Posted by arkrud:

You guys seem to forget that bbal is not only the game but entertainment business (and in NY it is mostly entertainment business). Lee is money cow for MSG and he will bring more money that this max contract.
He is most likely will never be worth max money as bbal player but he is an asset which can bring the financial return.
So believe me - lee will get whatever he will ask for from Dolan and Co regardless of what Walsh is thinking.


[Edited by - arkrud on 04-16-2008 09:26 AM]

Uhh no sure fans like him but he's far from being a cash cow. The Garden will still be packed if he's here or not because its NY.

Garden might be kept pretty full this year because of Lee. Nate is an attraction also. The little freaky guy can jump and young fans love the guy.

It seems Isiah always over does it. Marbury was bad enough but Francis was too much. He gets Jerome to play center (someone had to!!!) then overpays for Eddy. He hits a home run with DLee then duplicates low post with Zdumb.

Balkman when he needed a point.

Just goes on and on.

Frye was not the answer, but we could have used him at times and let francis just come off the books.

Anyway, Isiah gone now.

Let Donnie figure it out, get some fresh coach's in play, and maybe we can get good value out of the team and make moves.

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by TrueBlue:

I tried to tell everyone a while ago the dude at the very minimum will command 5yrs/$50 and said it could go as high as $65mil.

Thank you Captain Obvious but this isn't really a discussion until negotiations actually, if ever, begin.

There was nothing obvious about the statement I made because fans sincerely believe he can be had for pennies on the dollar. How many players on the end of their rookie contracts, who are in the Top 10 of their draft class settle for crumb cake contract extensions? This will be Lee and Nate's first big pay day and if they've learned anything from being here in New York, they better try and get theirs first and foremost. What I didn't understand a player such as Lee who is rare according to most of our fan base feel he can be retained for a contract slightly above the MLE.

Reading this **** you have to give up, trade lee for tyler who might be better, are you ****ing ,kidding me.

The guy is not going to get a max deal. If he gets 10 million is that a bad deal? Tyson Chandler makes that and lee is much better than the guy. You put lee on a team with a pg who has a brain the kid is averaging 18pts and 12rbs a game doing it in the flow of the offense and more efficiently than just about any other player in the league.

You would to move him with Zach to get cap room thats fine, because then you can gut the entire team for expiring deals give away everyone and sign two max players and fill role players in around them through the draft.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

They will have to make a decision on Lee this summer. Either they pay him 5-6 years at 10mm $ or some other team will *force* them to do so next year--it's pretty simple. It is possible to get nice compensation for him now--next year we could get nothing. If he goes for nothing--then you did set your franchise back---but I cant see the Knicks doing that. I would not play Russian roulette here either.

I would wait until his agent and Lee are absolutely dead set on getting an extension. I wouldn't try and lock him up now. My stance would be to wait until Lee becomes a RF. Extend him the QO so we have rights to match any offer he gets and let the market determine Lee's value. If his value is too high, that's when you explore S&T's options. Make sure we get a third team involved who's hopefully under the cap at the time, to have a chance to receive a large TE in a S&T.

They can offer Lee an extension this year or he becomes a RFA next year. Once he becomes a RFA other teams can sign him to an offer sheet where the NY Knicks can either match or not--It is possible to do S+T but you cannot bank on it--the best value is his present day value. To me there is only two options--see if you can offer Lee less--like a 6 years 42mm $ contract that is front-loaded--[right off that is working right into the cap space that they want to save although the cap number would be in the mid 6s not a bad number]---now Lee would have to accept less than an open market offer next year and he could be leaving substantial money on the table in the contract that really is the main contract in a player's career. If it were my client--I would ask the Knicks for 6 years 60$ and sit on that number--I wouldnt let my client keep 18 or more mm on the table UNLESS that is what he directed me to do. David Lee is a nice guy buy I doubt he leaves 20-30mm on the table just to play in NY.

The secondary problem is even if we keep lee and do get him signed to a more reasobale long term deal--lets say 6 years 45mm$--then you have Nate and possibly Crawford to deal with as well and if we can not get a deal with Zach done--the money doesnt work for cap space.

If Isiah Thomas did not trade for Zach randolph--this would be a non issue but that 18mm $ albatross and the fact that we owe Curry 10mm[not including the possibility Crawford does not opt out which is 10mm] --the logistics of creating cap space for Lebron James look bleak at best.


You can keep 1 of Lee Crawford and Nate with that Zach Contract if you want cap space in that year.
Now you can start trading 1 or 2 of these guys into the draft and rebuild the team with draftees that are tied in financially until 2012. There are serious $$$ decisions that will have to be made --obviously getting rid and that albatross would be the best case scenario--but I doubt that it will happen.

You don't sign Nate under any circumstances move him for whatever you can, lowry is someone that you can get for him, you don't retain crawford either, look to move him asap. He has no ceiling he has reached it.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

They will have to make a decision on Lee this summer. Either they pay him 5-6 years at 10mm $ or some other team will *force* them to do so next year--it's pretty simple. It is possible to get nice compensation for him now--next year we could get nothing. If he goes for nothing--then you did set your franchise back---but I cant see the Knicks doing that. I would not play Russian roulette here either.

I would wait until his agent and Lee are absolutely dead set on getting an extension. I wouldn't try and lock him up now. My stance would be to wait until Lee becomes a RF. Extend him the QO so we have rights to match any offer he gets and let the market determine Lee's value. If his value is too high, that's when you explore S&T's options. Make sure we get a third team involved who's hopefully under the cap at the time, to have a chance to receive a large TE in a S&T.

They can offer Lee an extension this year or he becomes a RFA next year. Once he becomes a RFA other teams can sign him to an offer sheet where the NY Knicks can either match or not--It is possible to do S+T but you cannot bank on it--the best value is his present day value. To me there is only two options--see if you can offer Lee less--like a 6 years 42mm $ contract that is front-loaded--[right off that is working right into the cap space that they want to save although the cap number would be in the mid 6s not a bad number]---now Lee would have to accept less than an open market offer next year and he could be leaving substantial money on the table in the contract that really is the main contract in a player's career. If it were my client--I would ask the Knicks for 6 years 60$ and sit on that number--I wouldnt let my client keep 18 or more mm on the table UNLESS that is what he directed me to do. David Lee is a nice guy buy I doubt he leaves 20-30mm on the table just to play in NY.

The secondary problem is even if we keep lee and do get him signed to a more reasobale long term deal--lets say 6 years 45mm$--then you have Nate and possibly Crawford to deal with as well and if we can not get a deal with Zach done--the money doesnt work for cap space.

If Isiah Thomas did not trade for Zach randolph--this would be a non issue but that 18mm $ albatross and the fact that we owe Curry 10mm[not including the possibility Crawford does not opt out which is 10mm] --the logistics of creating cap space for Lebron James look bleak at best.


You can keep 1 of Lee Crawford and Nate with that Zach Contract if you want cap space in that year.
Now you can start trading 1 or 2 of these guys into the draft and rebuild the team with draftees that are tied in financially until 2012. There are serious $$$ decisions that will have to be made --obviously getting rid and that albatross would be the best case scenario--but I doubt that it will happen.

You don't lock up a player at $50mil right now when you're trying to maintain your open cap space down the road. Bartlestien has been in this biz a long time and he usually goes for top dollar with his clients. He's not going to tell Lee to settle for 6yrs/$45mil. Especially when Lee would be entitled to considerably more than this for his current total extension contract value and looking at RFA down the road. The only way I see a bargain deal getting done is if Lee truly wants to be here and wants the security right away. Translation he doesn't care about money. Matter of fact I don't think Lee's extension can exceed more than 5yrs. That's the max number of yrs a player can receive on an extension off a rookie deal. Less yrs available on extension means more money per yr, which also means higher salary escalated by the the 2010-11 Cap yr because he received extension early and definitely so if we frontloaded the contract. This actually may be the maximum number of yrs any player can receive on an extension. Lee can receive a 6yr contract once he becomes a FA, whether RF or UFA. I think we get too suckered into the highly improbable. The available cap space achieved isn't ALL IN for Lebron. It's to have the flexibility to do what we choose with the free space, whether it be $20, 15 or 10mil. If teams get the sense we'll match any fair to decent offer, they may not be as anxious to obtain Lee. We should wait it out as long as possible. It doesn't matter if Lee blows up in the meantime. If he does he becomes more attractive to all parties involved.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BRIGGS:

They will have to make a decision on Lee this summer. Either they pay him 5-6 years at 10mm $ or some other team will *force* them to do so next year--it's pretty simple. It is possible to get nice compensation for him now--next year we could get nothing. If he goes for nothing--then you did set your franchise back---but I cant see the Knicks doing that. I would not play Russian roulette here either.

I would wait until his agent and Lee are absolutely dead set on getting an extension. I wouldn't try and lock him up now. My stance would be to wait until Lee becomes a RF. Extend him the QO so we have rights to match any offer he gets and let the market determine Lee's value. If his value is too high, that's when you explore S&T's options. Make sure we get a third team involved who's hopefully under the cap at the time, to have a chance to receive a large TE in a S&T.

They can offer Lee an extension this year or he becomes a RFA next year. Once he becomes a RFA other teams can sign him to an offer sheet where the NY Knicks can either match or not--It is possible to do S+T but you cannot bank on it--the best value is his present day value. To me there is only two options--see if you can offer Lee less--like a 6 years 42mm $ contract that is front-loaded--[right off that is working right into the cap space that they want to save although the cap number would be in the mid 6s not a bad number]---now Lee would have to accept less than an open market offer next year and he could be leaving substantial money on the table in the contract that really is the main contract in a player's career. If it were my client--I would ask the Knicks for 6 years 60$ and sit on that number--I wouldnt let my client keep 18 or more mm on the table UNLESS that is what he directed me to do. David Lee is a nice guy buy I doubt he leaves 20-30mm on the table just to play in NY.

The secondary problem is even if we keep lee and do get him signed to a more reasobale long term deal--lets say 6 years 45mm$--then you have Nate and possibly Crawford to deal with as well and if we can not get a deal with Zach done--the money doesnt work for cap space.

If Isiah Thomas did not trade for Zach randolph--this would be a non issue but that 18mm $ albatross and the fact that we owe Curry 10mm[not including the possibility Crawford does not opt out which is 10mm] --the logistics of creating cap space for Lebron James look bleak at best.


You can keep 1 of Lee Crawford and Nate with that Zach Contract if you want cap space in that year.
Now you can start trading 1 or 2 of these guys into the draft and rebuild the team with draftees that are tied in financially until 2012. There are serious $$$ decisions that will have to be made --obviously getting rid and that albatross would be the best case scenario--but I doubt that it will happen.

You don't lock up a player at $50mil right now when you're trying to maintain your open cap space down the road. Bartlestien has been in this biz a long time and he usually goes for top dollar with his clients. He's not going to tell Lee to settle for 6yrs/$45mil. Especially when Lee would be entitled to considerably more than this for his current total extension contract value and looking at RFA down the road. The only way I see a bargain deal getting done is if Lee truly wants to be here and wants the security right away. Translation he doesn't care about money. Matter of fact I don't think Lee's extension can exceed more than 5yrs. That's the max number of yrs a player can receive on an extension off a rookie deal. Less yrs available on extension means more money per yr, which also means higher salary escalated by the the 2010-11 Cap yr because he received extension early and definitely so if we frontloaded the contract. This actually may be the maximum number of yrs any player can receive on an extension. Lee can receive a 6yr contract once he becomes a FA, whether RF or UFA. I think we get too suckered into the highly improbable. The available cap space achieved isn't ALL IN for Lebron. It's to have the flexibility to do what we choose with the free space, whether it be $20, 15 or 10mil. If teams get the sense we'll match any fair to decent offer, they may not be as anxious to obtain Lee. We should wait it out as long as possible. It doesn't matter if Lee blows up in the meantime. If he does he becomes more attractive to all parties involved.

Last yera a bunch of teams tried to lock in their 3 year players so they didnt go to RFA statsus--most noticeablt Deng Gordon Ok4. A player that did sign an extension was Jefferson. It's good business to negotiate with Lee now because you are the only team that can do so. I would offer him 6 years 42mm frontloaded and as high as 45mm and if that was no good--then I would trade him into the draft.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by martin:

is it me or are we all getting our panties bunched up over what some rival agaent is saying about Lee? I mean, this agent is trying to get David to switch, right? No team signs him so anything near $10M a year.

It only takes one team to snatch him up and MB did the same thing with Antoine Walker when he was in Boston but landed in Miami. He'll get Lee a deal closer to Top Dollar salary vs the bargain extension our fan base is crossing their fingers for.

then good riddance. Unless Lee shows dramatic improvement in defense and an outside jumpshot, he is not worth that much. It's a stretch to compare Lee to Antoine Walker of old.