Posted by BasketballJones:

Posted by nysportsfan11:

It's a shame some of you don't have the information to realize just how ridiculous you sound. First of all, NY is the largest media market. Period. Any conspiracies would begin and end with how they benefitted the Knicks if such conspiracies ever existed. I wonder if you'll be crying conspiracy when the Knicks finish with the 5th worst record and still get the number 1 pick in the draft this year and everyone from Minnesota to Oklahoma to Miami to Memphis screams '85.

Second of all, David Stern works for the owners. Once again, David Stern works for the owners. They are his employer. Do you really think 30 owners are going to agree to make a handful of teams competitive money makers based on market size and rivalries as the rest of the league flounders? Do you really think the 30 owners in this league who have carte blanche to investigate Stern whenever they feel like it (and do) wouldn't have put a stop to that even if it was happening?

Funny how there was no conspiracy when the Knicks had one of the longest playoff streaks in NBA history from '88-'01.

David Stern is a Knick fan for ****'s sake. If Stern had THAT much power, Dolan, Cuban, Sterling and Atlanta Spirit would have been gone a LONG time ago. No amount of Dolan hate could ever prevent Stern from fixing the Knicks' situation if he was into setting things up for the betterment of the league. Every league is financially healthier when their NY teams are doing well. If he had the power to get rid of Dolan he would have. If he had the power to steer free agents their way, he would have. It's not his fault the Knicks didn't use the Allan Houston Rule on....Allan Houston. It's not his fault the Knicks didn't protect their lottery picks or that they had to pray that Chicago didn't get Oden or Durant or that they don't lose Stephenson or Favors to Utah in 2010.

Do you think David Stern would have let Pat Riley, Jeff Van Gundy, Larry Brown, Dave Checketts or Lenny Wilkens...all either Stern guys or Knicks money makers to leave NY the way they did?

If David Stern really cared that much, why would he have "allowed" San Antonio, the very definition of a small market team, to win 4 of the last 9 championships? Why didn't Shaq "end up" in NY instead of Miami? Why was he ever "allowed" to leave LA, a team that was making money hand over fist for the entire league? Why would a place like Detroit house an elite franchise? Why would he "allow" the Clippers to suck for so long? Where was the "collusion" and "insider trading" when Denver...DENVER....got Allen Iverson for pennies on the dollar? Iverson who sells more jerseys than the Knicks entire roster combined. What makes more sense...setting up cash cow Michael Jordan with a job in NY, LA, Chicago or....Charlotte? Why would he "allow" New Orleans a team with historically horrible attendance, to field a playoff squad when he'd prefer to have nothing to do with the area...even before Katrina?

Maybe you guys should investigate the reasoning behind ownership sabotaging their own investment on and off the court at every level of the operation rather than trying to convince yourselves there's an undercover scheme going on around the rest of the league because Isiah spends more time improving other teams than he does his own.

There's just one thing I'm not clear on. Who does David Stern work for?

Posted by nysportsfan11:

It's a shame some of you don't have the information to realize just how ridiculous you sound. First of all, NY is the largest media market. Period. Any conspiracies would begin and end with how they benefitted the Knicks if such conspiracies ever existed. I wonder if you'll be crying conspiracy when the Knicks finish with the 5th worst record and still get the number 1 pick in the draft this year and everyone from Minnesota to Oklahoma to Miami to Memphis screams '85.

Second of all, David Stern works for the owners. Once again, David Stern works for the owners. They are his employer. Do you really think 30 owners are going to agree to make a handful of teams competitive money makers based on market size and rivalries as the rest of the league flounders? Do you really think the 30 owners in this league who have carte blanche to investigate Stern whenever they feel like it (and do) wouldn't have put a stop to that even if it was happening?

Funny how there was no conspiracy when the Knicks had one of the longest playoff streaks in NBA history from '88-'01.

David Stern is a Knick fan for ****'s sake. If Stern had THAT much power, Dolan, Cuban, Sterling and Atlanta Spirit would have been gone a LONG time ago. No amount of Dolan hate could ever prevent Stern from fixing the Knicks' situation if he was into setting things up for the betterment of the league. Every league is financially healthier when their NY teams are doing well. If he had the power to get rid of Dolan he would have. If he had the power to steer free agents their way, he would have. It's not his fault the Knicks didn't use the Allan Houston Rule on....Allan Houston. It's not his fault the Knicks didn't protect their lottery picks or that they had to pray that Chicago didn't get Oden or Durant or that they don't lose Stephenson or Favors to Utah in 2010.

Do you think David Stern would have let Pat Riley, Jeff Van Gundy, Larry Brown, Dave Checketts or Lenny Wilkens...all either Stern guys or Knicks money makers to leave NY the way they did?

If David Stern really cared that much, why would he have "allowed" San Antonio, the very definition of a small market team, to win 4 of the last 9 championships? Why didn't Shaq "end up" in NY instead of Miami? Why was he ever "allowed" to leave LA, a team that was making money hand over fist for the entire league? Why would a place like Detroit house an elite franchise? Why would he "allow" the Clippers to suck for so long? Where was the "collusion" and "insider trading" when Denver...DENVER....got Allen Iverson for pennies on the dollar? Iverson who sells more jerseys than the Knicks entire roster combined. What makes more sense...setting up cash cow Michael Jordan with a job in NY, LA, Chicago or....Charlotte? Why would he "allow" New Orleans a team with historically horrible attendance, to field a playoff squad when he'd prefer to have nothing to do with the area...even before Katrina?

Maybe you guys should investigate the reasoning behind ownership sabotaging their own investment on and off the court at every level of the operation rather than trying to convince yourselves there's an undercover scheme going on around the rest of the league because Isiah spends more time improving other teams than he does his own.

Posted by nysportsfan11:

It's a shame some of you don't have the information to realize just how ridiculous you sound. First of all, NY is the largest media market. Period. Any conspiracies would begin and end with how they benefitted the Knicks if such conspiracies ever existed. I wonder if you'll be crying conspiracy when the Knicks finish with the 5th worst record and still get the number 1 pick in the draft this year and everyone from Minnesota to Oklahoma to Miami to Memphis screams '85.

Second of all, David Stern works for the owners. Once again, David Stern works for the owners. They are his employer. Do you really think 30 owners are going to agree to make a handful of teams competitive money makers based on market size and rivalries as the rest of the league flounders? Do you really think the 30 owners in this league who have carte blanche to investigate Stern whenever they feel like it (and do) wouldn't have put a stop to that even if it was happening?

Funny how there was no conspiracy when the Knicks had one of the longest playoff streaks in NBA history from '88-'01.

David Stern is a Knick fan for ****'s sake. If Stern had THAT much power, Dolan, Cuban, Sterling and Atlanta Spirit would have been gone a LONG time ago. No amount of Dolan hate could ever prevent Stern from fixing the Knicks' situation if he was into setting things up for the betterment of the league. Every league is financially healthier when their NY teams are doing well. If he had the power to get rid of Dolan he would have. If he had the power to steer free agents their way, he would have. It's not his fault the Knicks didn't use the Allan Houston Rule on....Allan Houston. It's not his fault the Knicks didn't protect their lottery picks or that they had to pray that Chicago didn't get Oden or Durant or that they don't lose Stephenson or Favors to Utah in 2010.

Do you think David Stern would have let Pat Riley, Jeff Van Gundy, Larry Brown, Dave Checketts or Lenny Wilkens...all either Stern guys or Knicks money makers to leave NY the way they did?

If David Stern really cared that much, why would he have "allowed" San Antonio, the very definition of a small market team, to win 4 of the last 9 championships? Why didn't Shaq "end up" in NY instead of Miami? Why was he ever "allowed" to leave LA, a team that was making money hand over fist for the entire league? Why would a place like Detroit house an elite franchise? Why would he "allow" the Clippers to suck for so long? Where was the "collusion" and "insider trading" when Denver...DENVER....got Allen Iverson for pennies on the dollar? Iverson who sells more jerseys than the Knicks entire roster combined. What makes more sense...setting up cash cow Michael Jordan with a job in NY, LA, Chicago or....Charlotte? Why would he "allow" New Orleans a team with historically horrible attendance, to field a playoff squad when he'd prefer to have nothing to do with the area...even before Katrina?

Maybe you guys should investigate the reasoning behind ownership sabotaging their own investment on and off the court at every level of the operation rather than trying to convince yourselves there's an undercover scheme going on around the rest of the league because Isiah spends more time improving other teams than he does his own.

Posted by SlimPack:

If NBA insider trading is real how come dumars hasn't thrown us any bones?

Posted by oohah:

Posted by Solace:

The problem with this is that people complain, but then can't come up with any examples of better offers that were passed up.

You may not realize it Solace, but on this site, all we do is speculate about shyt that we don't know is true or not. Except for those of us that pretend to be insiders so we can condescend to others and claim to have some information that they do not.

oohah

Posted by playa2:

Posted by oohah:

Posted by Solace:

The problem with this is that people complain, but then can't come up with any examples of better offers that were passed up.

You may not realize it Solace, but on this site, all we do is speculate about shyt that we don't know is true or not. Except for those of us that pretend to be insiders so we can condescend to others and claim to have some information that they do not.

oohah

You probably thought Donaghy was the only ref cheating too.

You have a serious problem with mistaking speculation as fact. Knock it off with the conspiracy theories. Donaghy has nothing to do with this and I already commented on that back when it happened (which you clearly missed).

playa, just stick to the topic. If you think the Celts and Lakers both got unbalanced trades, then explain what you would have done differently and what better offers may have been out there.

By the way, on a slightly separate note, I find it highly amusing that guys are bitching about these when the Mets just got the best pitcher in baseball for basically a pile of garbage -- and there were at least two offers which were WAY better that the Twins passed on earlier. If you want to find a trade to be suspicious about, maybe it's that one.

Posted by oohah:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by oohah:

Posted by Solace:

The problem with this is that people complain, but then can't come up with any examples of better offers that were passed up.

You may not realize it Solace, but on this site, all we do is speculate about shyt that we don't know is true or not. Except for those of us that pretend to be insiders so we can condescend to others and claim to have some information that they do not.

oohah

You mean like you just did with this thread?

If you believe the media, which we all use own judgment on, these seem to be the best both teams could get for the players. Furthermore, if you break it down, you may actually realize that they're pretty fair trades. Especially the Garnett trade. If you're intent on trading Garnett, getting Al Jefferson is about the best you can do, because you're already coming from a point of weakness with a star player who is slightly past his prime. I have no doubt in my mind that Minnesota won the Garnett trade. The Gasol trade remains to be seen, but I think Memphis got a fair amount in return.

[Edited by - Solace on Feb 03 2008 12:10 PM]

Really? I did? I claimed to have insider information and then condescended to others about how much I knew and they didn't? Care to pull the quote where I did that? I won't hold my breath waiting.

***

You think that Minnesota got a fair deal? Al Jefferson and crapola is fair for Kevin Garnett?

Kwame the-worst-center-in-the-NBA Brown, Javaris Crittenton, and two very late first-round picks is fair for Pau Gasol?

If you say so dude.

oohah