I hate how the article says Lee and Robinson are in line to earn more than the league average. Thats bull****. These guys are average players or barely above. They haven't earned it yet. Shit, give them a 5yr 20mil deal with opt outs after the 3rd year. Give them security for now, and let them prove they're worth more later.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BlueSeats:

We shouldn't over extend ourselves for these guys, but at the same time why play cat and mouse? Offer them reasonable extensions and see where their hearts lie. If they want to go fishing out in the deep blue sea they are welcome to, but in doing so they risk the chance of career ending injuries. Sensible contracts make sense for both parties.

But what's reasonable when they know what they're entitled to from us extension wise? I mean have either of these guys been able to prove their real value? If not how do you go about offering them an extension? If I'm Nate or Lee I surely don't want to be paid off of current production and role on team.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-04-2008 11:41 PM]

I don't know their true value, but I wouldn't pay them bigtime money. More than the MLE, but not much more. When Isiah re-signed Kurt he was like 31 and IMO the second best player on the team after Marbury, and he got like 4 years at around 7M/yr. I think Kurt was better than either Lee or Nate.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by BlueSeats:

We shouldn't over extend ourselves for these guys, but at the same time why play cat and mouse? Offer them reasonable extensions and see where their hearts lie. If they want to go fishing out in the deep blue sea they are welcome to, but in doing so they risk the chance of career ending injuries. Sensible contracts make sense for both parties.

I agree blue seats, this would be the best approach. But imagine, if we had competent management and a competent owner, this would not be an issue, I mean what player in their right mind would not want to play in NY under the correct circumstances? We have taken our greatest asset(which is playing in NY, the mecca of basketball and Madison square Garden) and have almost turned it into a liability with this circus... Dolan is to blame as well as Isiah, but dolan mostly. He can end this, he is not protecting his biggest asset. Instead of these silly ass cat and mouse games with the media, he should be taking care of his franchise and removing Isiah out of that office and put his ass on the street!! Lee and nate are good guys, nate can be a little cooky on the court and off, but he is a good kid, the same with lee, they want to be here it seems, but can you blame them for wanting to leave, after all they have been through. This is why I said, keeping Isiah another day is just stupid.. Fire him tomorrow, hell let herb coach, or do like the movie Eddie(or eddy) however it is spelled and let a fan come in and coach. Just get Isiah out of here, get in a comptent GM and lets start rehabilitating this franchise... It won't matter how much money we have under the cap in 2010, who the hell wants to come to this steaming pile of shyt the way it is run at this point?

Yeah, someone funny, either Nalod, Jones or Codeunknown, said this place is so toxic we should qualify for Superfund clean-up funds. It's true, this place is a toxic cesspool right now. Even weeds can't grow here. No premium players want to come, and little can thrive. Even the prospect of a high draft pick does nothing for me because until management is changed I expect our pick to die a slow poisonous death.

Don't get me wrong, we need that pick bad, and it's the only saving grace of the season, but this place has got to be cleaned up fast. I refuse to believe isiah will be here next year. His return would be absolute suicide on Dolan's part. It's just unthinkable.

Posted by kam77:

Please let them test restricted free agency, We'll match reasonable offers.

This is what it comes down to. I would hate to lose them right now for nothing.

Isiah may be a dick and let them go just to keep expiring contracts while getting 2 roster spots.........that would be horrible.

Posted by tkf:

I think dolan getting rid of Isiah now is the best thing he can do for this organization. get a GM in here now that can evaluate and make good decisons on the guys we have here right now.. this season is done, the players don't listen to this clown. time to clean house now. I just don't see the benefit of waiting....

One other factor. If we do get someone new (emphasis on IF), Little Jimmy needs to stay out of his way and let him do his thing to clean things up.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by K22:

Posted by tkf:

I think dolan getting rid of Isiah now is the best thing he can do for this organization. get a GM in here now that can evaluate and make good decisons on the guys we have here right now.. this season is done, the players don't listen to this clown. time to clean house now. I just don't see the benefit of waiting....

One other factor. If we do get someone new (emphasis on IF), Little Jimmy needs to stay out of his way and let him do his thing to clean things up.

yea, I agree, but jimmy doesn't seem like he gets in the way. He really doesn't know much about basketball. I really wish he had gotten in Isiah's way during some of his moves..... But if you are referring to demanding his GM keep the seats filled at all cost, then yea, he needs to stay out of the way...

Whether Dolan does this publicly or not- he needs to

1. Admit he made a mistake with Isiah

2. Admit that he needs to rebuild the right way, and that might involve 'sucking' and watching rookies make mistakes

3. To win a championship, you need a franchise talent

4. Acknowledge the best way to get a franchise talent is through the draft

If he does the above- I'm not sure whether I care who he goes with as a GM.

Posted by Cosmic:

To this discussion I offer a post I already laid down in the Lee thread......



***********


If the Knicks are in their right minds they will offer him the Qualifying in 09/10 of 2.68M.

2.68???

I'd rather see him go.

Posted by franco12:

I disagree about letting them go to RFA- we'd have to match 2 offers- and teams can do stupid things, as we have seen with Isiah.

It wouldn't be that big of deal and very rarely do teams make huge offers to RFA because it ties their cap up and eliminates them for being in the running for other FA's. Teams have showed the willingness to offer UFA quite a bit of money but not RFA especially if you make it known you intend to match any reasonable offer. That's the beauty of RFA. We let the market determine their contract, we can match, we have their birds right, we can offer the higher percent of raises each yr,.

Its better to get them locked in- if for five years- great- if shorter, fine too.

If we know for certain they surely want to get a deal done now, not wanting to go the RFA route and it's clear money won't be an obstacle, sure. To openly offer them an extension unsolicited, while at the same time offering them a low ball figure would only complicate future negotiations.

But the key thing is not to give them money that makes them untradeable.

I agree

If you let them get to RFA- they might get big offers that might make them untradeable - think Jarred Jeffries- and if we match, we're screwed and if we don't, we lose them for nothing.

Now- obviously if we offer reasonable money and they both opt to go the RFA route, I think you look to trade them before the get to sign a RFA offer- because at least you will get something.

We're a different standard and a bad one at that. Being over the cap isn't a problem with our franchise nor is being over the Lux Tax. Wash was over the cap and concerned with Lux Tax dollars, plus Jeff was given a kicker by us. The kicker is really what sealed his fate here. You honestly think if we're a couple mil apart on the total contract value our pompus arrogant mgmt(I SAY UGH(if he's still here)&Dolan) group lets Lee and Nate walk? And seriously you think Washington or Seattle are crying over the fact they lost Jeff and James respectively. There's a reason those two were allowed to walk away.


Let's say Nate and Lee are given lucrative deals... we can still work a S&T, which they would be very interested in because we can offer the most money. Get back what's needed for compensation potentially giving us even more flexibility.

The problem with Isiah's 8 year building plan where he's tried to get every overpaid, underacheiving ill fitting player- is we are now set so far back from being competitive, that the money & numbers don't make sense for us to pay up for Lee & Nate.

Yeah if we're taking into account future fiscal responsibility but if we aren't, then no big deal.




[Edited by - TrueBlue on 03-05-2008 10:40 AM]

Posted by franco12:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by K22:

Posted by tkf:

I think dolan getting rid of Isiah now is the best thing he can do for this organization. get a GM in here now that can evaluate and make good decisons on the guys we have here right now.. this season is done, the players don't listen to this clown. time to clean house now. I just don't see the benefit of waiting....

One other factor. If we do get someone new (emphasis on IF), Little Jimmy needs to stay out of his way and let him do his thing to clean things up.

yea, I agree, but jimmy doesn't seem like he gets in the way. He really doesn't know much about basketball. I really wish he had gotten in Isiah's way during some of his moves..... But if you are referring to demanding his GM keep the seats filled at all cost, then yea, he needs to stay out of the way...

Whether Dolan does this publicly or not- he needs to

1. Admit he made a mistake with Isiah

2. Admit that he needs to rebuild the right way, and that might involve 'sucking' and watching rookies make mistakes

3. To win a championship, you need a franchise talent

4. Acknowledge the best way to get a franchise talent is through the draft

If he does the above- I'm not sure whether I care who he goes with as a GM.

I agree, but not only does he need to do #1 but you can add a 1-a which would be to first fire Isiah.. and I mean do so, immediately!!

The question was "What should the Knicks do with Lee and Nate this offseason". Here are some ideas:

1. Summercamp. Get's 'em out of Isiah's hair, and out in the country where they can breathe the fresh air
2. Send them to Grandpa and Grandma's. Again, they need to get out of the city and exposure to old people will be good for their characters.
3. Outward bound.

What we don't want is for them to be unoccupied and roaming the streets getting into trouble all summer.


[Edited by - basketballjones on 03-05-2008 18:43]