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Zach / Jamal trade for T-Mac in the offseason : feasible or no?
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TMS
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3/6/2008  7:09 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

People are gonna have to wake up. The only feasible plans are to buyout Zach or take back a contract worse than Zach's or give up lottery picks to entice a team to take him. The first option is the only one that makes sense.

buying out a $47 million dollar contract is not feasible in any way, shape or form, & giving up picks to entice someone to take his salary off our books is even more ridiculous... if we can't trade him then we have no other option than to play him & hope for the best... buying him out or giving up picks to unload him are not viable options.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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TMS
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3/6/2008  7:12 PM
Posted by kam77:

We may have to wait to trade Zach.
In two years for Shaq's ending deal.
Or in three years for Gilbert Arenas' new max deal.

probably so... he won't become a trade asset until the last year of his deal, which means we'd have to take on someone who's got more years left on his deal on a salary dump anyways.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
kam77
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3/6/2008  7:27 PM
I agree, it does seem like we're stuck with him. Then again, Isiah supposedly had him traded to MIL at the deadline. I guess the thinking is its easier to buy out a bunch of smaller contracts.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
bitty41
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3/6/2008  7:35 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

People are gonna have to wake up. The only feasible plans are to buyout Zach or take back a contract worse than Zach's or give up lottery picks to entice a team to take him. The first option is the only one that makes sense.


Awww look at little Bon Bon playing GM.
TrueBlue
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3/6/2008  7:40 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

Zach is a bad match for Houston. They run their offense through Yao a lot and Zach would be a distraction there as well. The only place I see Zach being wanted would be to a team that does not have an offensive post presence and has a defensive center. The only teams I see who would consider this are..

1. Denver
2. Seattle
3. Sixers
4. Memphis

I think Denver and Seattle will be major buyers for Zach. The question how much will Popcorn be raped unless he gets fired and Kiki comes in and cleans house.



Which is why we should have zero'd in on Orlando(which I was strongly encouraging) at the deadline. They at least fit your criteria.

Maybe we wouldn't have had a shot but we should have put a full court press on them to the point it should have been reported they rebuffed us royally. Instead we heard Wackass excuse me Zachass rumors of him possibly going to Milwaukee which would have saved us just a few mil if the trade went down considering the rumored names and whether or not we would retain CV.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TrueBlue
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3/6/2008  7:43 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

People are gonna have to wake up. The only feasible plans are to buyout Zach or take back a contract worse than Zach's or give up lottery picks to entice a team to take him. The first option is the only one that makes sense.

This is the conclusion I'm about at, if we don't move him over the summer or at next yr's deadline.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TMS
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3/6/2008  7:48 PM
i'm having a hard time understanding why you think it make sense for ORL to trade for Zach & not HOU? Dwight Howard plays in the post as does Yao... ORL doesn't have any big contracts to throw back in a deal other than their 3 main guys & Hedo who's having a terrific season of his own.

is Battie, Arroyo & Garrity for Zach what you were proposing? why does ORL give up all that cap space tho? at least w/HOU it's only 1 year of cap they're taking on... in ORL's case it would be 3 more years of big money salary coming back their way.

face it, there are no teams out there giving up expirings & picks for Zach, now or before the last Allstar break... i don't care what Isiah said to the press, he says things like "all our guys are untouchable" & other moronic things all the time... why would u lend any credence to him saying he wouldn't give up Zach for expirings to mean there were opportunities out there for him to do so?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
kam77
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3/6/2008  7:54 PM
Golden State? They could do a sign-n-trade over the summer. They sign Pietrus and Jasikevicius and maybe one other guy to one year deals at huge raises (like what DAL did with KVH) we send them Zach.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm

*Adonal Foyle now plays for ORL

[Edited by - kam77 on 03-06-2008 7:56 PM]
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Bonn1997
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3/6/2008  7:57 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

People are gonna have to wake up. The only feasible plans are to buyout Zach or take back a contract worse than Zach's or give up lottery picks to entice a team to take him. The first option is the only one that makes sense.

buying out a $47 million dollar contract is not feasible in any way, shape or form, & giving up picks to entice someone to take his salary off our books is even more ridiculous... if we can't trade him then we have no other option than to play him & hope for the best... buying him out or giving up picks to unload him are not viable options.
This organization has spent far more than that in buyouts. If the next GM convinces Dolan that it will be in the team's financial interest to buyout Zach because his absence will help the team more than his presence, I think Dolan would do it. Dolan has no reason to lose money just to keep Zach.
TMS
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3/6/2008  8:16 PM
i don't see how it's in the best financial interest to buyout a player that has 3 years left on his big money contract... better to get some production out of the money you're spending on him already & try to add some complementary pieces around him if that's the only other option... i'd love to be able to trade Jamal, Curry, Q Rich, Jefferies & Turd if i could also for shorter term deals... if we can unload at least 2 of the big longterm contracts on our books that extends past 2010 (Zach, Curry, Jamal, Jefferies), then we'll be in much better shape going into the big free agency sweepstakes that year.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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3/6/2008  8:25 PM
Posted by TMS:

i don't see how it's in the best financial interest to buyout a player that has 3 years left on his big money contract... better to get some production out of the money you're spending on him already & try to add some complementary pieces around him if that's the only other option... i'd love to be able to trade Jamal, Curry, Q Rich, Jefferies & Turd if i could also for shorter term deals... if we can unload at least 2 of the big longterm contracts on our books that extends past 2010 (Zach, Curry, Jamal, Jefferies), then we'll be in much better shape going into the big free agency sweepstakes that year.

If the production you're getting out of him is negative, it's better to buy him out. What would you rather do if you owned a bank: Pay a bank robber $10 to agree to never show up at your bank again (like a buyout) or have him rob $100 from you every day?
Bonn1997
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3/6/2008  8:28 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:

i don't see how it's in the best financial interest to buyout a player that has 3 years left on his big money contract... better to get some production out of the money you're spending on him already & try to add some complementary pieces around him if that's the only other option... i'd love to be able to trade Jamal, Curry, Q Rich, Jefferies & Turd if i could also for shorter term deals... if we can unload at least 2 of the big longterm contracts on our books that extends past 2010 (Zach, Curry, Jamal, Jefferies), then we'll be in much better shape going into the big free agency sweepstakes that year.

If the production you're getting out of him is negative, it's better to buy him out. What would you rather do if you owned a bank: Pay a bank robber $10 to agree to never show up at your bank again (like a buyout) or have him rob $100 from you every day?
And just to make the analogy concrete again, how would the team be doing if at the start of this season Zach had been bought out and Lee and Curry were in the starting lineup? I'd say the record would be no worse (maybe better but that's another issue) and Lee and Eddy would each be doing better and have more value.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 03-06-2008 8:29 PM]
TMS
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3/6/2008  8:30 PM
Posted by kam77:

Golden State? They could do a sign-n-trade over the summer. They sign Pietrus and Jasikevicius and maybe one other guy to one year deals at huge raises (like what DAL did with KVH) we send them Zach.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm

*Adonal Foyle now plays for ORL

[Edited by - kam77 on 03-06-2008 7:56 PM]

what about Al Harrington & Pietrus re-signed for Zach & Balk? would u make that trade? it would net us an upgrade at the SF position & allow D Lee to finally start at PF w/Chandler getting burn as Harrington's backup & Pietrus gives us added defensive depth in the backcourt, while also giving us about $10 mil in cap relief in the last year of Zach's deal... it would also give GS a low post presence which they are currently lacking... Isiah & Al have that affection for one another so it makes sense from that standpoint, but do u think GS is a good match for Zach considering the uptempo full court run & gun style they play under Don Nelson? i know Balk would be a great match there tho.

the only reason i bring up T-Mac is cuz of the obvious past connection between he & Isiah, & Isiah's penchant to go after the big names... other than him, i can see a trade for someone like Vince maybe going down using Zach as a chip... there aren't many other options out there that are realistic in my view & i've gone through every roster of every NBA team hoping to find some.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
McK1
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3/6/2008  8:31 PM
devil's advocate:

how would the team be doing if Lee and Zach would've been starting together from the beginning of the season?

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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3/6/2008  8:33 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:

i don't see how it's in the best financial interest to buyout a player that has 3 years left on his big money contract... better to get some production out of the money you're spending on him already & try to add some complementary pieces around him if that's the only other option... i'd love to be able to trade Jamal, Curry, Q Rich, Jefferies & Turd if i could also for shorter term deals... if we can unload at least 2 of the big longterm contracts on our books that extends past 2010 (Zach, Curry, Jamal, Jefferies), then we'll be in much better shape going into the big free agency sweepstakes that year.

If the production you're getting out of him is negative, it's better to buy him out. What would you rather do if you owned a bank: Pay a bank robber $10 to agree to never show up at your bank again (like a buyout) or have him rob $100 from you every day?
And just to make the analogy concrete again, how would the team be doing if at the start of this season Zach had been bought out and Lee and Curry were in the starting lineup? I'd say the record would be no worse (maybe better but that's another issue) and Lee and Eddy would each be doing better and have more value.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 03-06-2008 8:29 PM]

a better analogy is you spend $60 million in a company that isn't netting you a profit, do you just give the shares away for nothing or do you hold onto them & hope that you can somehow net some positive returns on your huge investment sometime down the road... giving away money is never a good idea, in business or in the NBA... buying out players should always be the last resort move to consider.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TrueBlue
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3/6/2008  8:34 PM
Posted by TMS:
i'm having a hard time understanding why you think it make sense for ORL to trade for Zach & not HOU?

Because Houston has a salary structure where they're on the backside of McGrady's deal where they could easily abandon this run 2yrs from now and either choose to rebuild around Yao or trade him the following season, instead of wallowing and prolonging the perpetual 1rst round and exit routine. With T-mac's expiring on the books 2yrs from now,(he won't be over the hill yet) it will be their biggest bargaining chip to trade to rebuild around Yao.

Whereas Orlando just started spending money, they are over the cap and will be for a while, they're on the front side of major contracts and have to make trades in order to improve around a budding star in Howard. Basically Houston's about past the point of All-In whereas Orlando just got started. All they have are low first and 2nd round picks and the MLE to build around Howard.
Dwight Howard plays in the post as does Yao... ORL doesn't have any big contracts to throw back in a deal other than their 3 main guys & Hedo who's having a terrific season of his own.

My thoughts as to why Orlando would reject the deal for Zach has nothing to do if Zach would work around Howard because I believe he could. Zach's game extends away from the basket(shoots tons of jumpers and actually has a real good one), it would be a great help to Dwight to take away the double team in the paint. Orlando openly came out and said during the deadline they needed a 4, whereas Houston's GM stated he likes their team and wasn't anticipating any moves. The obvious concerns of Orlando IMO would be Zach's character & salary.
is Battie, Arroyo & Garrity for Zach what you were proposing? why does ORL give up all that cap space tho? at least w/HOU it's only 1 year of cap they're taking on... in ORL's case it would be 3 more years of big money salary coming back their way.

Making trades takes creativity sometimes as we've discussed before. Orlando is going to need some bodies next yr with their expirings coming off the books, especially if they don't exercise all their team options. I don't know how they're going to do it. Dealing with us may have required getting a third team involved if necessary but speaking on the two teams, let's say we had to involve more players at the deadline

say

Zach, Malik, Nate

4

Arroyo, Dooling, Garrity, Augustine, Battie, and pick
face it, there are no teams out there giving up expirings & picks for Zach, now or before the last Allstar break... i don't care what Isiah said to the press, he says things like "all our guys are untouchable" & other moronic things all the time... why would u lend any credence to him saying he wouldn't give up Zach for expirings to mean there were opportunities out there for him to do so?


Because I think he has a total different perception than anyone else has of his players. He would look at such trade as him losing and a slam as to why he even traded for Zach in the first place. Whereas many of us fans would be happy if Farts were offered for Zach.

LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TMS
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3/6/2008  8:47 PM
ORL's got plenty of shooters on that team between Rashard & Hedo... they don't need another big man to be taking shots from the perimeter... & they will no longer have the expiring contracts of Arroyo & Garrity after this season, so that discussion is now moot... unless we can somehow bamboozle them into giving us Hedo & Battie for Zach in a trade, i don't see any deal w/ORL having any chance of going down.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TrueBlue
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3/6/2008  9:06 PM
Posted by TMS:

ORL's got plenty of shooters on that team between Rashard & Hedo... they don't need another big man to be taking shots from the perimeter... & they will no longer have the expiring contracts of Arroyo & Garrity after this season, so that discussion is now moot... unless we can somehow bamboozle them into giving us Hedo & Battie for Zach in a trade, i don't see any deal w/ORL having any chance of going down.

I agree, that's why I said this past deadline was the moment and now it's passed.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TMS
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3/6/2008  9:49 PM
there never was a moment to trade Zach for expirings & picks to begin with.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TrueBlue
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3/6/2008  10:02 PM
Posted by TMS:

there never was a moment to trade Zach for expirings & picks to begin with.

If that's how you feel fine just like I'm sure no one saw Kurt Thomas being traded for two #1 draft picks to two different teams in less than a yr. Anything can happen if we do the leg work with someone competent running the show.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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