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This is my 4th post on him but JR Smith is ooooozing with top tier talent
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crzymdups
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4/29/2008  6:57 PM
Posted by fishmike:

How about this (bearing in mind Denver's salary structure)
Denver's 08/10 #1's top 3 on the 2010 only
KMart
Smith (sign and trade)

For

Lee and Marbury and Jerome James.

I actually think that accomplished quite a bit for both teams.

i like that trade a lot.
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TMS
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4/29/2008  8:12 PM
Posted by fishmike:

^^ What does Denver gain by that?

And who cares about long contracts? So we can get Lebron? Please... lets build this team with young talent, defense and accumulating picks

We have the resources to make Boston type moves in the next couple of years. We arent getting Lebron or Wade.. we just arent. No mega star has left their team via FA since the cap. The closest was Nash, and he didnt leave, rather Dallas just didnt want to pay him, and that was before the two MVPs. Anything can happen but I am not building my future on the hopes that something happens that never has before.

who cares about long contracts?? you weren't singing that tune when we got Zach & signed Big Turd to the full MLE fish... it's not just Lebron who turns FA in a couple years... i'd like to be able to target guys like Wade, Bosh, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, et al too... why after all this time are you still holding to the argument that there's no point in gaining cap flexibility when the moves we've made over the past few years has royally fugged our franchise's longterm future?

if DEN gains nothing w/those moves, then stand pat & do nothing... i don't see why DEN would give us 2 1st round picks and take on Big Turd's contract just to get cap space & D Lee.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BRIGGS
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4/29/2008  8:25 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:

How about this (bearing in mind Denver's salary structure)
Denver's 08/10 #1's top 3 on the 2010 only
KMart
Smith (sign and trade)

For

Lee and Marbury and Jerome James.

I actually think that accomplished quite a bit for both teams.

i like that trade a lot.


No Kmart trade--he is to unstable and that is too much money--just sign Smith to a 3 year 17mm $ contract with the last year only partially guaranteed--were not going to be great over night. We certainly could use JR. Im not trading Lee for anything less than a top 7-8 pick this year or something that is proven and young. Certainly a future draft pick makes 0 sense
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crzymdups
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4/29/2008  11:52 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:

How about this (bearing in mind Denver's salary structure)
Denver's 08/10 #1's top 3 on the 2010 only
KMart
Smith (sign and trade)

For

Lee and Marbury and Jerome James.

I actually think that accomplished quite a bit for both teams.

i like that trade a lot.


No Kmart trade--he is to unstable and that is too much money--just sign Smith to a 3 year 17mm $ contract with the last year only partially guaranteed--were not going to be great over night. We certainly could use JR. Im not trading Lee for anything less than a top 7-8 pick this year or something that is proven and young. Certainly a future draft pick makes 0 sense

we all agree curry isn't going anywhere and briggs you have been in favor of keeping him from time to time. kmart is the kind of PF who compliments Curry's game. if we can get JOneal, I'd go in that direction. but most likely we can't, so we have to figure out someone who compliments Curry in the front court. Kmart does. denver will want to make changes, too, so the trade works for both parties.
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BRIGGS
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4/30/2008  12:01 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:

How about this (bearing in mind Denver's salary structure)
Denver's 08/10 #1's top 3 on the 2010 only
KMart
Smith (sign and trade)

For

Lee and Marbury and Jerome James.

I actually think that accomplished quite a bit for both teams.

i like that trade a lot.


No Kmart trade--he is to unstable and that is too much money--just sign Smith to a 3 year 17mm $ contract with the last year only partially guaranteed--were not going to be great over night. We certainly could use JR. Im not trading Lee for anything less than a top 7-8 pick this year or something that is proven and young. Certainly a future draft pick makes 0 sense

we all agree curry isn't going anywhere and briggs you have been in favor of keeping him from time to time. kmart is the kind of PF who compliments Curry's game. if we can get JOneal, I'd go in that direction. but most likely we can't, so we have to figure out someone who compliments Curry in the front court. Kmart does. denver will want to make changes, too, so the trade works for both parties.

His contract runs into 2010-2011 and is a maximum contract--he's not good enough of a player for that contract and on top of it it runs past the year where we want cap space. Honestly Id rather start collecting nice young pieces that can be put into a team. I dont really care if they use Marburys contract on JO--maybe it will work out maybe it wont--it doesnt run through that pivotal time so no big deal. The key is getting the team stacked with good young talent like the Celtics did--keep salaries at or below 5mm and getting rid of 2010-2011 high $ cap space. The first step here is roll a 7 in roughly two weeks. That will go a LONG way.
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GKFv2
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4/30/2008  2:16 AM
I don't know what your infatuation is with this chucker. He is a lazy knucklehead who is only out there for himself. We already got enough of these guys. Let him stay far away from here.
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crzymdups
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4/30/2008  2:35 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:


His contract runs into 2010-2011 and is a maximum contract--he's not good enough of a player for that contract and on top of it it runs past the year where we want cap space. Honestly Id rather start collecting nice young pieces that can be put into a team. I dont really care if they use Marburys contract on JO--maybe it will work out maybe it wont--it doesnt run through that pivotal time so no big deal. The key is getting the team stacked with good young talent like the Celtics did--keep salaries at or below 5mm and getting rid of 2010-2011 high $ cap space. The first step here is roll a 7 in roughly two weeks. That will go a LONG way.

i don't think we can trade eddy. period. i think we have to try to work with him and maybe build up his value for a future trade.

i've said before my first preference would be to trade Marbury (and Lee to sweeten the pot) for JOneal and then try to move Crawford and Zach to Cleveland for some combination like Zydrunas and Wally. That gets under the cap in 2010. And of course I'd want to add young pieces along the way. Our only hope is to add good young players.

I'd do the JOneal trade in a heartbeat, because if he can get healthy he's a foundation player. If he can't, you let him expire in two years. BUT, I'm not sure he's actually gonna be available. I think Kmart compliments Eddy, but I didn't realize Kmart's deal ran so long. Still, talent wise, if we could add Kmart and JR Smith, we'd be a better team.
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fishmike
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4/30/2008  10:33 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:

^^ What does Denver gain by that?

And who cares about long contracts? So we can get Lebron? Please... lets build this team with young talent, defense and accumulating picks

We have the resources to make Boston type moves in the next couple of years. We arent getting Lebron or Wade.. we just arent. No mega star has left their team via FA since the cap. The closest was Nash, and he didnt leave, rather Dallas just didnt want to pay him, and that was before the two MVPs. Anything can happen but I am not building my future on the hopes that something happens that never has before.

who cares about long contracts?? you weren't singing that tune when we got Zach & signed Big Turd to the full MLE fish... it's not just Lebron who turns FA in a couple years... i'd like to be able to target guys like Wade, Bosh, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, et al too... why after all this time are you still holding to the argument that there's no point in gaining cap flexibility when the moves we've made over the past few years has royally fugged our franchise's longterm future?

if DEN gains nothing w/those moves, then stand pat & do nothing... i don't see why DEN would give us 2 1st round picks and take on Big Turd's contract just to get cap space & D Lee.
that was a point where our salary structure was still managable. We had Jalen Rose, Mo Taylor, Malik, etc.. a whole bunch of guys coming off around the same time leaving us only with a few guys to shuffle around and we would have had cap space. When Isiah added big turd, JJ skinny and Zach it pretty much became a moot point as we just have too many contracts. Before then cap space was a reasonable goal. Now it would be a waste of resources.

Also I am more a believer in cap flexibility over cap space. Again.. since this CBA what FA has left his team? Dallas didnt want to pay Nash. Who else? KMart? Arenas? A couple of 2nd tier all stars that were probably overpaid for. I would rather stock pile young players, picks and reasonable contracts like Boston did.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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4/30/2008  10:41 AM
this is the same guy, that ripped a girls dress and then spit champainge on her at a club? this guy is a piece of work, that is for sure. He is a very good offensive talent, but the kid is not a good defender. I thought we were looking at two way players from this point forward...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
K22
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4/30/2008  10:45 AM
Posted by tkf:

this is the same guy, that ripped a girls dress and then spit champainge on her at a club? this guy is a piece of work, that is for sure. He is a very good offensive talent, but the kid is not a good defender. I thought we were looking at two way players from this point forward...

Oh, he's "offensive", all right. ;)

I'd like to reiterate my previous stance of not bringing in any more knuckleheads.
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
BRIGGS
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4/30/2008  12:09 PM
Posted by K22:
Posted by tkf:

this is the same guy, that ripped a girls dress and then spit champainge on her at a club? this guy is a piece of work, that is for sure. He is a very good offensive talent, but the kid is not a good defender. I thought we were looking at two way players from this point forward...

Oh, he's "offensive", all right. ;)

I'd like to reiterate my previous stance of not bringing in any more knuckleheads.

You guys are wrong on JR. I would have agreed with you even last year--from what Im listening to here I can tell that negative posters simply did not watch a lot of him this year especially in the second half of the season. This guy played mature basketball--he played defense--he was an excellent conduit to their offense off the bench--he showed much better shot selection and diversified skills--in other words he seemed to be quite coachable. In terms of talent and athletic ability--he is worth more than the MLE--I would rather pay JR 30mm than Ben Gordon 60mm if I had the choice--Id rather have JR Smith than Ben Gordon period. If you want to hold some of his actions when he was 19-20 21 against him--that is OK--IMHO--he is way too young to be labeled problem--his actions--imho from 80% of this season speak much louder than words. I agree in a sense with trueblue that ultimately the MLE cash might not be enough but I think with his talent level and age --its worth a chance. Bring in the right coach and assistant coaches and he will only get better. I think it speaks highly of someone who could've pouted and acted immaturely--JR did not do this--he took coaching and played within a system and played very well on a good team. A lot of people make mistakes when they are young. Im looking at these factors with a 5mm+ contract--age talent size athleticism determination motor and coachability/team play. He shows all of these things and he will get better. A good coach can help make this kid great. Believe me there will be more than 1 team who will offer him the MLE or MORE.
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nyk4ever
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4/30/2008  12:14 PM
Anyone can look good shooting wide-open jumpers when Melo and Iverson are both getting doubled. He'd make a nice pickup for a contending team.
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Anji
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5/3/2008  11:12 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by K22:
Posted by tkf:

this is the same guy, that ripped a girls dress and then spit champainge on her at a club? this guy is a piece of work, that is for sure. He is a very good offensive talent, but the kid is not a good defender. I thought we were looking at two way players from this point forward...

Oh, he's "offensive", all right. ;)

I'd like to reiterate my previous stance of not bringing in any more knuckleheads.

You guys are wrong on JR. I would have agreed with you even last year--from what Im listening to here I can tell that negative posters simply did not watch a lot of him this year especially in the second half of the season. This guy played mature basketball--he played defense--he was an excellent conduit to their offense off the bench--he showed much better shot selection and diversified skills--in other words he seemed to be quite coachable. In terms of talent and athletic ability--he is worth more than the MLE--I would rather pay JR 30mm than Ben Gordon 60mm if I had the choice--Id rather have JR Smith than Ben Gordon period. If you want to hold some of his actions when he was 19-20 21 against him--that is OK--IMHO--he is way too young to be labeled problem--his actions--imho from 80% of this season speak much louder than words. I agree in a sense with trueblue that ultimately the MLE cash might not be enough but I think with his talent level and age --its worth a chance. Bring in the right coach and assistant coaches and he will only get better. I think it speaks highly of someone who could've pouted and acted immaturely--JR did not do this--he took coaching and played within a system and played very well on a good team. A lot of people make mistakes when they are young. Im looking at these factors with a 5mm+ contract--age talent size athleticism determination motor and coachability/team play. He shows all of these things and he will get better. A good coach can help make this kid great. Believe me there will be more than 1 team who will offer him the MLE or MORE.

Unless they can trade Allen Iverson or Marcus Camby to a team with cap space, the Nuggets must endure another heavy luxury-tax bill next season. Otherwise, expect Iverson to become a free agent in 2009 as the Nuggets allow his $20.8 million to expire from the books. Restricted free agent J.R. Smith probably can be re-signed below the mid-level range. SI.com
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4949
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5/3/2008  2:00 PM
Doesn't matter what any of you come up with. I thought Walsh's long term plan was to make the cap flexible again so we can have a shot at LeBron, maybe even Paul or whoever can star? BRIGGS I like your scenario, but if Walsh plan goes through, then it is moot.
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5/4/2008  9:40 AM
Posted by purple012870:

Is Childress just a 2 guard version of JJ2 (skinny, unathletic)?

Sorry, but this is just extremely off base.
First off, Childress is primarily an SF at 6'8", but can play both wing positions.
He's a very nice all-around, two-way player.
Averaging .522 FG ... .360 on 3's ... & 80% FT's in 30 minutes.
All of which has absolutely nothing to do with JJ Skinny, who shot .521 on FT's last season)
Childress had a 57% FG last season (which is higher than JJ's combined FG% & 3-Pt% or equal to Jeffries career FT average).
Would love to get Childress on the Knicks.
Nice steady hard-working player.
Jeffries is a bum from way back.

JR Smith is a streaky chucker.
Sort of Jamal with range.
Half the time he doesn't show up.
Questionable character and attitude.
Even the last playoff game when he played well, he decided he was Kobe's equal and started jacking 26 footers in the 4th which consistently clanked. On one contested 3 he was bailed out with a foul call, on some rather slight body contact by Kobe (and I am far from a Kobe fan).
JR does provide 3 point shooting which we need. But I'd try to find it elsewhere.
Like from a defender who can knock down the corner 3.

Would like to move Crawford though.


[Edited by - bodid on 05-05-2008 01:55 AM]
TMS
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5/5/2008  12:03 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

In terms of talent and athletic ability--he is worth more than the MLE--I would rather pay JR 30mm than Ben Gordon 60mm if I had the choice--Id rather have JR Smith than Ben Gordon period. If you want to hold some of his actions when he was 19-20 21 against him--that is OK--IMHO--he is way too young to be labeled problem--his actions--imho from 80% of this season speak much louder than words. I agree in a sense with trueblue that ultimately the MLE cash might not be enough but I think with his talent level and age --its worth a chance...

Believe me there will be more than 1 team who will offer him the MLE or MORE.

if that's what you believe, what makes you think a 3 year $17mm contract with the last year only partially guaranteed would be enough to land the guy to begin with?

& BRIGGS, just because people disagree w/u about JR doesn't mean they haven't watched the kid play last year... there are more reasons than just purely talent-based evaluations why some people are hesitant to throw the full MLE at this kid.
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MS
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5/5/2008  10:36 AM
I refuse to sign a player that made fun of a teammate for reading. This kid is a gang banger that doesn't want to be coached.

I think we have enough guys with low iqs that player offensive ball.
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5/5/2008  11:22 AM
Posted by MS:

I refuse to sign a player that made fun of a teammate for reading. This kid is a gang banger that doesn't want to be coached.

I think we have enough guys with low iqs that player offensive ball.

I hate to lay this on you but boith OJ Mayo and Beasley have questionable character problems. Again I think that this is radically discounted because of their age--so should JR as he wasnt ready for prep to pros. Id be very happy to have either Mayo or Beasley. I think the way JR played 75% of this season --if you really watched Denver--showed dramatic change in this player. The risk/reward with JR is rather low with an MLE contract since his production at 22 years old is already worth the salary. I don't think we can pre-judge a person at 19-20 years old--all of us make mistakes in that age bracket--it's all about what you are as a man. I think he has shown he is becoming a man. As far as basketball skills size athletic ability age-the MLE contract is a no-brainer--and if it isnt us it will be somebody else. The other problem is you say nay--but who exactly do you say yes to--who do you want dan dickau back to play SG?
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MS
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5/5/2008  11:44 AM
Ok in order for this trade to actually benefit the knicks two things have to happen, the baby bulls both need to be moved. Crawford and Curry have been killing the team, if you have deals in place fine.

If you can make these moves I would take JR Smith for the three years as suggested.

Nate for Kyle Lowry

Crawford for TJ Ford

Curry, Sheldon Williams to the Heat (Rose, Wade, Marion, Curry not bad), Haslem and Balkman to the Kings, Artest to Knicks

TJ Ford/Kyle Lowry
JR. Smith/Q
Artest/Chandler
Zach/Jefferies
Lee/Malik

Plus a draft choice to the mix
BRIGGS
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5/5/2008  3:08 PM
Posted by MS:

Ok in order for this trade to actually benefit the knicks two things have to happen, the baby bulls both need to be moved. Crawford and Curry have been killing the team, if you have deals in place fine.

If you can make these moves I would take JR Smith for the three years as suggested.

Nate for Kyle Lowry

Crawford for TJ Ford

Curry, Sheldon Williams to the Heat (Rose, Wade, Marion, Curry not bad), Haslem and Balkman to the Kings, Artest to Knicks

TJ Ford/Kyle Lowry
JR. Smith/Q
Artest/Chandler
Zach/Jefferies
Lee/Malik

Plus a draft choice to the mix



No interest in TJ Ford. No interest in Ron Artest. No interest in Lowry. David Lee cannot play C. I do not care about the W-L record for the next two years. I just want to remove as much as I can from what is here[especially those who belong in cap range for 2010-2011] and add what I deem as high quality young youth over the next 2 years--I would use the MLE[as I would for Smith]
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This is my 4th post on him but JR Smith is ooooozing with top tier talent
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