Posted by Panos:

Posted by colorfl1:

2) Zeke will package Starbury and Malik's expiring contracts to acquire a potential all-star point guard who plays solid defense and has a high percentage outside stroke.

Can you explain exactly what point guard with those qualities will be available for expiring contracts?
Get a grip. This ain't happening. Teams don't just give away quality players for expirings.

PAU GAOSL- MAINLY DEALT FOR A 9 m EXPIRING OF KWAME.

Posted by GKFv2:

That's not hope, that's hell.

ROFL....... you are wrong man...LOL

I hope Isiah Thomas dies.

I mean fired.

No, I meant dies.

I unfortunately have to agree with the premise that Isiah will stay. I don't think that there will be a Marbury trade at all. I am pretty sure that the salary cap is definitely on the radar for the 2010 class of Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade and Le Bron.

Unless you get an Elton Brand (highly unlikely) in a sign and trade with them taking back Curry.

That basically means - trying to trade Jerome James and Malik Rose - and thats it. Q Rich won't be moved as no one wants him. IT will hang onto Jeffries as he is in the habit of seeing upside on 'his' players. Jones will probably be gone - opening up atleast one roster spot.

The front court of Curry and Randolph can be effective. The problem is that essentially when you play the Knicks - you can focus on basically one player at any time on defense and win.

So if Crawford is hot- double him up by the 3 point line and sure enough he will either have a turnover or a bad pass. He will never be a PG but by now his all round ability will make him a better 3 than he was when he got here. You have no SF that is an offensive threat, when you play Randolph and Curry together - they pack the paint and dare you to shoot it from the outside - which means most of the times -we miss. In the games - where the Knicks were making the outside shot (those precious 3 games aginst Cleveland, Detroit , Washington) they win comfortably. The problem is consistency. When the team as whole shoots below 40 percent (several times)- last nite, against Philly, etc etc - the Knicks are doomed.

Either the Knicks learn to start shooting better (Lee, Robinson, Chandler, Balkman, Jeffries,Q Rich) or you end up losing -since the backcourt with just crawford is not eough. He is not an Iverson -who hads the stamina to play 40+ minutes every night and still be a quality player.

I basically see the Knicks drafting Gordon or Bayless, moving Jeffries/James/Rose/Collins maybe even Balkman for an impact player (perhaps Atretst). Maybe do a trade for Darko -as a shot bloacker since Memphis is salary dumping move- James+ Cash?

Then you would have Marbury/Crawford/Artest/Curry/Randolph as your starting 5 with the rotation of Darko, Lee, Balkman, Robinson, Q Rich, Chandler, Gordon and Mo Randolph on the bench. A combo of Artest and Q will give you decent defense at one position at all times.

I don't see an implosion or Isiah being fired. I think the plan is to let Isiah run out his contract - and if nothing has happened by 2010/2011- not extend him.

The worst that will happen is -that the next GM comes into a situation where there is a bunch of expiring contracts (Randolph/Curry/Crawford/Jeffries- Q Rich would already be gone) and a high pick or two onthe bench in addition to Lee/Balkman/Chandler, Mo Randolph. I would think that this is the best scenario for the Knicks- let the contracts expire, let isiah play out his contract, and don't make to many moves with the exception of Artest.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by Nalod:

Knicks will need to do a sign and trade for Crazy Ron.

MLE is not gonna fly with him.

Color, I appreciate your rosy outlook and what you think "could" happen.

While I think Dolan is a first class moron I have to believe he is seeking some kind of plan and perhaps the smartest thing he can do is not do anything as this team is already in terrible termoil. Firing Isiah midseason without a solid plan is really not a good idea no matter how good it feels short term.
If Colangelo were to be our saviour then it happens after the season.

In fact, if any of this is to happen its likely already in progress and the direction of the team the next 5 years is already being mapped out.

How do I know any of this? I don't have a freaking clue, but no one else does either. The lack of information, the lack of logic, the lack of honesty from this organization is incredible.

But a huge shift in policy would be the biggest event to effect the franchise. No dumb trades, no firings, no "reactionary" moves might be what we are looking for to signal a change.

The "starphuch" we all want is not Colangelo or Walsh, but the policy that would empower.

Nalod, the part I bolded is something I don't know if I agree with. I read that several times in different threads but I want to ask you this.... Why would firing Isiah mid season with no plan be so bad? At least you got rid of the virus... I mean really, can things be any worse? Our team sucks, the players quit, they are fighting on the bench, yelling at each other, there is no leadership, the coaches lost control, I mean how much worse could it get. I think isiah should have been fired before the trade deadline, so another GM would have at least had a chance to dump some dead weight.. Now lets say you bring in colangelo during the summer, he will still be stuck with the same mess, unless he finds a lot of suckers during the summer.. I mean who knows.. The summer heat can make GM's do strange things....

how about the reverse? What does firing Isiah at this point in time GAIN you? Isiah is already handcuffed in trades. None of the players are going anywhere, so it's not like you have to hope a Wade-like player is going to bolt at the end of the season.

If you do fire Isiah, whomever is out there gains leverage in the next deal cause they KNOW Dolan has to hire someone before the draft.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by iyamwutiam:

I unfortunately have to agree with the premise that Isiah will stay. I don't think that there will be a Marbury trade at all. I am pretty sure that the salary cap is definitely on the radar for the 2010 class of Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade and Le Bron.

First and foremost nothing could have transpired to make you feel any different about I SAY UGH'S job security.

Secondly you seriously need to take a crash course on our salary cap situation. As things stand right now we have no shot at Bosh, Wade, or Lebron unless Curry and Jeffries drop their Player Options and we make zero moves from now til then.

Do you understand how the basics of the cap and how the NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement works?

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

I have been this a few times- look it up. 2010/2011 - we are looking good and have the expiring contracts of Jeffries and Crawford. Calm down already

Posted by iyamwutiam:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by iyamwutiam:

I unfortunately have to agree with the premise that Isiah will stay. I don't think that there will be a Marbury trade at all. I am pretty sure that the salary cap is definitely on the radar for the 2010 class of Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade and Le Bron.

First and foremost nothing could have transpired to make you feel any different about I SAY UGH'S job security.

Secondly you seriously need to take a crash course on our salary cap situation. As things stand right now we have no shot at Bosh, Wade, or Lebron unless Curry and Jeffries drop their Player Options and we make zero moves from now til then.

Do you understand how the basics of the cap and how the NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement works?

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

I have been this a few times- look it up. 2010/2011 - we are looking good and have the expiring contracts of Jeffries and Crawford. Calm down already

You need to look at it again and understand we don't have a shot unless we unload what we have now for expirings of 2009/2010.

We have $28mil on the books in 2010/2011 and if Curry and Jeffries exercise their options, which they will if they're still here, add $18mil to $28mil, that's $46mil. The cap will be aproximately $60mil in 2010/2011. So with 4 players under contract no other moves made we'll have about $15mil to play with. Lerbon, Wade, and Bosh all will opt out of a contract slated at $17mil that off-season. So as you see we're already shorting them $2mil right off the top. We're going to give Lee a new contract right? What about Nate?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-25-2008 11:35 AM]

Posted by iyamwutiam:

Thanks - I understand now - I just assumed the player option salaries were counted-- very good point. Still - player option or not - they will still represent expring contracts for a sign and trade. There is no way - any of those players (Wade/Le Bron etc) come to the Knicks in anything other than a sign and trade.

So I still think its under control. As for Robinson and Lee- what I have noticed is that the free spending days of the NBA are over. With the exception of Rashard Lewis - not many free agents got what they thought they were gonna get. I would Lee and Robinson in that category.

The Knicks would give them a qualifying offer- for Nate I don't expect it to be more than Fred Jones money (2-3M), and for Lee -unless he really deveolps that shot - not more tha Anderson Varejo money (5M).

Which means we'll probably have to fill out our roster with more tradable assets, give Lee and Nate extensions and maybe sign a decent player(s) with the MLE the next 2 seasons. In other words increase our cap figure. We're not getting Lebron, Wade, or Bosh for Curry, Randolph, Crawford, and Jeffries who'll be on the books that's for sure. Purge contracts now even if we have to sacrifice Lee(whoever else is considered having trade value) for a shot at Lebron sure, if we don't, forget about it. We may even have to trade our #1 draft pick(s) again to have a chance. I doubt Lebron wants to come here anyway or any other young franchise caliber player for the matter.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-25-2008 11:53 AM]

iyamwutiam, you're all over the place. First you think we're going under the cap even though we ust signed Randolf and will have 46M tied up in just 4 players. Then you say we'll have to sign and trade for those guys anyway. Then that lebron is going to NJ.

Your scenarios have no meat to stand on, they're just baseless optimism that somehow or another Cap'n Zeke will steer us through Layden's mess until we end up with a top 3 player in the league, by hook or by crook.

It doesn't work that way. You don't just keep trying one ****amamy scheme after another, like wanting to be the Suns, then a down low power team, then play small ball, then think you can be the next Celtics, etc, with each season being a new scenario from the man without a plan.

Whatever a team requires to get the likes of Wade, Bron, etc, we certainly don't have, unless it's expiring contracts and future lottery picks. Which is back where we started when Isiah took over.

So your best case scenario is really that we wait until 2010 to start rebuilding, and then let Isiah have another 7 years do it all wrong all over again.

Posted by martin:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by Nalod:

Knicks will need to do a sign and trade for Crazy Ron.

MLE is not gonna fly with him.

Color, I appreciate your rosy outlook and what you think "could" happen.

While I think Dolan is a first class moron I have to believe he is seeking some kind of plan and perhaps the smartest thing he can do is not do anything as this team is already in terrible termoil. Firing Isiah midseason without a solid plan is really not a good idea no matter how good it feels short term.
If Colangelo were to be our saviour then it happens after the season.

In fact, if any of this is to happen its likely already in progress and the direction of the team the next 5 years is already being mapped out.

How do I know any of this? I don't have a freaking clue, but no one else does either. The lack of information, the lack of logic, the lack of honesty from this organization is incredible.

But a huge shift in policy would be the biggest event to effect the franchise. No dumb trades, no firings, no "reactionary" moves might be what we are looking for to signal a change.

The "starphuch" we all want is not Colangelo or Walsh, but the policy that would empower.

Nalod, the part I bolded is something I don't know if I agree with. I read that several times in different threads but I want to ask you this.... Why would firing Isiah mid season with no plan be so bad? At least you got rid of the virus... I mean really, can things be any worse? Our team sucks, the players quit, they are fighting on the bench, yelling at each other, there is no leadership, the coaches lost control, I mean how much worse could it get. I think isiah should have been fired before the trade deadline, so another GM would have at least had a chance to dump some dead weight.. Now lets say you bring in colangelo during the summer, he will still be stuck with the same mess, unless he finds a lot of suckers during the summer.. I mean who knows.. The summer heat can make GM's do strange things....

how about the reverse? What does firing Isiah at this point in time GAIN you? Isiah is already handcuffed in trades. None of the players are going anywhere, so it's not like you have to hope a Wade-like player is going to bolt at the end of the season.

If you do fire Isiah, whomever is out there gains leverage in the next deal cause they KNOW Dolan has to hire someone before the draft.

whomever is out there now already has leverage because they know we can't continue with this mess we have right now. My point of firing isiah earlier this year, would give a new GM a chance to move some dead weight, play guys like morris and chandler to see what they have. right now, we don't know if either guy can play, do you think that is going to make the next GM's decision any easier... All of this wasted time, is just pushing our efforts to get better, further back..

bringing in Isiah to "do deals" really killed us his first year.

If anything Isiah should leave the bench.

Im thinking Dolan also likes to work on spite so he must have some agenda to keep isiah "dead man walking" so he can get his contract voided. Isiah can't quite, but Dolan can test him.

There is somthing very strange with this team that defies logic. I think Dolan promised Isiah this year no matter what.

Dolan is a spiteful petty fool, but a man of his word. He does not go back on it no matter what.

Pathetic any way you slice it.