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OT: Al Jefferson 39pts 15reb vs Suns
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TrueBlue
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1/24/2008  4:22 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Al Jefferson is clearly a stud and the indications were there last season. He was the Jermaine O'Neal situation where there was a young high school kid who couldn't put it all together right away, but now that he's at an age where you'd expect him to put it all together, he has.

To add another name: I'd take 'Sheed over Amare if I was the Suns. He's better and has championship experience. I know he's older, but so is Nash. The Pistons could use Amare to stick with the Pistons' young, awesome bench that is the future of that team. I guess short term: Rasheed Wallace, long term: Amare.

Another good arguable comparison
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JrZyHuStLa
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1/24/2008  5:50 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Al Jefferson is clearly a stud and the indications were there last season. He was the Jermaine O'Neal situation where there was a young high school kid who couldn't put it all together right away, but now that he's at an age where you'd expect him to put it all together, he has.

To add another name: I'd take 'Sheed over Amare if I was the Suns. He's better and has championship experience. I know he's older, but so is Nash. The Pistons could use Amare to stick with the Pistons' young, awesome bench that is the future of that team. I guess short term: Rasheed Wallace, long term: Amare.

Good post. Imagine Sheed playing in Phoenix with his long range game ? Talk about stretching the defense on already the most explosive offense in the league. Kinda scary.
VDesai
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1/24/2008  6:06 PM
The Suns I think could've traded Amare to get Garnett- that would've been a risky trade based on the age, but would've made a lot of sense. Garnett's 2 way ability could've made all the difference as he could easily make up for Amare's O.....
McK1
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1/24/2008  6:37 PM
Amare is the first of his kind at the 4/5.

Suns were wise not to trade him.

The Suns are healthy this year and after 3 straight seasons which included 2 trips to the WCF, I for 1 believe they have the metal to finally advance.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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1/24/2008  6:40 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:

I will take amare any day of the week... and I would take him over Jefferson... There are two bigs that I would take over amare. One is duncan, the other is Howard.. and Barely....

Yao?
Agree

In the short term I'd take Camby before I'd take Amare. Oh and let's not forget K.G.!



Ooops forgot and a healthy Brand who was in the MVP running two yrs ago.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-24-2008 2:58 PM]

Camby? dude, what you smokin.
I'd take Camby in the short-term too. He does everything better than Amare except scoring (which you can get elsewhere). Despite not playing a big role on offense, he even gets triple the assists Amare gets--plus 15 rbs, 4 blocks. You act like he said he'd take "Michael Doleac" over Amare. His statement surely wasn't that far-fetched even if you disagree with it.
McK1
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1/24/2008  6:48 PM
everybody is lauding Camby for his defensive stats. reading the Nuggz board on GM from the coach to the people in the nosebleed sections believe otherwise.

Camby's numbers as eye-popping as they are come from cheating on the weakside.

pick n roll and man to man post D are not apart of the stat laden package.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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1/24/2008  7:13 PM
Posted by McK1:

everybody is lauding Camby for his defensive stats. reading the Nuggz board on GM from the coach to the people in the nosebleed sections believe otherwise.

Camby's numbers as eye-popping as they are come from cheating on the weakside.

pick n roll and man to man post D are not apart of the stat laden package.

The sports writers who voted him DPOY would disagree. But if we grant your claim for a second, he's still better than Amare at all phases of defense (including man to man D).
McK1
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1/24/2008  8:12 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:

everybody is lauding Camby for his defensive stats. reading the Nuggz board on GM from the coach to the people in the nosebleed sections believe otherwise.

Camby's numbers as eye-popping as they are come from cheating on the weakside.

pick n roll and man to man post D are not apart of the stat laden package.

The sports writers who voted him DPOY would disagree. But if we grant your claim for a second, he's still better than Amare at all phases of defense (including man to man D).

yeah and after he got it Karl took a shot in the papers at Camby and the sportswriters in regards to him winning it.

Camby is no better at containing Duncan than Amare is, which is really what its all about. At least with Amare, Duncan will have his hands full on the other end.

Short term long term intermediate - if the goal is to win the title, trading Amare for Camby won't get you there
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
tkf
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1/24/2008  8:36 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:

everybody is lauding Camby for his defensive stats. reading the Nuggz board on GM from the coach to the people in the nosebleed sections believe otherwise.

Camby's numbers as eye-popping as they are come from cheating on the weakside.

pick n roll and man to man post D are not apart of the stat laden package.

The sports writers who voted him DPOY would disagree. But if we grant your claim for a second, he's still better than Amare at all phases of defense (including man to man D).

yeah and after he got it Karl took a shot in the papers at Camby and the sportswriters in regards to him winning it.

Camby is no better at containing Duncan than Amare is, which is really what its all about. At least with Amare, Duncan will have his hands full on the other end.

Short term long term intermediate - if the goal is to win the title, trading Amare for Camby won't get you there

exactly, and as you said, amare is the first of his kindat the 4/5. The way he runs the floor, finishes, passes and now he has a shot? plus he blocks over 2 shots a game. This kid is a no frills player, nothing fancy, just down to business, he is a beast, brings it every night, and to not be the first option in that offense, his numbers are damn good...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
playa2
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1/25/2008  7:05 AM
Posted by McK1:

everybody is lauding Camby for his defensive stats. reading the Nuggz board on GM from the coach to the people in the nosebleed sections believe otherwise.

Camby's numbers as eye-popping as they are come from cheating on the weakside.

pick n roll and man to man post D are not apart of the stat laden package.

I heard on a radio interview coach George Karl said the one player on the team he can't do without was Marcus Camby and he was hoping none of the other players heard his comments about the matter.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
TrueBlue
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1/28/2008  12:11 AM
Al Jefferson tonight vs the Nets 42min 13-21fg, 40pts, 19reb 3ast, 1stl 2blks
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islesfan
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1/28/2008  2:04 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Al Jefferson tonight vs the Nets 42min 13-21fg, 40pts, 19reb 3ast, 1stl 2blks

I don't get why anyone would compare him to Zach Randolph. Jefferson is a very good player, playing on a bad team. Randolph is a stat whore loser on any team that he's on.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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1/28/2008  9:31 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Al Jefferson tonight vs the Nets 42min 13-21fg, 40pts, 19reb 3ast, 1stl 2blks

I don't get why anyone would compare him to Zach Randolph. Jefferson is a very good player, playing on a bad team. Randolph is a stat whore loser on any team that he's on.

how do you differentiate the 2? Jefferson has never been on a winning team either right? Can't he be a stat whore who doesn't play a lick of D?
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islesfan
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1/28/2008  2:12 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Al Jefferson tonight vs the Nets 42min 13-21fg, 40pts, 19reb 3ast, 1stl 2blks

I don't get why anyone would compare him to Zach Randolph. Jefferson is a very good player, playing on a bad team. Randolph is a stat whore loser on any team that he's on.

how do you differentiate the 2? Jefferson has never been on a winning team either right? Can't he be a stat whore who doesn't play a lick of D?

It takes Randolph 4 games to accumulate 1 steal and 2 blocks. Not sure where you get the idea that these guys are comparable defensively.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Masterplan
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1/28/2008  2:19 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Al Jefferson tonight vs the Nets 42min 13-21fg, 40pts, 19reb 3ast, 1stl 2blks

I don't get why anyone would compare him to Zach Randolph. Jefferson is a very good player, playing on a bad team. Randolph is a stat whore loser on any team that he's on.

how do you differentiate the 2? Jefferson has never been on a winning team either right? Can't he be a stat whore who doesn't play a lick of D?

It takes Randolph 4 games to accumulate 1 steal and 2 blocks. Not sure where you get the idea that these guys are comparable defensively.

getting a steal and 2 blocks in a game makes you a good defender? come on, you know better than that. EDIT: if jamal had gotten a steal (averages 1 per game career) to go with his two blocks last game, does that make him a good defensive power forward?

check very early in the thread where i posted a TrueHoop link about al jefferson's defense. while it's not the end of the story by any means for a guy his age and abilities, it's a better perspective than quoting a pretty pedestrian defensive stat line.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 01-28-2008 2:22 PM]
McK1
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1/28/2008  2:23 PM
difference to any choosing GM:

ones on a rookie contract and is still at the age in years as well as games played where it is believed some things can still able to be "developed."

the other is not only maxed but at the Denny Green "we are who we thought he was" stage
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
islesfan
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1/28/2008  2:28 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Al Jefferson tonight vs the Nets 42min 13-21fg, 40pts, 19reb 3ast, 1stl 2blks

I don't get why anyone would compare him to Zach Randolph. Jefferson is a very good player, playing on a bad team. Randolph is a stat whore loser on any team that he's on.

how do you differentiate the 2? Jefferson has never been on a winning team either right? Can't he be a stat whore who doesn't play a lick of D?

It takes Randolph 4 games to accumulate 1 steal and 2 blocks. Not sure where you get the idea that these guys are comparable defensively.

getting a steal and 2 blocks in a game makes you a good defender? come on, you know better than that. EDIT: if jamal had gotten a steal (averages 1 per game career) to go with his two blocks last game, does that make him a good defensive power forward?

check very early in the thread where i posted a TrueHoop link about al jefferson's defense. while it's not the end of the story by any means for a guy his age and abilities, it's a better perspective than quoting a pretty pedestrian defensive stat line.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 01-28-2008 2:22 PM]

Dude, I'm not saying that Jefferson is a candidate for the All-Defensive team but he certainly plays and cares about defense more than Zach Randolph who refuses to play any defense. Randolph has proven that he's only interested in getting his "money" numbers. That makes him a stat whore loser. Jefferson isn't anywhere near that.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Masterplan
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1/28/2008  2:33 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Dude, I'm not saying that Jefferson is a candidate for the All-Defensive team but he certainly plays and cares about defense more than Zach Randolph who refuses to play any defense. Randolph has proven that he's only interested in getting his "money" numbers. That makes him a stat whore loser. Jefferson isn't anywhere near that.

just read the article or at least the quote man. third post in the thread, i think. there's at least one guy who covers a lot of t-wolves ball who disagrees with you.
Masterplan
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1/28/2008  2:34 PM
bump.
Posted by Masterplan:

local article courtesy of TrueHoop:

link
More than any game thus far this season, Jefferson played offense with a killer instinct. The raw numbers are pretty revealing: 39 points, 14 free throws, 8 offensive rebounds. Stoudemire was helpless. Or, better put, the Suns starting giving him a lot of help, with as many as two or three others collapsing on Jefferson when he received the rock, and it really didn't matter. If for some reason Jefferson didn't succeed at first, he got the ball back and tried again. The dude finished with 29 FGA (making 15) and 14 FTA (making 9) and it didn't feel like he was hogging the ball. That's when you know you are having fun.

A brief pause here, while I drop a fly in the punchbowl. Jefferson's utter lack of defense was nearly as monumental as his voracious offense. Stoudemire was 14 of 16 from the field and one of his two misses was a meaningless trey chucked with three seconds left in the game. He scored 33 points in the 29:40 that Jefferson was guarding him, which is why Jefferson finished the game with a team-worst minus -4. That doesn't change the fact that Jefferson was the dominant force in a Wolves' victory, because he most indisputably was. But it does neatly encapsulate the spectacularly half-assed season Jefferson is putting together. Okay, let's move on.
islesfan
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1/28/2008  2:43 PM
Posted by Masterplan:

bump.
Posted by Masterplan:

local article courtesy of TrueHoop:

link
More than any game thus far this season, Jefferson played offense with a killer instinct. The raw numbers are pretty revealing: 39 points, 14 free throws, 8 offensive rebounds. Stoudemire was helpless. Or, better put, the Suns starting giving him a lot of help, with as many as two or three others collapsing on Jefferson when he received the rock, and it really didn't matter. If for some reason Jefferson didn't succeed at first, he got the ball back and tried again. The dude finished with 29 FGA (making 15) and 14 FTA (making 9) and it didn't feel like he was hogging the ball. That's when you know you are having fun.

A brief pause here, while I drop a fly in the punchbowl. Jefferson's utter lack of defense was nearly as monumental as his voracious offense. Stoudemire was 14 of 16 from the field and one of his two misses was a meaningless trey chucked with three seconds left in the game. He scored 33 points in the 29:40 that Jefferson was guarding him, which is why Jefferson finished the game with a team-worst minus -4. That doesn't change the fact that Jefferson was the dominant force in a Wolves' victory, because he most indisputably was. But it does neatly encapsulate the spectacularly half-assed season Jefferson is putting together. Okay, let's move on.

Wait, so because Amare Stoudemire abused him on the defensive side, it means that he isn't even a mediocre defender in general? Talk about using a single stat line.

I still don't see where you can compare a 23 year old player learning how to be a dominant player can be compared to a stat whore like Zach Randolph.

I also saw this in that quote: "The dude finished with 29 FGA (making 15) and 14 FTA (making 9) and it didn't feel like he was hogging the ball."

How often can you say that about Randolph?

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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