[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Mike and Mike: miami trades shaq for marion and banks
Author Thread
iyamwutiam
Posts: 20294
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 1/15/2008
Member: #1806
USA
2/6/2008  9:50 AM
I'd agree this is a bad trade. Basically it was a move toward 2010- when Nash and Shaq come off the roster - and they rebuild. I don't see them beating any of the elite teams with Shaq. Although a combo of Shaq, Amare and Diaw is a monster front court. They basically made this move to make Diaw a full time starter- he is very versatile, can shoot from the outside, rebound ad also play alittle bit of point.

Anyway - it will be awesome to see the Suns play the Lakers inthe playoffs- now that Kobe has got some help - it will be very interesting to see that series.

AUTOADVERT
mrbean259
Posts: 21484
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/17/2005
Member: #853
2/6/2008  9:51 AM
Maybe this trade can boost Miami's win total up a bit so we can get a better draft pick!
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
2/6/2008  9:51 AM
Posted by VDesai:

I don't think changing you're style and removing one of your catalysts at midseason is good business. If they were adding Shaq simply to change pace and kept Marion around- then we'd be talking a different story. But this is a middle of season sea change that's a major league risk.

I just don't think it's going to change their style that much. Sure in the regular season it will matter because it's the regular season, but in the playoffs recently, even the Suns tempo has slowed down, not to the point of Knicks/Heat in the 90's but it's slowed down. I think Shaq will fit right in with this team come playoff time. I mean it's not like he's going to be playing 35mpg, more like 20.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
2/6/2008  9:52 AM
Posted by VDesai:

I don't think changing you're style and removing one of your catalysts at midseason is good business. If they were adding Shaq simply to change pace and kept Marion around- then we'd be talking a different story. But this is a middle of season sea change that's a major league risk.

There's no question that this is a major league risk for Phoenix. But it's obviously one that they felt they had to make. If they were going to lose Marion anyway, it's a risk that could pay off with such a small championship window. If Shaq is healthy and motivated, and that's a HUGE if, they can win a championship.

My concern for them is who replaces Marion when it comes to all the little things that he does so well.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
VDesai
Posts: 43301
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
2/6/2008  9:59 AM
With Shawn Marion you're talking about a player that grabs 10 rebounds, creates 4 turnovers and is one of the catalysts for the uptempo, volume offense. Who's gonna replace him, Boris Diaw? He hasn't done anything in 2 years. Shaq O'Neal playing 25-30 minutes a night and cannot make the same kind of impacts on games Marion did at this point in his career. When the offense runs through the post it creates less freelance opportunities for Nash. Less opportunities for the Suns to get into their core competency. It is a trade to conform.

Didn't they ulimtately decide not to trade Marion and Co. for Garnett?
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
2/6/2008  9:59 AM
I don't think this is the last move Kerr makes, not by a long shot.

If I'm the Knicks, I trade them Balkman for their 1st rd pick. He's vastly overrated and he would fit in better with an up and down team like the Suns.

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
2/6/2008  10:01 AM
Posted by VDesai:

With Shawn Marion you're talking about a player that grabs 10 rebounds, creates 4 turnovers and is one of the catalysts for the uptempo, volume offense. Who's gonna replace him, Boris Diaw? He hasn't done anything in 2 years. Shaq O'Neal playing 25-30 minutes a night and cannot make the same kind of impacts on games Marion did at this point in his career. When the offense runs through the post it creates less freelance opportunities for Nash. Less opportunities for the Suns to get into their core competency. It is a trade to conform.

Didn't they ulimtately decide not to trade Marion and Co. for Garnett?

I think the T-Wolves were the ones to squash that since Marion could opt out after just 1 year.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
efw
Posts: 20668
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/10/2005
Member: #1002

2/6/2008  10:02 AM
you think they'd still be able to beat Boston?
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
2/6/2008  10:17 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by nyk4ever:

People are quick to say that this trade sucks for Phoenix but if they win a championship this year, it doesn't matter what happens the next 3. I think Shaq is going to go all-out for one last year and he's probably going to be pissed off about being traded.

Could they have gotten more for Marion? I'm sure, but they might not have been able to get the guy like Shaq that they needed and they are playing for the here and now. I think this could end up pretty well for Phoenix, they've always lacked that guy that can man-up to Duncan in the playoffs and get a stop and Shaq still has that in him, something Amare(who is like 13 years younger) can't do.

Time will tell, judging by a pure salary-cap standpoint, this is a bad trade for Phoenix, but I think Shaq is that piece to the puzzle that they've been missing.

If you really follow this line of reasoning- the suns should be the ones blowing it up- because I am sorry, I don't think Shaq has anything left in the tank.

Honestly- if I were the suns, I would rather have Curry or Zach- and this is why Dolan needs a new GM.

The Suns don't need more offense, so getting guys like Curry or Zach would be a horrible idea. Shaq no matter how old can still board and D.

so they are paying $60MM for some defense and rebounding?
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
2/6/2008  10:19 AM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by SlimPack:

I Think Steve Kerr is pulling an Isiah on this one. This trade stinks for Phoenix.

I disagree. Before this trade, I dont believe Phoenix was good enough to win the west. This team has been together for 3-4 years without advancing to the finals. The Lakers owned the Suns this year before the Gasol trade.

I think its a good gamble by the Suns especially when you consider that they had no plans to resign Marion after this season. Despite Shaq being on the decline, he still gives them a low post presence in the playoffs. He can be affective for 15-20 mins per.....

wait- if they weren't going to resign marion, it was probably because they didn't want to exceed the cap number.

This is a phoenix suns team that in the last few drafts, have traded their first rounders away for cash- not merely to get cash, but because they didn't want to sign the first round pick and add to their cap number.

Suddenly they're adding $60MM & Shaq to the mix?
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
2/6/2008  10:20 AM
Posted by franco12:

so they are paying $60MM for some defense and rebounding?

How is his contract part of the argument, it's not their fault the Heat gave him that extension. If you're going to look at this from a salary standpoint then fine, you're right, it's horrible.

The Suns on the other hand are looking at this from the standpoint that Shaq can still D-up on Duncan, rebound and even score points when given the opportunity, not the fact that he's owed 60mill.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
2/6/2008  10:25 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by franco12:

so they are paying $60MM for some defense and rebounding?

How is his contract part of the argument, it's not their fault the Heat gave him that extension. If you're going to look at this from a salary standpoint then fine, you're right, it's horrible.

The Suns on the other hand are looking at this from the standpoint that Shaq can still D-up on Duncan, rebound and even score points when given the opportunity, not the fact that he's owed 60mill.

he hasn't even been healthy enough to play this year- I don't think he has anything left. the games I've watched, he hasn't exactly been moving.

Adding shaq doesn't put them over the top- he's a bad gamble on Kerr & co's part- and it rivals a Isiah Knick type deal for being short sighted and bad.

The only difference is that the Suns have been winning. I think they're worse off with this deal.
TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172

2/6/2008  10:27 AM
I remember people on this board were lashing out at me over the summer when I suggested PHX trade Shawn Marion for Luol Deng or Gerald Wallace(S&T) and give Marion a 2yr extension.

Anyway I like the deal for both teams. I particularly like it for PHX because they are still a more complete team after the trade. Meanwhile Miami still has a lot of work to do to put a complete team together. Miami has no Point Guard and no Center, two of your most important positions on a basketball team. PHX on the other hand still remain contenders and better yet if it doesn't work can rebuild with all the major assets they have.


People need not to forget the Suns won 54gms with Amare missing the whole season and made it to the WCF. IMO they can do no worse if not better.


Good trade for both teams
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nysportsfan11
Posts: 20252
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/20/2007
Member: #1782

2/6/2008  10:28 AM
This was a panic move by the Suns. If they're lucky Shaq will retire early.

Otherwise, the deal puts them no closer to beating LA or San Antonio and takes away the one person on their roster who could guard Dirk. The Lakers are still better or on par with them at 4 positions and the bench. And this does nothing to make San Antonio or Dallas flinch seeing as Phoenix's backcourt is going to keep Shaq in foul trouble with their horrible defense....if he plays.

Shawn Marion did everything for the Suns except be Steve Nash. To think an injury prone Hill or schitzo Diaw are going to fill that role is really gambling. But at least it gets rid of that headcase Banks and his annoying ass family.

It also shows that Shaq is adamant about playing out his deal otherwise he'd never have ok'd it. Although he doesn't have a no trade clause, he might as well with the way Mickey and Riles kiss his ass. The Suns fit his usual warm weather, winning record demands.

The Suns won't suck, but this is a lateral move. Miami comes out very well. They had to look down the road to when Wade can walk for nothing and he was extremely unhappy. They had to do something to give him some sign that they were committed to rebuilding. They could end up with a lineup of Rose, Wade, Marion or Wade, Marion, Beasley or just let Marion come off the cap and hope the lure of playing with Wade and a lottery pick in South Beach is enough to entice a few free agents.

The winner in all of this is Erik Spoelstra, Riley's heir. He's getting set up lovely to take over with a nice young squad.
Siar617
Posts: 21459
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2007
Member: #1742
USA
2/6/2008  10:28 AM
this doesn't hurt the suns shaqs not going to play 35 min
maybe 25 and the east is too big for the suns
i wouldn't have taken the old man but i can see why they did
wish we could have shoved zbo and jjames down their throats for marion
jesus617 walks
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
2/6/2008  10:28 AM
The main thing for NY is that after Marion is with Heat we have good chance to slide farther down to get more ping pong balls.
I like this trade....
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172

2/6/2008  10:34 AM
Posted by nysportsfan11:

This was a panic move by the Suns. If they're lucky Shaq will retire early.

Otherwise, the deal puts them no closer to beating LA or San Antonio and takes away the one person on their roster who could guard Dirk. The Lakers are still better or on par with them at 4 positions and the bench. And this does nothing to make San Antonio or Dallas flinch seeing as Phoenix's backcourt is going to keep Shaq in foul trouble with their horrible defense....if he plays.

Shawn Marion did everything for the Suns except be Steve Nash. To think an injury prone Hill or schitzo Diaw are going to fill that role is really gambling. But at least it gets rid of that headcase Banks and his annoying ass family.

It also shows that Shaq is adamant about playing out his deal otherwise he'd never have ok'd it. Although he doesn't have a no trade clause, he might as well with the way Mickey and Riles kiss his ass. The Suns fit his usual warm weather, winning record demands.

The Suns won't suck, but this is a lateral move. Miami comes out very well. They had to look down the road to when Wade can walk for nothing and he was extremely unhappy. They had to do something to give him some sign that they were committed to rebuilding. They could end up with a lineup of Rose, Wade, Marion or Wade, Marion, Beasley or just let Marion come off the cap and hope the lure of playing with Wade and a lottery pick in South Beach is enough to entice a few free agents.

The winner in all of this is Erik Spoelstra, Riley's heir. He's getting set up lovely to take over with a nice young squad.


It worked in 05-06 Diaw performed more than well. He kinda lost his way once Amare came back into the fray. The way I look at it Amare, Diaw, Shaq, Brian Skinner, Hill, Tucker are more than capable of handling any front court player in the West. Playoffs are about half court basketball and defense not Run N Gun and offense.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
NYKBocker
Posts: 38524
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
2/6/2008  10:50 AM
I think this is a good trade for the Suns. This is a reactionary move from the Gasol trade but having Shaq will definately get them better. Losing Marion is no big deal since they still have Boris to man the SF spot. If KT can play for the Suns, then I think Shaq should not have any problems with their scheme. If Shaq accepts his role as defender and rebounder and then be the focal point on half court offense when they do slow it down(which is what? 6 times a game?) then this is an excellent trade for the Suns.
TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172

2/6/2008  10:54 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:

I think this is a good trade for the Suns. This is a reactionary move from the Gasol trade but having Shaq will definately get them better. Losing Marion is no big deal since they still have Boris to man the SF spot. If KT can play for the Suns, then I think Shaq should not have any problems with their scheme. If Shaq accepts his role as defender and rebounder and then be the focal point on half court offense when they do slow it down(which is what? 6 times a game?) then this is an excellent trade for the Suns.


Not as much as he used to but Shaq still commands double teams and the Suns knock down 3's like no other. They should have even more wide open looks. Shaq was just as immobile last yr at times during the season but as we saw Kapono got paid, and James Posey was one of the league leaders in 3pt %.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nysportsfan11
Posts: 20252
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/20/2007
Member: #1782

2/6/2008  10:56 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
It worked in 05-06 Diaw performed more than well. He kinda lost his way once Amare came back into the fray. The way I look at it Amare, Diaw, Shaq, Brian Skinner, Hill, Tucker are more than capable of handling any front court player in the West. Playoffs are about half court basketball and defense not Run N Gun and offense.

Boris' problem is that he's a natural at the 4. In '05-06, he was playing the 4 and sometimes the 5. He was quicker, smarter and more athletic than most players he was going up against on a nightly basis in the regular season. He also spread the floor and took opponents' best rebounders from the basket. You now put him at the 3 with Shaq and Amare. He worked much better with Shawn than he does Amare whose ball dominance hurts Diaw's Odom-like game. Amare's jumper is incredible compared to what it used to be, but he still likes to come across the lane for jump hooks and dunks...a lane that will now be filled by Shaq who is wholly ineffective outside of 8 feet.

The good thing for the Suns is that no one is going to double Shaq, yet you still have to double Amare. If Shaq moves his slow ass for the first time in 2 years, he'll get plenty of open looks off passes from Amare and Boris.

But defensively, having Shaq stand there and watch as all of the faster 4's and 5's in the west eat him alive or picking up cheap fouls when Tony, Chris, Deron, and almost every other point guard not named Fisher or Skip blow right past Nash on a nightly basis, is not helping the cause. Who is the person on the Suns that D'Antoni is going to call on in the 4th quarter to stop the opponent's best player? Shawn Marion guarded everyone from Parker to Dirk to Kobe to Duncan. Now what? Diaw? Hill? As bad as the Suns were defensively, they will be far worse now that they don't have Marion out there creating turnovers, forcing players into bad shots, and playing help side to make up for all of Nash, Barbosa and Amare's mistakes. Raja Bell can't do it alone.
Mike and Mike: miami trades shaq for marion and banks

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy