Actually I have disputed it :

Principally-

1. Dunleavy started off with loads of talent in 2003 - who can dispute that -Wilcox, Barnes, Ely ,Bobby Simmons, Dooling, Eddie House the bench players were definitely better than what the knicks had on their bench in terms of Sweetney, Weatherspoon , Shandon Anderson, Eisly.

You can not compare this roster with the 2003 Knicks roster in any form or fashion- as it is more talented and younger.

2. He had a stud of a core to build around - Brand/Kaman/Maggette/Livingston/Ely/Wilcox/Barnes/Dooling/Bobby Simmons

3. Overall - in terms of all the years except this year - he still has a losing record and tahts with on eyear of going to the playoffs. The 152-176 record does not include this year.

I already mentioned that except for this year - Brand was not hurt and Livningston fragile health precipitated the signing of both Mobley and Cassel (we all know about this and that was 3 years ago!!- plus still decent players along with Maggette,Tim Thomas, Brevin Knight, Al Thornton, Quniton Ross etc.

The coach -especially if he has been there for 5 years does have to take responsibility for a team going 12-25 when only one of their star players goes down (I don't think anyone is going to count Livingston as a very being a crucial piece -intriguing potential that gets hurt a lot (yes) -but definitely not a core piece). Coaches who are there for 5 continuos years do have a responsibility to get the team playing better with out just one of its superstar's- thats what coaches are paid to do - develop a team.

Anyway- --



I am not going to over-talk it. Seems like I am in the moinority on this view.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by iyamwutiam:

Actually I have disputed it :

Principally-

1. Dunleavy started off with loads of talent in 2003 - who can dispute that -Wilcox, Barnes, Ely ,Bobby Simmons, Dooling, Eddie House the bench players were definitely better than what the knicks had on their bench in terms of Sweetney, Weatherspoon , Shandon Anderson, Eisly.

You can not compare this roster with the 2003 Knicks roster in any form or fashion- as it is more talented and younger.

2. He had a stud of a core to build around - Brand/Kaman/Maggette/Livingston/Ely/Wilcox/Barnes/Dooling/Bobby Simmons

3. Overall - in terms of all the years except this year - he still has a losing record and tahts with on eyear of going to the playoffs. The 152-176 record does not include this year.

I already mentioned that except for this year - Brand was not hurt and Livningston fragile health precipitated the signing of both Mobley and Cassel (we all know about this and that was 3 years ago!!- plus still decent players along with Maggette,Tim Thomas, Brevin Knight, Al Thornton, Quniton Ross etc.

The coach -especially if he has been there for 5 years does have to take responsibility for a team going 12-25 when only one of their star players goes down (I don't think anyone is going to count Livingston as a very being a crucial piece -intriguing potential that gets hurt a lot (yes) -but definitely not a core piece). Coaches who are there for 5 continuos years do have a responsibility to get the team playing better with out just one of its superstar's- thats what coaches are paid to do - develop a team.

Anyway- --



I am not going to over-talk it. Seems like I am in the moinority on this view.

I'll make it simple. Dispute what he said about the Knicks.

Bobby Simmons left in Free Agency to Milwaukee what has he done since? Wilcox was damn near a rookie then playing behind Brand. Ely ditto. Oooops did Simmons leave because Sterling didn't want to give him a $50mil contract? I think so and wise of Sterling. Didn't the Clippers advance to the Playoff Semi's in 2005 after losing half the players from 2003? They came within a chance of going to a game seven to advancing to the WCF. Haven't the Clippers won more than the Knicks the past 3yrs playing in far tougher conference and division. We haven't even been the F'N playoffs the past 3 seasons.

Man your arguments make absolutely no sense.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by iyamwutiam:

Actually I have disputed it :

Principally-

1. Dunleavy started off with loads of talent in 2003 - who can dispute that -Wilcox, Barnes, Ely ,Bobby Simmons, Dooling, Eddie House the bench players were definitely better than what the knicks had on their bench in terms of Sweetney, Weatherspoon , Shandon Anderson, Eisly.

You can not compare this roster with the 2003 Knicks roster in any form or fashion- as it is more talented and younger.

2. He had a stud of a core to build around - Brand/Kaman/Maggette/Livingston/Ely/Wilcox/Barnes/Dooling/Bobby Simmons

3. Overall - in terms of all the years except this year - he still has a losing record and tahts with on eyear of going to the playoffs. The 152-176 record does not include this year.

I already mentioned that except for this year - Brand was not hurt and Livningston fragile health precipitated the signing of both Mobley and Cassel (we all know about this and that was 3 years ago!!- plus still decent players along with Maggette,Tim Thomas, Brevin Knight, Al Thornton, Quniton Ross etc.

The coach -especially if he has been there for 5 years does have to take responsibility for a team going 12-25 when only one of their star players goes down (I don't think anyone is going to count Livingston as a very being a crucial piece -intriguing potential that gets hurt a lot (yes) -but definitely not a core piece). Coaches who are there for 5 continuos years do have a responsibility to get the team playing better with out just one of its superstar's- thats what coaches are paid to do - develop a team.

Anyway- --



I am not going to over-talk it. Seems like I am in the moinority on this view.

I'll make it simple. Dispute what he said about the Knicks.

Bobby Simmons left in Free Agency to Milwaukee what has he done since? Wilcox was damn near a rookie then playing behind Brand. Ely ditto. Oooops did Simmons leave because Sterling didn't want to give him a $50mil contract? I think so and wise of Sterling. Didn't the Clippers advance to the Playoff Semi's in 2005 after losing half the players from 2003? They came within a chance of going to a game seven to advancing to the WCF. Haven't the Clippers won more than the Knicks the past 3yrs playing in far tougher conference and division. We haven't even been the F'N playoffs the past 3 seasons.

Man your arguments make absolutely no sense.

My argument is simply that MD walked onto a talent loaded team- went to the playoffs, and that one player being down should not result in a 12-25 season per se. Even if it does - I seriously doubt - since the mention of the Terry for Maggette deal didn't go through - can be a major contributor to this record when they still have most of the core that he went to the playoffs with - even if Brand did get hurt this year. Being rookies has what to do with anything - thats how you develop depth -isn't that what the draft and the 3 year rookie contracts are for?

As I said - regardless of this year - he still had a losing record for his tenure, he makes 6M a year to coach, and I have no idea where he is coming from with the Knicks- as he has no bad contracts. He should take responsibility for his record- thats all I am saying- instead of mentioning the Knicks, etc etc etc etc

I am not sure where you are reading everything else.





[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-23-2008 8:04 PM]

Posted by iyamwutiam:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by iyamwutiam:

Actually I have disputed it :

Principally-

1. Dunleavy started off with loads of talent in 2003 - who can dispute that -Wilcox, Barnes, Ely ,Bobby Simmons, Dooling, Eddie House the bench players were definitely better than what the knicks had on their bench in terms of Sweetney, Weatherspoon , Shandon Anderson, Eisly.

You can not compare this roster with the 2003 Knicks roster in any form or fashion- as it is more talented and younger.

2. He had a stud of a core to build around - Brand/Kaman/Maggette/Livingston/Ely/Wilcox/Barnes/Dooling/Bobby Simmons

3. Overall - in terms of all the years except this year - he still has a losing record and tahts with on eyear of going to the playoffs. The 152-176 record does not include this year.

I already mentioned that except for this year - Brand was not hurt and Livningston fragile health precipitated the signing of both Mobley and Cassel (we all know about this and that was 3 years ago!!- plus still decent players along with Maggette,Tim Thomas, Brevin Knight, Al Thornton, Quniton Ross etc.

The coach -especially if he has been there for 5 years does have to take responsibility for a team going 12-25 when only one of their star players goes down (I don't think anyone is going to count Livingston as a very being a crucial piece -intriguing potential that gets hurt a lot (yes) -but definitely not a core piece). Coaches who are there for 5 continuos years do have a responsibility to get the team playing better with out just one of its superstar's- thats what coaches are paid to do - develop a team.

Anyway- --



I am not going to over-talk it. Seems like I am in the moinority on this view.

I'll make it simple. Dispute what he said about the Knicks.

Bobby Simmons left in Free Agency to Milwaukee what has he done since? Wilcox was damn near a rookie then playing behind Brand. Ely ditto. Oooops did Simmons leave because Sterling didn't want to give him a $50mil contract? I think so and wise of Sterling. Didn't the Clippers advance to the Playoff Semi's in 2005 after losing half the players from 2003? They came within a chance of going to a game seven to advancing to the WCF. Haven't the Clippers won more than the Knicks the past 3yrs playing in far tougher conference and division. We haven't even been the F'N playoffs the past 3 seasons.

Man your arguments make absolutely no sense.

My argument is simply that MD walked onto a talent loaded team- went to the playoffs, and that one player being down should not result in a 12-25 season per se. Even if it does - I seriously doubt - since the mention of the Terry for Maggette deal didn't go through - can be a major contributor to this record when they still have most of the core that he went to the playoffs with - even if Brand did get hurt this year. Being rookies has what to do with anything - thats how you develop depth -isn't that what the draft and the 3 year rookie contracts are for?

As I said - regardless of this year - he still had a losing record for his tenure, he makes 6M a year to coach, and I have no idea where he is coming from with the Knicks- as he has no bad contracts. He should take responsibility for his record- thats all I am saying- instead of mentioning the Knicks, etc etc etc etc

I am not sure where you are reading everything else.





[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-23-2008 8:04 PM]

Should Isiah take the responsibility for bad Knicks records last year and this year?
And what do you mean under taking the responsibility?
Resign? Admit mistakes? Change the strategy? Punch himself in the face?

For arguments sake, let's say that Dunleavy is the worst coach in the history of the NBA. What does that have to do with what he said? Everyone is saying it. Not just Dunleavy

Posted by iyamwutiam:

isiah should take responsibility - but he should take full responsibility if he went to a talent loaded team - went to the semi's and was coaching there non-stop for 5 years.

everyone should take responsibility - who has coached the same team for the last 5 years - Eddie Jordan, Doc Rivers, Lawrence frank, you name it.

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-23-2008 8:14 PM]

Isiah was there for last 5 years. He was/is more than coach - he is/was GM and coach.
He is solely responsible for this historic debacle and... he, yet, refuses to take any responsibility with all this excuses (included posted by you).
There is only one man in the world still believing in Isiah and his "team" bull sheet - Dolan.
Only because of this Isiah is still around... unfortunately.
And this is nothing to do with anything done by anybody in NBA.

Posted by iyamwutiam:

The fact is everyone agrees the Knicks roster was horrible - particularly Van Gundy - who quit before it became noticable that the only coaching he knew was sucking up to players and copying Riley's playbook. The team finished with 30 and 37 wins before Isiah got here in Dec 23d 2003. Notice that by Jan 23d -half the season is over! When a guy who has been with your organization for over 6 years ups and quits - its because he knows the jig is up - there was no talent - nothing at all like when MD was brought in with the 2003 Clippers.

Anyway - I guess your just locked in on the 'Its all Isiah's fault' channel - so i will let you get back to your regularly scheduled 'programming'.

The only thing your locked into is the Isiah bandwagon channel. Your propaganda views are shared by noone else other than Jim Dolan. Give it a rest.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

Say what you want about Dunleavy but he happens to be 100% right about what he said.

It's funny how people are more interested in bashing Dunleavy than disputing what he said. Maybe it's because they can't so it's easier to just bash him.

Dunleavy's absolutely right in what he said, ur 100% right about that, but in fairness you can't really blame people for getting on Dunleavy's case when his team has a worse record... i'm pretty sure you'd get on Isiah's case if he started lecturing about how players should be conducting themselves off the court for example, no matter how dead on his comments may have been.

Nope, I don't get on Isiah without just cause.

MD..... It's Our Job Not To Let You Down!