS look better, and its always easier for winning teams to make trades. If the Knicks played .500 ball last year we would have plenty of offers for Zach, but we played .250 ball so nobody wants an overpaid player with a big contract who cant play winning ball.

This team needs sooooo much. We just need to start getting better players that can playing together and win some games.

I agree that winning players look better than losing players. However, stars are rare in this league. Let's say the upper eschelon, that we need players who are among the top 25 players in the league. Even that criteria may be a bit too broad, because in reality, if you don't have a top 10 player, you're not winning a championship.

Here's my question, can Barbosa, Diaw, Lee, etc... be a top 25 player in this league? I think the answer is probably no. So, I would like to see us get at least one guy who has a real shot to be a star. Then surround him with a talented core. It's much difficult to do in reverse order.

Now, to be fair, if we managed to get Beasley in the draft or we use the draft pick to trade for someone like Carmelo Anthony, then I'm all for trying to surround that player with complimentary pieces. I just simply think that having any team of players where none of the players have the potential to be a top 25 player isn't a recipe for true success. It might be a recipe for .500, though. I've always said I'd rather have a losing team than a team in no man's land (not bad enough to get a high pick, never good enough to go deep in the playoffs).

[Edited by - Solace on May 13 2008 09:01 AM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
fishmike
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5/13/2008  9:01 AM
Posted by franco12:

they're not bad players. I just don't think they do enough to fix our problems.

We have plenty of wing players - chandler, balkman, crawford- that do many of the same things as diaw and barbosa.

Although we clearly need shooters in the worse way, we also need a real PG and we need to shed Zach's contract.

If I am taking on their longer term deals, then I better get back 1 or 2 picks or be able to send them back one of my bad deals (jj1 or jj2)
what those two guys bring that none of our players have shown so far is they can make plays, ie make other players better around them and they shoot a very high fg%. Barbosa shoots 47%, Diaw shoots 50%

Just for comparison (last year):
Chandler .438
Nate .423
Jones .421
Marbury .419
Crawford .410
JJSkinny .400
Q .359
Mardy .326

Barbosa and Diaw are simply better BB players than what we have now. No.. they arent stars and dont make us instant contendors, but they are core players that win and play good BB.

You replace Crawford's TOs and 40% shooting with Barbosa's 47% and add Diaw's 50% shooting and great passing in the post and this is a better team as is. Much better.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
ramtour420
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5/13/2008  9:19 AM
At this time we are not gonna trade for them unless:

we get those guys and become at least .500 team . Other loser' trade value goes up. Voila, now we can trade the losers away b4 2010. That would be the only logical explanation if this does happen. so maybe we woun't be kissing rebuilding goodbye, just taking advantage of a MD's coaching to try to turn this thing around. This would be a high risk scenario tho since if we can't trade the losers away after we improve then we'll really be in a hole as far as the salary cap.
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
Nalod
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5/13/2008  9:19 AM
Riiles did showtime then when he came to NY did smash mouth slow ball.

Nobody seems to be inclined that MikeyD can adapt one bit.

Cap space is a long process to behold.

Im not gonna sit by for two years and do nothing but starwish for Lebron.

The whole thing about Barbosa and Diaw is nothing but conjecture by a writer.

But, could we (salaries aside) replace Craw for Barbosa? Jeffries for Diaw? Or a host of other moves? Dumping eddie or ZBloat flat out?

Eddie on a good team is good dump for a team to risk on. Same for Zdumb.

I think the Suns frustration was based on getting bounced in the first round really put a hurt on the revenue for the team. They have to go deep to help pay all that salary.

Remember, the team was put together with Colangelo and his father. Then Sarver came in with Kerr and D'antoni is not in the inner most circle anymore.

Give Walsh time to develop a plan and put it in place.

Hey, in a month we went from Isiah to Walsh/MikeyD!

lets see if Stern riggs the draft for us and how that plays out for us and other teams.
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