Why think otherwise? Because it's time to stop jacking off to every move a GM makes like we used to before we realized they suck. Walsh may have the track record but he hasn't proven anything here yet to deserve any trust whatsoever. Not to mention he handled the easy firing of Isiah sorta poorly by still keeping him around. He hasn't done anything here to be trusted.

As for the practical side of it, what has been said already has been said. All you're doing is repeating the same thing. C'mon man, you ask why some people want Jackson over D'Antoni and then your only reasoning is that D'Antoni had success before. Who cares? The success he had was good on the offensive side of the ball but he showed his coaching skills in the playoffs. He can't teach defense and he doesn't try to. He's a 50% coach. Either way, we will suck with anyone we have. We don't need experience. We know what D'Antoni is. I don't want Jackson but I'd rather take the unknown than the known(all offense, no defense).

I also don't care about what he did in Europe. He sucked ass in Denver but I guess nobody cares about that. He can only teach one style - run and gun. That style isn't championship worthy and you don't build a team(if that's what we're doing here and not looking for crossover and alley oops) on a style that has failed to make a Finals appearance. It is a failed concept. D'Antoni will never have the great players he amassed in Phoenix again. If he couldn't get over the hump with that, his type of style will never win the big one.

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 05-08-2008 11:41 PM]

Posted by Solace:

Posted by EnySpree:

Are me and Solace on the same side of an argument

Good point. I now agree with GKFv2. Just kidding.

Seriously, though. I got criticized for always being against Isiah. I just call it like I see it. D'Antoni is a good coach, and we have a way long to go. Why not bring in a winning attitude? No need to micromanage every move. Making D'Antoni sound like a terrible coach is absurd. End of story.

I thought Isiah was smart but he ****ed up everything he tried to do all by himself.

The fix is in......donnie walsh runs the knicks, hires d'antoni, Stern gives us the second pick and the knicks draft Derrick Rose, the knicks somehow trade curry and zach in the same offseason, they fill out the roster and actually scrap into the playoffs next year.......why not dream like a school girl......its better than crying like a caca.

Posted by EnySpree:

Are me and Solace on the same side of an argument

Exactly what I was talking about bro...crazy how post-Isiah has changed the discussion about the team!

Posted by Cosmic:

Also with DAntoni at 5 years you care about the money because it would prevent a buy out if it came to that after 2 seasons (which with this team is definitely always a possibility).

Isn't that a positive? Doesn't a coach with more stability have more power over his players? Wouldn't that finally put an end to the coaching carousel that has set us back every year for the last 5 years? Why is it a positive to hire another coach that we can just turn around and fire? Don't you think the players recognize that type of weakness? If D'Antoni really is not fire-able, I think it would help rather than hurt.

The Suns, I'm sure, got rid of Marion due to his personality issues. Regardless, get something in return for him. Getting an on-his-last-legs Shaq for Marion is an absolute joke and severely cost the Suns. Worst trade in NBA history?

Posted by eViL:

Posted by Solace:

The Suns, I'm sure, got rid of Marion due to his personality issues. Regardless, get something in return for him. Getting an on-his-last-legs Shaq for Marion is an absolute joke and severely cost the Suns. Worst trade in NBA history?

The Suns also liked the way Shaq's deal lines up with Nash's deal because it allows them to make a clean break from those two at the same time, when they are too old to be cornerstones (if they are not too old already). They will get to turn the franchise around quick if they put the right pieces around Amare. I have no idea what other players out there were available that would address their need for low-post stability and future flexibility.

How likely it is it they can rebuild the team to the level they're currently at? I don't understand throwing away a pretty good chance at a championship for cap room.

Posted by eViL:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by Solace:

The Suns, I'm sure, got rid of Marion due to his personality issues. Regardless, get something in return for him. Getting an on-his-last-legs Shaq for Marion is an absolute joke and severely cost the Suns. Worst trade in NBA history?

The Suns also liked the way Shaq's deal lines up with Nash's deal because it allows them to make a clean break from those two at the same time, when they are too old to be cornerstones (if they are not too old already). They will get to turn the franchise around quick if they put the right pieces around Amare. I have no idea what other players out there were available that would address their need for low-post stability and future flexibility.

How likely it is it they can rebuild the team to the level they're currently at? I don't understand throwing away a pretty good chance at a championship for cap room.

I don't think it was strictly for cap room per se. I think it was more of a "let's take a risk that at least has a fall-back option to it". I mean, at least the move was calculated. They wanted to improve in the half-court. It didn't quite mesh as quickly as they wanted it to.

I have no idea what it's like to coach and make adjustments to adding a guy like Shaq (especially to a traditionally fast-paced team). Maybe with another year, D'Antoni could integrate Shaq and give the team that consistent low-post half court presence when needed. This year it wasn't very consistent. I mean, it looked like it might work at times. Shaq is not the same as he used to be, but he's not useless.

So yeah, I think they made the move because they thought it would make them better and because attitude issues were hurting their team. There were a lot of factors involved. That's why I said they "also liked the way Shaq's deal lined up with Nash's..." I was just saying it was one factor.

Fair. I just think you have to get more than Shaq in return for Marion, who IMHO is one of the top 10 players in the NBA. I know some people on this board would disagree with my assessment of Marion's talents, but I honestly feel he's that good. The Suns also took a longer contract in Shaq (one year longer). In most scenarios, giving up the better player, giving up the younger and healthier player and taking back a larger deal would get you some draft picks coming back.

[Edited by - Solace on May 09 2008 5:06 PM]

Posted by eViL:

Posted by Solace:

Fair. I just think you have to get more than Shaq in return for Marion, who IMHO is one of the top 10 players in the NBA. I know some people on this board would disagree with my assessment of Marion's talents, but I honestly feel he's that good. The Suns also took a longer contract in Shaq (one year longer). In most scenarios, giving up the better player, giving up the younger and healthier player and taking back a larger deal would get you some draft picks coming back.

[Edited by - Solace on May 09 2008 5:06 PM]

Absolutely. It's a surprise they didn't get a pick in return. The deal was well-played by Miami. You have to think they really value their picks right now because they aren't sure if they'll be contending next year. You can't take anything for granted. I mean, there's only one Isiah. He would have given up nine unprotected first rounders, six second rounders and an unborn child in that deal.

Corrected above in bold.

Posted by eViL:

HAHA!! So true. Isiah def cornered the market on worst trades in NBA history. He covered all bases. He has the worst signings and the worst coaching job ever. When it comes to being the worst, he's the best.

It's like he was so confident that every move is gonna be a blockbuster he can't fathom needing draft picks, let alone lottery protection.

Yep. He's the guy who walks into a joust without plate armor, a lance or a horse.

He kind of reminds me of that guy from Monty Python:



King Arthur: [after Arthur's cut off both of the Black Knight's arms] Look, you stupid Bastard. You've got no arms left.
Black Knight: Yes I have.
King Arthur: *Look*!
Black Knight: 'Tis just a flesh wound.