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Knicks trying to deal Zeddy?
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newyorknewyork
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2/12/2008  11:33 AM
The knicks are not going to rebuild.
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Bonn1997
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2/12/2008  11:45 AM
Posted by Siar617:

alot of these trades look like memphis trade
dum as hell

If you can't spell the word "dumb" you shouldn't use the word to describe others' ideas!
BasketballJones
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2/12/2008  11:48 AM
Some how I just can't see them trading away the greatest big man tandem in the history of the NBA.
https:// It's not so hard.
TrueBlue
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2/12/2008  11:53 AM
Well we know who's on I SAY UGH refusal list, who he'll reject, if such players are offered up for Curry namely......


ROY
ALDRIDGE
GAY
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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2/12/2008  11:53 AM
The real problem is Dolan. He's the man at the top and if he doesn't lead and make the moves that need to be made then we can't really improve as an organization. Dolan is the one constant thru all this losing. If he's not fed up with Isiah then what hope do we have except the chance that Isiah happens to make a good move?

Isiah's insistence on trying to patch up this team is a real problem. I could understand if the team was somewhat successful and all we needed was a player to push us over the edge, but it's so clear that we need to move some players and reshape the team.

This is part of the problem of keeping a guy around who is worthy of being fired. If you move him then you can start to make moves to setup the team for the future. Even if you don't have the next GM in place you can at least make things easier for him. With Isiah here, he seems to be trying to save face and that's not good for the team. Unless he makes a move for this team's future he's only thinking of himself. He could be just talking brave and in reality knows that he has to give up on this season, but it's hard to know with this guy.
Siar617
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2/12/2008  12:25 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Siar617:

alot of these trades look like memphis trade
dum as hell

If you can't spell the word "dumb" you shouldn't use the word to describe others' ideas!

why i think you were dum to respond to mr
but you could not have known your opinion means nothing to me
jesus617 walks
JohnWallace44
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2/12/2008  1:06 PM
I would love to trade these guys and get nothing back.

Second best would be trading Curry and getting a defensive, rebounding center to play next to Zach. Why would we try to get pieces that fit together though?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Panos
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2/12/2008  1:41 PM
Posted by nixluva:

The real problem is Dolan. He's the man at the top and if he doesn't lead and make the moves that need to be made then we can't really improve as an organization. Dolan is the one constant thru all this losing. If he's not fed up with Isiah then what hope do we have except the chance that Isiah happens to make a good move?

Isiah's insistence on trying to patch up this team is a real problem. I could understand if the team was somewhat successful and all we needed was a player to push us over the edge, but it's so clear that we need to move some players and reshape the team.

This is part of the problem of keeping a guy around who is worthy of being fired. If you move him then you can start to make moves to setup the team for the future. Even if you don't have the next GM in place you can at least make things easier for him. With Isiah here, he seems to be trying to save face and that's not good for the team. Unless he makes a move for this team's future he's only thinking of himself. He could be just talking brave and in reality knows that he has to give up on this season, but it's hard to know with this guy.


WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH NIXLUVA?!
Travla
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2/12/2008  2:36 PM
Trade Curry for whatever you can get. He's never going to develop into a defensive presence or rebounder. I believe we should keep Zach unless there's a deal too good to pass up.

Starting lineup:

Craw (off)
QRich (def, some off)
Zach (score/rebs)
Jeffries (def)
Lee (energy, off/def rebs)

Chandler (not gonna get better on the bench)
Balk (energy, def, Rebs)
Jones (def)
Collins (def)
Nate (energy, off)
Morris (not gonna get better on the bench)

Steph....trade, keep....whatever!!
J James ???
Rose...trade or keep, I don't care.

Yeah, I'm crazy....so what. We need to go the Portland route, let the young guys play.

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EnySpree
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2/12/2008  2:44 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by nixluva:

The real problem is Dolan. He's the man at the top and if he doesn't lead and make the moves that need to be made then we can't really improve as an organization. Dolan is the one constant thru all this losing. If he's not fed up with Isiah then what hope do we have except the chance that Isiah happens to make a good move?

Isiah's insistence on trying to patch up this team is a real problem. I could understand if the team was somewhat successful and all we needed was a player to push us over the edge, but it's so clear that we need to move some players and reshape the team.

This is part of the problem of keeping a guy around who is worthy of being fired. If you move him then you can start to make moves to setup the team for the future. Even if you don't have the next GM in place you can at least make things easier for him. With Isiah here, he seems to be trying to save face and that's not good for the team. Unless he makes a move for this team's future he's only thinking of himself. He could be just talking brave and in reality knows that he has to give up on this season, but it's hard to know with this guy.


WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH NIXLUVA?!

We've all had enough. We need a change.

I would take back Dampier. I really don't give a ****. Zach and Dampier could possibly be a better scenerio......especially with David Lee still around.
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Siar617
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2/12/2008  3:16 PM
if defense is what we need why not just play morris
jesus617 walks
NYKBocker
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2/12/2008  3:28 PM
^Makes too much sense for Zeke.
kam77
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2/12/2008  3:35 PM
Posted by Siar617:

you guys aren't trying to get cv ron ron or anyone else with any value
if this is the case we should get wallace and make no other moves until ofseason

villanueva is garbage.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
McK1
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2/12/2008  3:47 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Siar617:

you guys aren't trying to get cv ron ron or anyone else with any value
if this is the case we should get wallace and make no other moves until ofseason

villanueva is garbage.


best way to put it
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Cosmic
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2/12/2008  3:50 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Siar617:

you guys aren't trying to get cv ron ron or anyone else with any value
if this is the case we should get wallace and make no other moves until ofseason

villanueva is garbage.

Yes, but, he's on a rookie deal like Frye was.

It's really simple: You trade "23&10" Zach for what we gave up for him.

Then you start Lee at PF - and go back to force feeding Eddy until he's a happy and motivated 20/7 player again - THEN YOU TRADE HIM TOO (again, for what you gave up for him if at all possible, probably not, but maybe close)

Then you get rid of Crawford.

Now all you have facing you is Jerome, QBrick, Jeffries - of whom make what a combined 18M in 2009?

You are now in a very good rebuilding position. A proper rebuilding position. Anyone who calls what Layden and then Isiah did "rebuilding" don't understand the word. We have constantly rebuilt on the fly, also know as bandaid trading, and it has not worked.

Now we see Wallace, JO, Artest floated around. Anyone who thinks these hasbeens are going to change the entire culture of our team into a winning one are still under Isiah's spell.

You fire the clown that started this and you tear apart his mess. Simple stuff.....if you're willing to be logical.


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iyamwutiam
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2/12/2008  4:00 PM
I would not move Curry- as people have pointed out - the guy averaged close to 20/7 - both with the Knicks and the Bulls. So he is definitely a scorer in the post- as can be seen - Camby despite scorers along side him is not making the Nuggets -a Western Conference front runner. Top to bottom the Denver roster is way more loaded than ours and they still have problems because they really have no interior scoring - a la Phoenix/Golden State/Dallas.

However- look at San Antonio - Duncan is not a feared shot blocker and many times is not even a defensive force (by himself) --however - team defense and most importantly the threat of him posting up and laying a ton of fouls on the opposition (like he did with Detroit in the finals) -clearly show - that a post scorer is important in the finals - mainly because of his ability to get the other team in foul trouble and also the ability to be able to get a few easy points when your outside shooting goes cold.

Curry needs to learn only one ting (first-IMO) -that is not to be so aggressive on the offensive side - so that he picks up 2-3 cheap offensive fouls - if he can be more patient in the post (a la Shaq and Duncan) - he will be a very important contributor to any team.
McK1
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2/12/2008  4:04 PM
Posted by VDesai:

McK1- good ideas. I like the Zach to GS one....I think that's the one we can make work. Zach is a perfect fit in the Nelly O where he can shoot all he wants...

can't see IT doing a move like this tho. Wright (unless you are a Tarheel fanatic) nor POB are sellable names at this point and that has been his entire platform in the area of trades...

<rant portion>

but otoh he spends precious 1st rounders on these outta left field 6th-9th man players while leaving marketable skilled future stars on the board.

what an idiiiiiooooottttt!
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TrueBlue
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2/12/2008  4:05 PM
Actually the key is to move Zach and Eddy in separate deals that essentially give us back the same thing.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Cosmic
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2/12/2008  4:06 PM
Posted by iyamwutiam:

I would not move Curry- as people have pointed out - the guy averaged close to 20/7 - both with the Knicks and the Bulls. So he is definitely a scorer in the post- as can be seen - Camby despite scorers along side him is not making the Nuggets -a Western Conference front runner. Top to bottom the Denver roster is way more loaded than ours and they still have problems because they really have no interior scoring - a la Phoenix/Golden State/Dallas.

However- look at San Antonio - Duncan is not a feared shot blocker and many times is not even a defensive force (by himself) --however - team defense and most importantly the threat of him posting up and laying a ton of fouls on the opposition (like he did with Detroit in the finals) -clearly show - that a post scorer is important in the finals - mainly because of his ability to get the other team in foul trouble and also the ability to be able to get a few easy points when your outside shooting goes cold.

Curry needs to learn only one ting (first-IMO) -that is not to be so aggressive on the offensive side - so that he picks up 2-3 cheap offensive fouls - if he can be more patient in the post (a la Shaq and Duncan) - he will be a very important contributor to any team.

Curry's 20/7 is fools gold. You don't just assume you place a defensive PF next to him and all is well - there are still plenty of instances when that unnamed PF will have to leave his own man wide open in order to try to cover for Curry - thus still creating a liability on a play.

You can't operate like that.

Secondly, Curry averaged nearly 4TOs a game when he was force fed. The guards averaged another nearly 4 TOs a game trying to force him the ball but getting their telegraphed passes picked before it ever reached Curry. You're looking at up to 8TOs a game directly attributed to try to force Eddy the ball.

Again, you cannot operate like that.


I will say that if we made no offseason moves (No Zach, just buy out Francis) - that we had a real chance to be a 40 win team and make the playoffs this season.

MAYBE... if you BELIEVE in this team - you do everything you can to return to that (Which would mean reversing the Zach trade in it's entirety).

Yet, even if we do that.... 40-something wins and first round exits would still be our ceiling as a franchise.

Is that acceptable? Yes, it'd be far more fun than what we're going through now - but - after a few times around - we'd then once again be calling for changes as it just wouldn't cut it.

So, why not start now? Tear it all down? Accept that it is a failure beyond repair?

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Masterplan
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2/12/2008  4:14 PM
Posted by iyamwutiam:

I would not move Curry- as people have pointed out - the guy averaged close to 20/7 - both with the Knicks and the Bulls.

i'd imagine most here are past giving a **** about anyone's individual stats. this isn't a fantasy league. there *needs* to be a better reason to keep him.
So he is definitely a scorer in the post- as can be seen - Camby despite scorers along side him is not making the Nuggets -a Western Conference front runner.

that's an unreasonable standard to hold any player to. what one player can make a team a Western Conference frontrunner?
Top to bottom the Denver roster is way more loaded than ours and they still have problems because they really have no interior scoring - a la Phoenix/Golden State/Dallas.

i think you're oversimplifying to say that interior scoring is *the* thing that gvies those teams "problems." there are plenty of other sources.
However- look at San Antonio - Duncan is not a feared shot blocker and many times is not even a defensive force (by himself) --however - team defense and most importantly the threat of him posting up and laying a ton of fouls on the opposition (like he did with Detroit in the finals) -clearly show - that a post scorer is important in the finals - mainly because of his ability to get the other team in foul trouble and also the ability to be able to get a few easy points when your outside shooting goes cold.

duncan's not a high-flying shotblocker like camby or josh smith, but he always puts up decent stats there and is an excellent defensive player all-around. don't know what else to say to that comparison.
Curry needs to learn only one ting (first-IMO) -that is not to be so aggressive on the offensive side - so that he picks up 2-3 cheap offensive fouls - if he can be more patient in the post (a la Shaq and Duncan) - he will be a very important contributor to any team.

curry needs to learn *a lot* of things before being the centerpiece to a championship or even playoff team.

i think eddy can be effective for us. but either he or zach has to go, and whoever's left has to buy into a reduced role. i'd prefer to keep eddy, actually, although he may be easier to move contract-wise.
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