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Nate 'The Grrrrrr-8' Killed it tonight
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4949
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3/9/2008  1:40 PM
Posted by PresIke:

Nate is an emotionally intense guy so when he displays it on the court sometimes, this turns some fans off, which I can understand. He got a technical foul at one point after scoring and then screaming towards the crowd. It wasn't even clear why he got a tech, and the announcers did not seem to think it was warranted, but just his reputation, and repeated excitable response may have played a role.

And you don't see Lebron or Kobe screaming towards the crowd. They don't need a reputation. They just go out and play. Period.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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bigbeast
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3/9/2008  1:50 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by PresIke:

Nate is an emotionally intense guy so when he displays it on the court sometimes, this turns some fans off, which I can understand. He got a technical foul at one point after scoring and then screaming towards the crowd. It wasn't even clear why he got a tech, and the announcers did not seem to think it was warranted, but just his reputation, and repeated excitable response may have played a role.

And you don't see Lebron or Kobe screaming towards the crowd. They don't need a reputation. They just go out and play. Period.

You must not be paying attention. During the Raptors game, Lebron was going back and forth with two female fans (one was the girlfriend of Bosh I believe) while on the court. How about Lebron telling Spike he was going to drop 50.

Kobe, Bird, Malone, Barkley, Jordan, Reggie, John Starks, Vernon Maxwell etc......there is a long list of players, superstars, mid-level, bench players and so on that chat it up with the fans during games.

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
PresIke
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3/9/2008  1:50 PM
“I guess my game was flowing today,” said Robinson, who had a hard time enjoying the feat in the wake of his team’s sixth straight loss. “Forty-five pretty much washes away.”

I hear what you're saying 4949, but the weird bit is that this intensity is part of his game, and he's done a much better job of being more under control this year. He still has some moments, even last night, but I really think he cares about doing what it takes to win, and I suspect the passion we see on the court is why he has made adjustments.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
nixluva
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3/9/2008  1:51 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by PresIke:

I disagree that he is all show as well. Are Lebron and Kobe all show because they often make their defenders look silly?

This is what I mean. One great game and suddenly he' s up there with Lebron and Kobe.

Come on man' Lebron and Kobe are 'TRUE' superstars of the game. I will give Nate just one point.

I once said that if he was two to three inches taller, then no doubt he'd be a star. But because of his migetness, how many points has he been denied, because his little bitty arms couldn't get to the rim fast enough? I warned against drafting this little pigsqweek because of the hieght disadvantage, but a few thought it would've been a mistake.

Nate's a nice asset to have on the bench and not as a sixth man. He would make any' bench deep and that's about it.
Come on man. If you think about it Nate has adjusted very well to the big man defenders in the league. He has learned how to get his shots off and how much space he needs. The guy is starting to live up to his potential and you have to give him credit for that. He started in Summer League and then Camp and hasn't really been given the chance to shine like last night. Now we can see tho that he can do a lot more than he's been allowed to so far. We really do have some players that we can move forward with on this team, but it's all too convenient to just bash the team and not give anyone any credit due to the losses. I think that's being unfair to some extent. We don't know how much of that is the roster imbalance or poor coaching etc. I want to see more of our young players. No more Malik. Why wasn't Morris starting? This is the time to get these kids more minutes.

The young guys like Nate, Lee, Balk, Chan etc. are giving me some reason for hope. Against a very talented young Portland team, our young players show some future prospects as well. Many of us have been saying that we've got some talent to work with and it seems to be true. Now we need to find the needed players to make this really work and get over the hump and win games. This summer will be very important for this team and I hope whoever is in control can make the right decisions.
newyorknewyork
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3/9/2008  1:58 PM
Posted by 4949:

And if Nate doesn't work out, your left with a little buster and a floor general who can't score.

If your always scared about if something deosn't workout then you will never accomplish anything. If you get a floor general to spit time wiht Nate and it doesn't workout, at least you had a plan or a vision.

How wouldn't Nate workout though? Your asking him to do what he does best. Score, energize, create plays. The risk of him not working out would be minimized. Asking him to turn into a superstar PG who can lead this team would be a risk. Asking him to be who he is, just more mature isn't. Instead you created his role and put him into a position of strength.

Remember Ward & Childs. Ward new his role was to defend and be a floor general. Childs new his role was to defend and provide a scoring punch at PG since Ward wasn't cappable. Both player complimented each other. Both players skills did what the other player couldn't. We needed scoring at PG we put in Childs. We needed a floor general to take care of the ball we put out Ward.
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PresIke
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3/9/2008  2:01 PM
If we really want to get into it, and cause controversy, there is also the potential cultural component.

I'll just throw one word out there...

braggadocio

Why does this type of behavior bother some, more than others, while some actually enjoy it?


Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Cash
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3/9/2008  2:04 PM
Posted by PresIke:

Just a sick display of what he's capable of tonight against the Blazers. He made Steve Blake look like a complete statue more than a few times, including once where Blake was literally standing upright and frozen as Nate blew by after crossing Steve over multiple times, and the one were Blake lost his sneaker...haha.

45 pts, 16-28 fg, 2-6 3pt, 11-13 ft, 6 rb, 6 ast, 2 to, 1 stl, too many amazing plays to recall.

I was thoroughly impressed with his play, as it was also in the flow of the game. It was key to our competitiveness.

Makes me wonder if we keep him what kind of player we should draft.

Oh, he is the number one keeper on this team. The only place his size really matters is on defense, so we preferably need to draft a guy with some size.

I've loved nates better decisions lately, but I've gotten the feeling he has been holding back his shot. I don't think this is a good thing, cause he is the best shooter on this team.

I think the best thing to do would be to match him up with a point guard with some size. Darren Collinson(6'1) and Michael Westbrook(6'4) are a little short, but they both have very good length with their height. They are both very good defensive players as well.

I say fu*k it with nate. We have to stop worrying about his size and make other teams match up with his quickness.

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3/9/2008  2:04 PM
If we keep Nate, it's difficult to see him play with someone like Craw, as a starter. Maybe he's a 3rd guard, but then it seems that we really need a big Jason Kidd-like PG, who's big enough to guard 2's, and is not a scoring point.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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3/9/2008  2:11 PM
Cash, you stated pretty much what I just posted...haha.

I also wanted to state to others who didn't watch, that the "crossovers" Nate performed were not "Crawford-like" for the most part. He didn't dribble behind his back, or stand in one place swinging his body while dribbling back and forth.

Nate would commit his body to one direction, and then in a flash, cut back (very much like a running back) and switch directions, and sometimes do it again. It was simply awesome to watch, and my friend was like "his center of gravity is so low, it reminds me of a running back." Of course, I reminded him that Nate played running back in college, but it's kind of a different way of crossing over than the more traditional A.I./Crawford/Rucker style, and seems more about legitimately creating space than just showing off.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
4949
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3/9/2008  2:24 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by PresIke:

Nate is an emotionally intense guy so when he displays it on the court sometimes, this turns some fans off, which I can understand. He got a technical foul at one point after scoring and then screaming towards the crowd. It wasn't even clear why he got a tech, and the announcers did not seem to think it was warranted, but just his reputation, and repeated excitable response may have played a role.

And you don't see Lebron or Kobe screaming towards the crowd. They don't need a reputation. They just go out and play. Period.

You must not be paying attention. During the Raptors game, Lebron was going back and forth with two female fans (one was the girlfriend of Bosh I believe) while on the court. How about Lebron telling Spike he was going to drop 50.

Kobe, Bird, Malone, Barkley, Jordan, Reggie, John Starks, Vernon Maxwell etc......there is a long list of players, superstars, mid-level, bench players and so on that chat it up with the fans during games.

Auuuuuuh, again. Your listing some pretty big names there, who can back it all up regularly. Trust me, Nate's gonna be just little old nate again come next game.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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3/9/2008  2:25 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

I'm keep it real my friend. I don't lose my mind over this game because they didn't win. Like I said, it's one game. Has he been playing been better this season? Sure. Has he improved attitude wise? Eh. Has he improved in-game decision wise? No. Maybe that comes with maturity and that's fine but I'm not ready to christen the man the new midget superstar because of one game. I am able to stay on level ground especially with a team that has disappointed people for years.
Fixed that for you


[Edited by - buddapaw on 03-09-2008 07:26 AM]
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4949
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3/9/2008  2:26 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by PresIke:

I disagree that he is all show as well. Are Lebron and Kobe all show because they often make their defenders look silly?

This is what I mean. One great game and suddenly he' s up there with Lebron and Kobe.

Come on man' Lebron and Kobe are 'TRUE' superstars of the game. I will give Nate just one point.

I once said that if he was two to three inches taller, then no doubt he'd be a star. But because of his migetness, how many points has he been denied, because his little bitty arms couldn't get to the rim fast enough? I warned against drafting this little pigsqweek because of the hieght disadvantage, but a few thought it would've been a mistake.

Nate's a nice asset to have on the bench and not as a sixth man. He would make any' bench deep and that's about it.
Come on man. If you think about it Nate has adjusted very well to the big man defenders in the league. He has learned how to get his shots off and how much space he needs. The guy is starting to live up to his potential and you have to give him credit for that. He started in Summer League and then Camp and hasn't really been given the chance to shine like last night. Now we can see tho that he can do a lot more than he's been allowed to so far. We really do have some players that we can move forward with on this team, but it's all too convenient to just bash the team and not give anyone any credit due to the losses. I think that's being unfair to some extent. We don't know how much of that is the roster imbalance or poor coaching etc. I want to see more of our young players. No more Malik. Why wasn't Morris starting? This is the time to get these kids more minutes.

The young guys like Nate, Lee, Balk, Chan etc. are giving me some reason for hope. Against a very talented young Portland team, our young players show some future prospects as well. Many of us have been saying that we've got some talent to work with and it seems to be true. Now we need to find the needed players to make this really work and get over the hump and win games. This summer will be very important for this team and I hope whoever is in control can make the right decisions.

Hey, that's fine if he's finally' living up to his potential, but let's not put him up there with Lebron and Kobe. Nates a credit to short people and that's as good as he's gonna get. He's deep bench material.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Cash
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3/9/2008  2:29 PM
Posted by PresIke:

If we keep Nate, it's difficult to see him play with someone like Craw, as a starter. Maybe he's a 3rd guard, but then it seems that we really need a big Jason Kidd-like PG, who's big enough to guard 2's, and is not a scoring point.

I don't think nate can play with craw at all. Nates shooting pecentage(3pt) was much better last season and I think that was largely because marbury was good at driving and kicking out. Crawford never really creates any shots for anyone but himself. Craw dominates the ball, and basically just gives it up when he has to. I think we might have created some demand for craw this season, so I think we might get something tasty back.

Plus Crawford's defense isn't very good. I think if we place nate next to a guy who will distribute, and will play tough defense next to him, we will be ok. I think we don't necessarily need the tallest guy so mcuh as we need a tough defender in general and a distributor playing next to him.

4949
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3/9/2008  2:29 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by 4949:

And if Nate doesn't work out, your left with a little buster and a floor general who can't score.

If your always scared about if something deosn't workout then you will never accomplish anything. If you get a floor general to spit time wiht Nate and it doesn't workout, at least you had a plan or a vision.

How wouldn't Nate workout though? Your asking him to do what he does best. Score, energize, create plays. The risk of him not working out would be minimized. Asking him to turn into a superstar PG who can lead this team would be a risk. Asking him to be who he is, just more mature isn't. Instead you created his role and put him into a position of strength.

Remember Ward & Childs. Ward new his role was to defend and be a floor general. Childs new his role was to defend and provide a scoring punch at PG since Ward wasn't cappable. Both player complimented each other. Both players skills did what the other player couldn't. We needed scoring at PG we put in Childs. We needed a floor general to take care of the ball we put out Ward.

isiah had a plan and a vision and it turned out disasterous. Mentioning childs and ward doesn't give any worth either. Let's see what nate does next game or two. Let's see if he lives up to the call of superstar.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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3/9/2008  2:31 PM
Nate is another manifestation of how badly this roster is structured. He's nothing but a one dimensional, undisciplined chucker, who needs to have the ball in his hands in order to be effective. Offensive production doesn't impress me unless it's done within a flow of the scheme, produces off of others, at a high efficiency rate, and makes others in the system better. If such player provides little to no D then he starts to cancel most of what he brings to the table offensively.



Let's KEEP IT REAL folks. Any player with average, decent, to good offensive skills can score in this league if given those opportunities. The league is geared towards offensive players What does a player do when those chances are limited? What other intangibles does the player bring to the game? As we can see Nate is on his way to possibly becoming a player like Stephon Marbury instead of a player like Kevin Johnson. I'm not that impressed with Nate, although he may have made slight improvement.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-09-2008 1:47 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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3/9/2008  2:38 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Nate is another manifestation of how badly this roster is structured. He's nothing but a one dimensional, undisciplined chucker, who needs to have the ball in his hands in order to be effective. Offensive production doesn't impress me unless it's done within a flow of the scheme and produce off of others, at a high efficiency rate, and makes others in the system better. If such player provides little to no D then he starts to cancel most of what he brings to the table offensively.



Let's KEEP IT REAL folks. Any player with average, decent, to good offensive skills can score in this league if given those opportunities. The league is geared towards offensive players What does a player do when those chances are limited? What other intangibles does the player bring to the game? As we can see Nate is on his way to possibly becoming a player like Stephon Marbury instead of a player like Kevin Johnson. I'm not that impressed with Nate, although he may have made slight improvement.

you have no idea what you are talking about. Nate is not one dimensional.

The dude rebounds, passes, drives, shoots, and is on top of every lose ball out there. He doesn't need the ball to be effective cause he is a very good shooter. Right now, no one is setting him up with open shots, cause we don't have a pg on the roster. And, his defense is fine against pg's. The biggest problem with our defense is that our bigs can't hold their own, so we constantly have to double with our guards, which creates open perimeter shots.
4949
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3/9/2008  2:39 PM
Posted by PresIke:

If we really want to get into it, and cause controversy, there is also the potential cultural component.

I'll just throw one word out there...

braggadocio

Why does this type of behavior bother some, more than others, while some actually enjoy it?

Why do we need it to begin with? What does it accomplish? I'll go as far as saying that if nate got rid of the behavior, he'd be a much, much better person for it and it would translate into someone who can put his abililities to better use, like getting the players involved, to believe in him, rather than a big turnoff. I mean tackling Rose in the shower? Starting the big fight and suspensions against the Nuggets when it didn't need to go that far? Obviously mouthing off to Zack who threw water in his face? When's it gonna end?

When will we ever learn that it is more defeating of an attitude (behavior) than bringing a team together by just going out there and playing the game, the fundamentals of basketball? I never' liked it! I don't like it from anyone because it can be destructive and more fights in the NBA have started because of it. It's bad enough guys have to be shoved around, hit in the face and head and when your losing, now someone has to go mouth off!? It just doesn't work and never will.

There is also a big difference in celebrating vs. gloating! And nate's a gloater. starbury has had simular problems. Perhaps it's all a part of mental illness.

[Edited by - 4949 on 03-09-2008 2:40 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
Marv
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3/9/2008  2:43 PM

nate would be a dynamite 3rd guard. come in off the bench to amp the energy level, perhaps along with balkman and lee. these are all great 2nd unit guys. they can get major minutes, and on certain nights stay in the game longer than the starters. our problem is that we still need starters.
buddapaw
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3/9/2008  2:45 PM
Posted by Cash:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Nate is another manifestation of how badly this roster is structured. He's nothing but a one dimensional, undisciplined chucker, who needs to have the ball in his hands in order to be effective. Offensive production doesn't impress me unless it's done within a flow of the scheme and produce off of others, at a high efficiency rate, and makes others in the system better. If such player provides little to no D then he starts to cancel most of what he brings to the table offensively.



Let's KEEP IT REAL folks. Any player with average, decent, to good offensive skills can score in this league if given those opportunities. The league is geared towards offensive players What does a player do when those chances are limited? What other intangibles does the player bring to the game? As we can see Nate is on his way to possibly becoming a player like Stephon Marbury instead of a player like Kevin Johnson. I'm not that impressed with Nate, although he may have made slight improvement.

you have no idea what you are talking about. Nate is not one dimensional.

The dude rebounds, passes, drives, shoots, and is on top of every lose ball out there. He doesn't need the ball to be effective cause he is a very good shooter. Right now, no one is setting him up with open shots, cause we don't have a pg on the roster. And, his defense is fine against pg's. The biggest problem with our defense is that our bigs can't hold their own, so we constantly have to double with our guards, which creates open perimeter shots.

Hey Cash why do you even bother the KNICKS AND NATE SUCK PERIOD! God forbid that Nate had a great game and we actually liked it. Geez. Let me see any of you mothers go out there(I think majority of you are taller than he is) and play a quarter let a alone pretty much the entire game. He kept us in the game, took us to OT and he barely had any help yet he sucks.
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
4949
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3/9/2008  2:50 PM
Posted by Marv:


nate would be a dynamite 3rd guard. come in off the bench to amp the energy level, perhaps along with balkman and lee. these are all great 2nd unit guys. they can get major minutes, and on certain nights stay in the game longer than the starters. our problem is that we still need starters.

The problem is with this team, in the last three seasons (including this one) the Knicks have only 74 wins. We still don't know where someone like Nate fits in. We still don't know if he'd be able to fit into a situation yet, because we have not had the right players to test it yet. We don't even know if he'd make a good third guard with our team. There is such a thing as having a talented player, but chemistry has to work also and his chemistry might not work in a good two starting guard situation.

Crawford is a good scoring guard, but assist's and turnovers and the lack of defense has hurt more than his scoring. And starbury? I don't need to say anymore.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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