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David Lee is the man.....
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martin
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3/27/2008  3:51 PM
Posted by King1:

There is no way anyone could be a leader on this team. You have too big of idiots on the team and coaching staff. Lee may be over valued but I guarntee if they let him become unrestricted next year about 20 teams will want him.

I think you are wrong. If Lee because unrestricted 29 teams would want him and the other team just didn't know about it.
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King1
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3/27/2008  3:55 PM
Cosmic I must ask you at your job do you tell everyone how your boss sucks and how bad your job is. David has to be a company man or he could get fired. All the other morons on the team have guaranteed contracts and they dont care about winning. I think Lee and Crawford handle themselves the way any good employee would even though they have bad working conditions
martin
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3/27/2008  3:59 PM
Posted by King1:

Cosmic I must ask you at your job do you tell everyone how your boss sucks and how bad your job is. David has to be a company man or he could get fired. All the other morons on the team have guaranteed contracts and they dont care about winning. I think Lee and Crawford handle themselves the way any good employee would even though they have bad working conditions

Yes.

Trueblueballs, how the freak do you determine the leadership qualities of a person who you only watch on tv and read about and never have met? LOL. Good one man.

And tell me who on this team is poised to follow and type of leadership? marbury? Big game? Curry? Nate? the list covers just about the whole team.
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4949
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3/27/2008  4:00 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by King1:

There is no way anyone could be a leader on this team. You have too big of idiots on the team and coaching staff. Lee may be over valued but I guarntee if they let him become unrestricted next year about 20 teams will want him.

I think you are wrong. If Lee because unrestricted 29 teams would want him and the other team just didn't know about it.

If I recall correctly, in a few discussions, in between season last year, some teams asked for Lee to be included in a deal and isiah flat out said no? Didn't his name also come up in some kind of discussion for Kobe, before Kobe changed his mind? Lee is a very valuable piece and other GM's know it.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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3/27/2008  4:07 PM
I'll tell you guys one thing. If curry, nate, starbury, jeffries, james where mentioned in any deal, you'd see the interested GM's running (not walking) out the confernce room door, with their jackets draped over their arms, a half closed brief case, with documents sticking out and half eaten sandwhiches dropped to the floor, in a quick hurry to get the hel out of there.

Lee is gold.
I'll never trust this' team again.
MS
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3/27/2008  4:07 PM
This team needs the following, an Oakley, Ewing coaching staff to go with a good defensive minded head coach, no eddy or jamal, moving nate, buying out jerome. Isiah selling popcorn and having no relationship with this organization.

Maybe we could move Zach for Jason Richardson I'm sure Jordan would go for that, he would actually be a better fit for this team.

I think if you can move Nate or Balkman (although I would like to move chandler) instead for Lowry you do it make a push for Jarvaris see what it will take.

We already have Lee so he give us plenty of energy, the guy is a 14pt 14rb player when he starts i don't see how the kid is over valued at all every team in the league wants the guy.
PresIke
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3/27/2008  4:29 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Lee has also become Isiah's mouthpiece before and after games sounding just like Crawful now so I don't quite see how he's "the man".

I like Lee but he rushes to rebound by virtue of leaving his man early in plays. He is an atrocious defender. He needs to hit the weights. He simply cannot be a starter in this league on a winning team with such an undeveloped offensive game and a nonexistant defensive game.

David Lee has a lot of work to do and even then I see him being a serviceable-to-solid bench player for a good team in the future but not a starter on a championship contender.

We definitely overrate and overvalue Lee and the bottom line is that he's doing it on a bad team filled with passionateless scum.

I can understand that one might feel Lee gets special treatment and praise, but I don't believe most are overrating him as much as being proud of and celebrating his being one of the bright spots that has persevered while chaos has ensued.

There are few players in the NBA who do not have significant flaws, but Lee brings so many pros that the cons are low, and we've also seen a willingness to improve weaker aspects of his game. Some work has netted better results (like FT shooting and improved post game) while others have yet to be realized in a way that would lower criticisms of those areas of his game (his improved outside jumper is still weak and defense has not gotten good enough to call him a good defender yet).

What we also learn from teams like Houston, Philly, Portland and to a lesser extent Detroit and San Antonio (because of their higher levels of overall talent) is that teams can do reasonably with less talent if there is strong team chemistry, and buying into a system that builds on strengths, and often emphasizes team defense which can mask individual weaknesses. The Knicks used to be like this, and so did Miami, both of whom did not have the players like Jordan on their team, but had bought into their team concept and roles.

Remember when Detroit got Ben Wallace, who has never developed any real offensive game. He is incredibly flawed, but I suspect most would not believe the Pistons to have won a championship without him.

Teams that win need guys like Lee as much as they need a superstar. Every piece is vital to team's, success, so while the stars usually get credit, often key role players are very much a part of the equation, but to less fanfare. This is, I suspect, increasingly hard in the NBA where egos are often huge because of backgrounds that start at a young age where folks are treated like royalty and celebrities.



[Edited by - PresIke on 03-27-2008 4:31 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 03-27-2008 4:32 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
TrueBlue
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3/27/2008  5:06 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by King1:

Cosmic I must ask you at your job do you tell everyone how your boss sucks and how bad your job is. David has to be a company man or he could get fired. All the other morons on the team have guaranteed contracts and they dont care about winning. I think Lee and Crawford handle themselves the way any good employee would even though they have bad working conditions

Yes.

Trueblueballs, how the freak do you determine the leadership qualities of a person who you only watch on tv and read about and never have met? LOL. Good one man.

And tell me who on this team is poised to follow and type of leadership? marbury? Big game? Curry? Nate? the list covers just about the whole team.


Wouldn't this also apply to those who claim he is one?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
King1
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3/27/2008  5:12 PM
I can tell he leads by example. You cant be a leader on this team. There is no leadership or discipline by the coaches and you can lead morons. I can say no one on the team works harder on their game than David.
TMS
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3/27/2008  5:12 PM
he's probably the only guy that i honestly believe loves being a NY Knick.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TrueBlue
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3/27/2008  5:23 PM
Posted by King1:

I can tell he leads by example. You cant be a leader on this team. There is no leadership or discipline by the coaches and you can lead morons. I can say no one on the team works harder on their game than David.

I wouldn't say he works harder on his game than anyone else, how do you know this? He may but none of us really know for sure. It's been noted no one on the team spends more time in the gym than Zach, even Lee admitted this early in the season when the team was asked what kind of teammate and player Zach is. These are the kind of statements I'm referring to.

Fans take Lee's positive attributes and transcend them to other areas unsubstantiated.

Does Lee have a solid 10-15ft jumper?

Does Lees know how to put the ball all the floor consistently within 10-15ft of the basket and make moves against equal to better counterparts?

Does Lee have a go to move that's unstoppable?

Is Lee's body noticeably different since he's came into the league?

Is Lee a solid post and perimeter defender?

One thing Lee does a little better is scoring from the baseline/off the box with a power dribble spin move to the basket. I'd say he gives more effort on the court than anyone else, Nate and Crawford being close seconds. Lee definitely loves New York but once again our fanfare needs to be tempered just a tad.




[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-27-2008 4:51 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bonn1997
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3/27/2008  5:47 PM
Fat Zach spends time in the gym? Doing what?
TrueBlue
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3/27/2008  5:55 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Fat Zach spends time in the gym? Doing what?

Working on his offensive game and chucking shots. Zach is the best scorer on the team. I will say his shooting range and being able to get his shot off when faced up against his defender has impressed me to a small degree. What's interesting when looking at Zach, in his case, it doesn't matter how much of a gym rat he is, when he's inherently selfish, plays only 1-way, is a bad teammate, and has poor character.

We need complete players on and off the court, even if they have certain limitations as a basketball player.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bonn1997
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3/27/2008  6:15 PM
Oh, I think of lifting weights and doing aerobics when someone uses the term "gym rat." Yeah, I could see Zach practicing spin moves on the court 24/7 if that's what you meant.
TrueBlue
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3/27/2008  6:30 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Oh, I think of lifting weights and doing aerobics when someone uses the term "gym rat." Yeah, I could see Zach practicing spin moves on the court 24/7 if that's what you meant.

I think of a boxing punching bag, running endless amount of setters, running steps, doing a ton of calisthenics, working on footwork and spacing on the court etc etc. I can't think of any player on the team judging by their play on the court being considered a gym rat.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
tkf
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3/27/2008  6:54 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by King1:

I can tell he leads by example. You cant be a leader on this team. There is no leadership or discipline by the coaches and you can lead morons. I can say no one on the team works harder on their game than David.

I wouldn't say he works harder on his game than anyone else, how do you know this? He may but none of us really know for sure. It's been noted no one on the team spends more time in the gym than Zach, even Lee admitted this early in the season when the team was asked what kind of teammate and player Zach is. These are the kind of statements I'm referring to.

Fans take Lee's positive attributes and transcend them to other areas unsubstantiated.

Does Lee have a solid 10-15ft jumper?

Does Lees know how to put the ball all the floor consistently within 10-15ft of the basket and make moves against equal to better counterparts?

Does Lee have a go to move that's unstoppable?

Is Lee's body noticeably different since he's came into the league?

Is Lee a solid post and perimeter defender?

One thing Lee does a little better is scoring from the baseline/off the box with a power dribble spin move to the basket. I'd say he gives more effort on the court than anyone else, Nate and Crawford being close seconds. Lee definitely loves New York but once again our fanfare needs to be tempered just a tad.




[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-27-2008 4:51 PM]


I can take those questions and ask them of several players in the league who people think are very good players and the answer would be not to a lot of them...

Gerald wallace, kirlenko to name a few.. people on this site and others, wet their pants over these guys but...

neither has a solid 10-15 foot jumper

neither has any real moves putting the ball on the floor and beating eqaual or better players.. Lee puts the ball on the floor as well as either guy getting to the hoop.

Neither guy has a go to move that is unstoppable..

and both are overrated defensive players, while lee is a better rebounder than both by a decent margin..

Yet with all of these, gerald wallace and kirelenko were heralded as gods by some...

So why should we temper our fanfare? We have a young player, that has improved his game every year, is a hard worker,loves NY, high character guy, and mesh with any unit on the floor...

We cry, bitch and moan about the lazy, selfish, unmotivated check collectors we have on this team, we created hundreds of threads complaining about them, yet we need to temper temper our fanfare over a guy who plays the game the right way?

wow..... sort of hyprocritical,don't you think?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Marv
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3/27/2008  7:05 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Oh, I think of lifting weights and doing aerobics when someone uses the term "gym rat." Yeah, I could see Zach practicing spin moves on the court 24/7 if that's what you meant.

I think of a boxing punching bag, running endless amount of setters, running steps, doing a ton of calisthenics, working on footwork and spacing on the court etc etc. I can't think of any player on the team judging by their play on the court being considered a gym rat.
TrueBlue
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3/27/2008  8:02 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Oh, I think of lifting weights and doing aerobics when someone uses the term "gym rat." Yeah, I could see Zach practicing spin moves on the court 24/7 if that's what you meant.

I think of a boxing punching bag, running endless amount of setters, running steps, doing a ton of calisthenics, working on footwork and spacing on the court etc etc. I can't think of any player on the team judging by their play on the court being considered a gym rat.




LOL @ Jerome's calisthenics
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TrueBlue
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3/27/2008  8:28 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by King1:

I can tell he leads by example. You cant be a leader on this team. There is no leadership or discipline by the coaches and you can lead morons. I can say no one on the team works harder on their game than David.

I wouldn't say he works harder on his game than anyone else, how do you know this? He may but none of us really know for sure. It's been noted no one on the team spends more time in the gym than Zach, even Lee admitted this early in the season when the team was asked what kind of teammate and player Zach is. These are the kind of statements I'm referring to.

Fans take Lee's positive attributes and transcend them to other areas unsubstantiated.

Does Lee have a solid 10-15ft jumper?

Does Lees know how to put the ball all the floor consistently within 10-15ft of the basket and make moves against equal to better counterparts?

Does Lee have a go to move that's unstoppable?

Is Lee's body noticeably different since he's came into the league?

Is Lee a solid post and perimeter defender?

One thing Lee does a little better is scoring from the baseline/off the box with a power dribble spin move to the basket. I'd say he gives more effort on the court than anyone else, Nate and Crawford being close seconds. Lee definitely loves New York but once again our fanfare needs to be tempered just a tad.




[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-27-2008 4:51 PM]


I can take those questions and ask them of several players in the league who people think are very good players and the answer would be not to a lot of them...

Gerald wallace, kirlenko to name a few.. people on this site and others, wet their pants over these guys but...

neither has a solid 10-15 foot jumper

neither has any real moves putting the ball on the floor and beating eqaual or better players.. Lee puts the ball on the floor as well as either guy getting to the hoop.

Neither guy has a go to move that is unstoppable..

and both are overrated defensive players, while lee is a better rebounder than both by a decent margin..

Yet with all of these, gerald wallace and kirelenko were heralded as gods by some...

So why should we temper our fanfare? We have a young player, that has improved his game every year, is a hard worker,loves NY, high character guy, and mesh with any unit on the floor...

We cry, bitch and moan about the lazy, selfish, unmotivated check collectors we have on this team, we created hundreds of threads complaining about them, yet we need to temper temper our fanfare over a guy who plays the game the right way?

wow..... sort of hyprocritical,don't you think?



I don't care about Gerald Wallace or Kirilenko they aren't Knicks. I will say when people discuss those guys I haven't seen them go overboard. They comment about what they specialize in which is defense and how they are extremely versatile players. It would be hypocritical of me if I were someone who did what you said. Kirilenko is overpaid if you want to know my personal opinion Heck I feel Shawn Marion is overrated so obviously Lee would have plenty of work to do in my mind. If we want to play the political/strawman game..... the same people who love Lee and feels he such a leader are the same ones that don't want to pay him anything more than 5yr/$50mil. This figure being a far cry from what players like Wallace, Kirilenko, Marion, or even lesser players make. While me being the strong critique I am feel he should be paid this much probably even $55mil because I feel this is what his market value suggest his value is. We don't need to discuss anything negative about our player but let's not make Lee out to be more than he is. He's pretty much the same player he was when he first got here. Which isn't a total negative because he was one of the few NBA ready players from his draft class.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
tkf
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3/27/2008  8:41 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by King1:

I can tell he leads by example. You cant be a leader on this team. There is no leadership or discipline by the coaches and you can lead morons. I can say no one on the team works harder on their game than David.

I wouldn't say he works harder on his game than anyone else, how do you know this? He may but none of us really know for sure. It's been noted no one on the team spends more time in the gym than Zach, even Lee admitted this early in the season when the team was asked what kind of teammate and player Zach is. These are the kind of statements I'm referring to.

Fans take Lee's positive attributes and transcend them to other areas unsubstantiated.

Does Lee have a solid 10-15ft jumper?

Does Lees know how to put the ball all the floor consistently within 10-15ft of the basket and make moves against equal to better counterparts?

Does Lee have a go to move that's unstoppable?

Is Lee's body noticeably different since he's came into the league?

Is Lee a solid post and perimeter defender?

One thing Lee does a little better is scoring from the baseline/off the box with a power dribble spin move to the basket. I'd say he gives more effort on the court than anyone else, Nate and Crawford being close seconds. Lee definitely loves New York but once again our fanfare needs to be tempered just a tad.




[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-27-2008 4:51 PM]


I can take those questions and ask them of several players in the league who people think are very good players and the answer would be not to a lot of them...

Gerald wallace, kirlenko to name a few.. people on this site and others, wet their pants over these guys but...

neither has a solid 10-15 foot jumper

neither has any real moves putting the ball on the floor and beating eqaual or better players.. Lee puts the ball on the floor as well as either guy getting to the hoop.

Neither guy has a go to move that is unstoppable..

and both are overrated defensive players, while lee is a better rebounder than both by a decent margin..

Yet with all of these, gerald wallace and kirelenko were heralded as gods by some...

So why should we temper our fanfare? We have a young player, that has improved his game every year, is a hard worker,loves NY, high character guy, and mesh with any unit on the floor...

We cry, bitch and moan about the lazy, selfish, unmotivated check collectors we have on this team, we created hundreds of threads complaining about them, yet we need to temper temper our fanfare over a guy who plays the game the right way?

wow..... sort of hyprocritical,don't you think?



I don't care about Gerald Wallace or Kirilenko they aren't Knicks. I will say when people discuss those guys I haven't seen them go overboard. They comment about what they specialize in which is defense and how they are extremely versatile players. It would be hypocritical of me if I were someone who did what you said. Kirilenko is overpaid if you want to know my personal opinion Heck I feel Shawn Marion is overrated so obviously Lee would have plenty of work to do in my mind. If we want to play the political/strawman game..... the same people who love Lee and feels he such a leader are the same ones that don't want to pay him anything more than 5yr/$50mil. This figure being a far cry from what players like Wallace, Kirilenko, Marion, or even lesser players make. While me being the strong critique I am feel he should be paid this much probably even $55mil because I feel this is what his market value suggest his value is. We don't need to discuss anything negative about our player but let's not make Lee out to be more than he is. He's pretty much the same player he was when he first got here. Which isn't a total negative because he was one of the few NBA ready players from his draft class.

my point is.. why is it OK to carry on in one direction about how bad some of the players are, but we have to temper our emotions, when really all we are doing is extolling the vertues we wish, with all of our hearts, the other guys would display, even if they did so just slightly? and for the record, saying that lee is worth 50 mil is no knock on lee. I think 50 mil and 5 years should be the salary for a lot of guys in this league making 60-75mil... just because some people are overpaid doesn't mean we need to overpay lee and doesn't mean I or anyone else think he is not as good either....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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