Posted by playa2:

DJ I watch Calderon as much if not more than you being upstate.

DJ sends you a proverbial bitch-slap over the internet as a valentines gesture for even THINKING that you watch more Toronto action than he does.

Remember, dude got that Raptor logo tattooed on his scrawny ass last summer. Tries to show everyone who wants to look.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

the ability to execute the offense night in and night out is beyond the numbers.

billups isn't a "creative passer" either. He just happens to play 40 minutes a night with 4 guys who really know the game.

Billups is considered a big shot maker, great in execution and a tough as nails defender... No he is not a creative passer, but he is a facilitator. Being MVP of the finals didn't hurt either....

[Edited by - tkf on 14-02-2008 11:05 AM]

so is Horry. funny Billups hasn't hit a big shot since 2004...

So now you want to compare horry to billups.... LOL.. have at it, but you know the difference. Now you are deflecting....... Billups led team has still been the best team in the east since 2004 tho..

point is Billups by your definition is not an all-star either. He is there because he plays with a top team however Rip and Rasheed are the reason they have been the best team in the East since 04. the 2 guys Chauncey's assists numbers come from are near flawless in their execution of sets. Chauncey is an all-star as a function of the teams success. If he were on Philly he'd be home all-star weekind blogging with Gil. In contrast Miller with the same numbers is throwing lobs to D12 this weekend.

I never said billups was an allstar, or allstar worthy, but the guy has been playing at a high level for years, and not just numbers, because if he wanted, he could score more. what I look at with billups is how he dominates on both sides of the ball, calderone doesn't do that, billups also physically and mentally imposes his will on most PG's in the league, he is a game changer.... say what you want, but he has been one of the best at his position for years and was the finals MVP. I think that may get him some allstar nods.. don't you?

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TrueBlue:

I think I've made more Calderon Threads on this site than anyone.

I remember the one thread I started and some fans tried to bash him for his defense, kind of chalking him up as an average point guard.

And Gilbert Arenas needs STFU on Calderon but anything else that comes out his mouth is usually entertaining.

Arenas is a loud mouth, but in essence he was correct about calderon...

Uhhhhhhhhhh No he's wrong the dude dropped 22pts 12ast last night. He should say Calderon's style of play may not befit the glitz and glamor of the game but his productivity this yr has been All-Star worthy

He's the only player in the league shooting above 50% fg,above 40% 3pt(fg), above 90% ft, 6 to 1 Ast/TO ratio

And averages 13pts, 9ast, 55%fg, 47%3pt(fg), 92%ft, 3reb, 1stl in just 31min of play.

Are you kidding me what else would the guy have to do to be considered an All-Star?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-14-2008 09:32 AM]

allstars go beyond numbers. Calderon like Deron williams are not creative passers, they benefit from having some good shooters on their teams. Now with calderon, I think arenas was saying that teams don't come into games preparing to stop calderon, teams don't prepare for him, guys who are allstars usually attract that kind of attention. Pg's like kidd, nash, paul, Baron davis, you have to game plan for these guys... Calderon is a solid player no doubt, but not an allstar...

If you're going to use that as a definition of what an All-Star is. An All-Star also makes his teammates better, produces great numbers on a good team, excels at certain areas of the game better than his colleagues. Calderon also hits big shots. Let's face it if Toronto got more air time Calderon would receive more recognition. And Calderon is no different than past players who made it Kirilenko, Brad Miller, Big-Z, Szczerbiak, Walker, Shareef.

And there's a difference between saying Calderon should be an All-Star over who made it vs saying he isn't All-Star worthy as Arenas is implying.

Calderon was also playing this way last yr so it isn't solely based on having shooters around him.[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-14-2008 10:01 AM]

TJ ford was starting. calderon was comming off the bench, and he was just as effective then off the bench. now he is getting more minutes.. He is a good player, but not an allstar..

His coming off the bench meant nothing. T.J. provides a dynamic of style of play over Calderon but if you look at Toronto since he took over starting duties they've faired very well. He's helped improve their W-L record by 3gms. He's definitely an All-Star player debateable as to how deserving he is vs those who made it.

did I say it meant anything. I just mentioned it because you brought up last year, so it is relevant. Last year, he was there and he played pretty well, but he shared time with TJ ford, this year he is getting the minutes with the absence of ford and his numbers with minutes have increased, I don't think he is any better or much better than he was last year...

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

the ability to execute the offense night in and night out is beyond the numbers.

billups isn't a "creative passer" either. He just happens to play 40 minutes a night with 4 guys who really know the game.

Billups is considered a big shot maker, great in execution and a tough as nails defender... No he is not a creative passer, but he is a facilitator. Being MVP of the finals didn't hurt either....

[Edited by - tkf on 14-02-2008 11:05 AM]

so is Horry. funny Billups hasn't hit a big shot since 2004...

So now you want to compare horry to billups.... LOL.. have at it, but you know the difference. Now you are deflecting....... Billups led team has still been the best team in the east since 2004 tho..

point is Billups by your definition is not an all-star either. He is there because he plays with a top team however Rip and Rasheed are the reason they have been the best team in the East since 04. the 2 guys Chauncey's assists numbers come from are near flawless in their execution of sets. Chauncey is an all-star as a function of the teams success. If he were on Philly he'd be home all-star weekind blogging with Gil. In contrast Miller with the same numbers is throwing lobs to D12 this weekend.

I never said billups was an allstar, or allstar worthy, but the guy has been playing at a high level for years, and not just numbers, because if he wanted, he could score more. what I look at with billups is how he dominates on both sides of the ball, calderone doesn't do that, billups also physically and mentally imposes his will on most PG's in the league, he is a game changer.... say what you want, but he has been one of the best at his position for years and was the finals MVP. I think that may get him some allstar nods.. don't you?

What I like about Chauncey is his ability to post up other points. It adds a dimension to how you have to defend against Detroit especially if they put him and Wallace on the same side. Also I'll add I have no problem with him being on the all-star team because he has solid pg numbers on a top 5 team in the league. However his overall effect on the game is replaceable with a Calderon or an Andre Miller and the center of Arenas' argument against Jose was all-stars are irreplaceable.

He should be there over Joe Johnson. Joe has been terrible from the field the last couple of months and his team is on a serious slide.

[Edited by - McK1 on 14-02-2008 12:13 PM]

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

the snub of Calderon proved why most coaches in the East and their respective teams are of a majority HORRIBLE

OK, so who sits while calderon plays? who would you take off? Billups? kidd? Wade? Rip? lebron, Joe Johnson... come on, to say he was snubbed is just being irrational!! All of those guys are better and frankly are what people want to see...

the whole of NBA TV-watching Canada disagrees with you. So it's like 20 or so.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

the ability to execute the offense night in and night out is beyond the numbers.

billups isn't a "creative passer" either. He just happens to play 40 minutes a night with 4 guys who really know the game.

Billups is considered a big shot maker, great in execution and a tough as nails defender... No he is not a creative passer, but he is a facilitator. Being MVP of the finals didn't hurt either....

[Edited by - tkf on 14-02-2008 11:05 AM]

so is Horry. funny Billups hasn't hit a big shot since 2004...

So now you want to compare horry to billups.... LOL.. have at it, but you know the difference. Now you are deflecting....... Billups led team has still been the best team in the east since 2004 tho..

point is Billups by your definition is not an all-star either. He is there because he plays with a top team however Rip and Rasheed are the reason they have been the best team in the East since 04. the 2 guys Chauncey's assists numbers come from are near flawless in their execution of sets. Chauncey is an all-star as a function of the teams success. If he were on Philly he'd be home all-star weekind blogging with Gil. In contrast Miller with the same numbers is throwing lobs to D12 this weekend.

I never said billups was an allstar, or allstar worthy, but the guy has been playing at a high level for years, and not just numbers, because if he wanted, he could score more. what I look at with billups is how he dominates on both sides of the ball, calderone doesn't do that, billups also physically and mentally imposes his will on most PG's in the league, he is a game changer.... say what you want, but he has been one of the best at his position for years and was the finals MVP. I think that may get him some allstar nods.. don't you?

What I like about Chauncey is his ability to post up other points. It adds a dimension to how you have to defend against Detroit especially if they put him and Wallace on the same side. Also I'll add I have no problem with him being on the all-star team because he has solid pg numbers on a top 5 team in the league. However his overall effect on the game is replaceable with a Calderon or an Andre Miller and the center of Arenas' argument against Jose was all-stars are irreplaceable.

arenas is a jackass, but is billups replaceable with a calderon or miller? Maybe miller, maybe, but the difference is on the defensive end. Miller can defend, calderon doesn't. big difference, but again, it all comes down to winning time, play making and big shot ability. billups has, while being one of the best players on one of the best teams in the east, displayed that ability... i don't think he is replaceable. Not for what he does in detroit... Not for what he has done over the past 5 years..

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

the snub of Calderon proved why most coaches in the East and their respective teams are of a majority HORRIBLE

so explain to me how is that so? so if he was picked, would there be some other explination on why the majority of east teams are horrible? I mean It is all because of calderon being snubbed? wow. so if the go back and pick him for the allstar game, then all of a sudden the east will be good? again, no rationality here.... come on man... come on...

he wasn't picked and it shows the narrow-mindedness of most coaches in the East. he should be there over Joe Johnson.

I guess the East will be running iso's and having there own private 3 point shooting contest all freaking game while the West racks up highlights from ball movement and guys filling the wings on the break

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by tkf:

did I say it meant anything. I just mentioned it because you brought up last year, so it is relevant. Last year, he was there and he played pretty well, but he shared time with TJ ford, this year he is getting the minutes with the absence of ford and his numbers with minutes have increased, I don't think he is any better or much better than he was last year...

06-07 Tor 77 11 21.0 3.4-6.6 .521 0.3-1.0 .333 1.5-1.9 .818 0.8 0.1 1.4 1.8 0.3 1.5 1.8 5.0 8.7

07-08 Tor 51 37 32.0 5.0-9.3 .544 1.1-2.4 .472 1.6-1.8 .923 1.1 0.1 1.6 1.6 0.5 2.7 3.2 8.9 12.9


So here we see his numbers increase across the board and usually when a player puts up more shots and handles the ball more results in lowered FG% and higher amount of TO's. This isn't the case with Calderon. Will he maintain these numbers? Who knows, but up to the point of All-Star break he's been playing like an All-Star



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-14-2008 11:24 AM]

I can see with more time, more turnovers, but not a lowered FG%? I don't think FG% changes with more shots, I think the type of shots, but usually a player % will pretty much stay the same if he takes more of the same type of shots. don't you agree? So I don't see your point there...

arenas may have gone overboard, because by his account, he isn't an allstar, His team is playing well without him, and if they get a good, pass first PG in his position, and it doesn't have to be an allstar either, I mean a TJ ford type, I think the wizards would be better off with Ford than arenas.. so what does that say about arenas...

Again, arenas is a moron, but I have to agree with him here on calderon..