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Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
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Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Killa4luv:
I suppose you thought this post was especially unworthy then.
Its neither especially worthy or unworthy. It was interesting. I don't have an hour to dissect it. If you're looking for discussion from certain posters who hold certain views, you should go ahead and ask them unambiguously to join the discussion. There's no reason to think they won't take it in the right spirit unless you feel you've either misrepresented them or been premature in your rush to call them wrong.
I have neither mischaracterized anyone's views, and I'm certainly not wrong.
Someone said this about Michelle Obama:
"I don't think it's appropriate for a Harvard educated executive who resides in a million dollar residence who is in line to become the first lady to say what she said. She should be proud to be an American from the day she was born into the best country in the world. She should understand the sacrifice of MILLIONS of Americans white black etc.. that gave HER the OPPORTUNITY she had. I'm sick of hearing crp like this--if you didnt like the country--go live in Canada."
and I responded with this:
"And herein lies the HUGE GAPING chasm between how many whites and black view this country. You do not know what her experiences were, nor do you know even the average or typical black experience in this country. I think it is beyond presumptuous to say that the moment you were born you should love and be proud of something. If you came from a group of people who were historically mistreated, and who continued to not recieve justice, adequate services etc in your country, who, even as one of the brightest people in your class in your elite college were ostracized, made a spectacle of, etc, i think you'd understand her position better. By the way, she said the first time she was 'really' proud, not the first time she was proud, there is a rather sizeable difference in meaning between the 2.
If you caught the kind of hell my father caught growing up in the Jim Crow south, and who is a vietnam vet, btw, I think you'd be singing a different song.
You have to consider people's perspectives and life experiences. Having it hard, in terms of poverty is one thing, having that and discrimination on numerous levels and the daily attack on your psyche is something that you dont ever consider, but you could understand it if you tried to."
And I'd think in light of the article that started this thread, said person and others who think like him (assuming there are others) would see my point. Which was why i said this:
I do recall certain people on this board saying you should be proud of your country from the moment you are born, and
other arguments which I think are nonsense. My response was, you have no idea what it must have been like to be a black woman in 1980
at an elite ivy league school, or what her life experiences were like. I didn't know what her exact experiences were, but as a black man
with some very interesting experiences of my own, it was not difficult to imagine. As it turns out I was correct, and again there really is no
surprise there, but i hoped for more dialougue about this than has occurred, particularly from those who were on the wrong side in this.
killa--You sound like a man who has a lot of hate in him. You see only 1 view and don't acknowledge the great side of the USA like Obama did tonight. All people have opportunity in the US---like Obama said this is the only country in the world where he could acheive what he has--I don't hold hatred towards German people today for what their fathers did to my ancestors--but you seem to hold a grudge. People can choose to move on or live in the past.
Hey, how about you stick to the points and stop trying to psycho-analyze me over the internets cause i dont hat anybody. I'm actually quite the festive guy.
This is the only country in the world where he could achieve what he has? Really? lol. He couldn't become a lawyer and a presidential candidate anywhere else in the world? Well thats news to me.
You dont hate Germans, and I dont hate white people so I guess we're even. Difference is, you dont live in Germany, and I suppose if you did you would probably challenge holocaust deniers or people telling you the holocaust was no big deal, stop living in the past.
If being aware of my heritage, and my history, and the history of this gov't and this society towards my people, means I'm living in the past, so be it. I call it, historical context. we dont live in a vacuum. I'm not angry and I'm not bitter. My wife and I are above the national average in income & education so I'm certainly not letting anything hold me back or using anything as a crutch (as I'm sure you'd say sooner or later). For me its frustrating that you dont try understand where i'm coming from. Please read this and tell me if you think it applies:
So, for example, what does it say about white rationality and white collective sanity, that in 1963--at a time when in retrospect all would agree racism was rampant in the United States, and before the passage of modern civil rights legislation--nearly two-thirds of whites, when polled, said they believed blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities--almost the same number as say this now, some forty-plus years later? What does it suggest about the extent of white folks' disconnection from the real world, that in 1962, eighty-five percent of whites said black children had just as good a chance as white children to get a good education in their communities (12)? Or that in May, 1968, seventy percent of whites said that blacks were treated the same as whites in their communities, while only seventeen percent said blacks were treated "not very well" and only 3.5 percent said blacks were treated badly? (13)?
What does it say about white folks' historic commitment to equal opportunity--and which Taranto would have us believe has only been rendered inoperative because of affirmative action--that in 1963, three-fourths of white Americans told Newsweek, "The Negro is moving too fast" in his demands for equality (14)? Or that in October 1964, nearly two-thirds of whites said that the Civil Rights Act should be enforced gradually, with an emphasis on persuading employers not to discriminate, as opposed to forcing compliance with equal opportunity requirements (15)?
What does it say about whites' tenuous grip on mental health that in mid-August 1969, forty-four percent of whites told a Newsweek/Gallup National Opinion Survey that blacks had a better chance than they did to get a good paying job--two times as many as said they would have a worse chance? Or that forty-two percent said blacks had a better chance for a good education than whites, while only seventeen percent said they would have a worse opportunity for a good education, and eighty percent saying blacks would have an equal or better chance? In that same survey, seventy percent said blacks could have improved conditions in the "slums" if they had wanted to, and were more than twice as likely to blame blacks themselves, as opposed to discrimination, for high unemployment in the black community (16).
In other words, even when racism was, by virtually all accounts (looking backward in time), institutionalized, white folks were convinced there was no real problem. Indeed, even forty years ago, whites were more likely to think that blacks had better opportunities, than to believe the opposite (and obviously accurate) thing: namely, that whites were advantaged in every realm of American life.
Truthfully, this tendency for whites to deny the extent of racism and racial injustice likely extends back far before the 1960s. Although public opinion polls in previous decades rarely if ever asked questions about the extent of racial bias or discrimination, anecdotal surveys of white opinion suggest that at no time have whites in the U.S. ever thought blacks or other people of color were getting a bad shake. White Southerners were all but convinced that their black slaves, for example, had it good, and had no reason to complain about their living conditions or lack of freedoms. After emancipation, but during the introduction of Jim Crow laws and strict Black Codes that limited where African Americans could live and work, white newspapers would regularly editorialize about the "warm relations" between whites and blacks, even as thousands of blacks were being lynched by their white compatriots.
Do you care to respond to the article at all, or do you prefer to call me hateful and tell me to get over it?
[Edited by - killa4luv on 04-17-2008 1:28 PM]
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