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Steve Francis
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BasketballJones
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3/11/2008  3:26 PM
Steve Francis was a big big star and an awesome talent before Larry Brown got ahold of him. Larry first begged Isiah to get Francis, then undermined his confidence and left him a shattered man, just like all the other Knicks. I think that if Francis had stayed with the Knicks, Isiah would be steadily rebuilding his confidence as he is doing with the players on the current roster.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 03-11-2008 15:26]
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nysportsfan11
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3/11/2008  3:28 PM
Personal issues aside, Steve lacked the mental capacity to be a great player. All he ever had was athleticism. He's for lack of a better word....stupid. It probably had a lot to do with the lack of organized ball and the fact that his athleticism blinded a lot of coaches who didn't bother to teach him. By the time he got to the League, doing it his way, he wasn't trying to be taught, thus the uncoachable label.

Guys like LeBron, KG, Kobe, Duncan....these guys will have careers for as long as they want them because they're intelligent ball players.

It's not about book smarts either. Jason Kidd would be considered mentally retarded if he were a regular citizen, no bull****. People really used to think he was a functional illiterate. He's taken some steps to rectify that as he's gotten older and wealthier, but he still won't be mistaken for a smart dude. But the guy knows basketball. He may be one of the most intelligent basketball minds to play in the NBA. Same with Magic. Come on, you saw the Magic Hour. But even still, if not for HIV, Magic might have played 20 years.

LeBron is a freak of nature, but he sees the game better than 95% of his opponents. Jordan was the same way. That's why Kareem played for so long. Look at Mark Jackson. Mark was NEVER athletic....ever in life. Troy (Escalade) had more hops and agility than him. That **** used to bug me out growing up and watching him play in Baisley or BRC....he just out-thought and outworked everyone.

The guys who rely solely on speed and athleticism to get by...guys that the Knicks collect like trading cards...will always have short careers that make you wonder what happened. Guys like Steph and Steve who used to be able to jump out of the gym and thought that was going to be there forever will be lucky to be employed next year. If not for ridiculous contracts, they'd have been journeymen just like all the other runner/jumpers back in the day.

You cannot be a "point guard" and have a long, Hall-of-Fame career based on athleticism. Even AI, who everyone tries to use to justify that horrible combo guard era, is widely regarded among coaches and players as one of the most intelligent guys in the game. It's like anything else in life...there must be substance behind style.
Nalod
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3/11/2008  3:39 PM

FUNDAMENTALS.

in life or in basketball. Some have it, some don't.

Stevie is a very wealthy man and must be depressed because he has always been defined as a star player and not much else. Everyone pandering to his desires and telling him yes is not helpful.

nyk4ever
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3/11/2008  3:41 PM
Posted by nysportsfan11:

Personal issues aside, Steve lacked the mental capacity to be a great player. All he ever had was athleticism. He's for lack of a better word....stupid. It probably had a lot to do with the lack of organized ball and the fact that his athleticism blinded a lot of coaches who didn't bother to teach him. By the time he got to the League, doing it his way, he wasn't trying to be taught, thus the uncoachable label.

Guys like LeBron, KG, Kobe, Duncan....these guys will have careers for as long as they want them because they're intelligent ball players.

It's not about book smarts either. Jason Kidd would be considered mentally retarded if he were a regular citizen, no bull****. People really used to think he was a functional illiterate. He's taken some steps to rectify that as he's gotten older and wealthier, but he still won't be mistaken for a smart dude. But the guy knows basketball. He may be one of the most intelligent basketball minds to play in the NBA. Same with Magic. Come on, you saw the Magic Hour. But even still, if not for HIV, Magic might have played 20 years.

LeBron is a freak of nature, but he sees the game better than 95% of his opponents. Jordan was the same way. That's why Kareem played for so long. Look at Mark Jackson. Mark was NEVER athletic....ever in life. Troy (Escalade) had more hops and agility than him. That **** used to bug me out growing up and watching him play in Baisley or BRC....he just out-thought and outworked everyone.

The guys who rely solely on speed and athleticism to get by...guys that the Knicks collect like trading cards...will always have short careers that make you wonder what happened. Guys like Steph and Steve who used to be able to jump out of the gym and thought that was going to be there forever will be lucky to be employed next year. If not for ridiculous contracts, they'd have been journeymen just like all the other runner/jumpers back in the day.

You cannot be a "point guard" and have a long, Hall-of-Fame career based on athleticism. Even AI, who everyone tries to use to justify that horrible combo guard era, is widely regarded among coaches and players as one of the most intelligent guys in the game. It's like anything else in life...there must be substance behind style.

I nominate this post for one of the best posts in the history of UK. Awesome insight and 100% dead on with Francis/Marbury and the like.

The one thing I'll add to your argument is that guys like Francis/Marbury, they have always been so talented and so athletic (as you said) that when they were in high-school and college, they were the ones calling the shots, not being coached. They were coddled by their coaches and by their entourages and in the end neither one of them had the success that they should have had because of it.

High-School and College are the two places where you really LEARN to play the game and when you think you don't have anything to learn and can still play at a top level during these two times, it will kill goto your head and it will kill your chances of ever maturing into the basketball player you can be. Guys like Lebron and Kobe are so smart and so hard-working and so willing to learn that they can get by being so talented. Unfortunately for guys like Stevie and Steph, it's not the case, but what they do they care, they are multi-millionaires.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Panos
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3/11/2008  3:53 PM
Guys, this is all true. My question is, at 31 years old, how has all of his "athleticism" disappeared? He's not old!
Bippity10
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3/11/2008  3:57 PM
Posted by Panos:

Guys, this is all true. My question is, at 31 years old, how has all of his "athleticism" disappeared? He's not old!

Injuries. Lot's of minutes can beat up the legs a bit. I don't think it's completely gone for either of them. Just enough to keep them from physically dominating all that they play against. Now they have to earn their money through team play and neither know how. The sad thing is Steph has a better grasp of team play than Stevie does.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 11-03-2008 3:58 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
Panos
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3/11/2008  4:12 PM
Oh, and another thing. "Stevie?" What's with that?
Bippity10
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3/11/2008  4:13 PM
Posted by Panos:

Oh, and another thing. "Stevie?" What's with that?

It's cute
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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3/11/2008  4:16 PM
Little Stevie would be fine, if only he could be enveloped once again in the Skipper's warm embrace.

I have great hope that the Skipper will bring him back as a member of the crew. Then Stevie and Zeke's li'l buddy Marbury can both help mentor Derrick Rose.



[Edited by - basketballjones on 03-11-2008 16:16]
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TrueBlue
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3/11/2008  4:18 PM
nysportsfan11 good posting I'd also like to add the other major difference isn't just BB IQ/headknowledge but the Drive/Passion/Desire to be the best at their craft. They don't juts tell themselves, they're third person, and others THEY ARE THE BEST, they put in the work at being the best. Those guy also approach the game as if the odds are always against them but play with the mentality there's no way you'll beat them or outwork them.

Marbury's interview the other day coming back to the team was interesting. He spoke as if he understood his overall situation even expressing some thoughtful gratitude towards Dolan. But one of his last closing statements was...."Once My Ankle Fully Heals I Know Next Yr Will Be Different and Can't Be Any Tougher Than What I've Had To Endure This Yr. Next Yr It's On! Next Yr It's On=Translation= "I'm Going Back To Being Starbury". He only has the desire to satisfy his ego not to be a great basketball player.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-11-2008 3:51 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bippity10
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3/11/2008  4:36 PM
trueblue and Sportsfan: You guys are dead on and I agree with everything. I always say that the best player that ever played for me was probably the least talented PG that I ever coached. but he had this innate desire to destroy everyone he plays against. When we lost, it was always his fault even when it wasn't. when a teammate missed a shot it was because he needed to make a better pass. If the team played poor d, or shot poorly he felt he didn't set the tone. If an offensive player was confident enough to take a shot on him then he felt he wasn't playing d hard enough. If coach failed to call a timeout he should have reminded coach. He was in my office so many times trying to learn something that I would have to run him out.

He was scoring 25-30 a night but when the new hot shot freshman played he went to watch because he wanted to learn some new moves. His two biggest strenghts were accountability and a willingness to learn at every step. Two things Steve and Stephie never had
I just hope that people will like me
Steve Francis

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