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TMS
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1/20/2008  5:54 PM
Isiah led his team to back to back championships & was 1 of the best PG's to ever play the game... i'd say that puts him relatively in the elite of alltime as a player.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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islesfan
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1/20/2008  5:57 PM
Posted by TMS:

Isiah led his team to back to back championships & was 1 of the best PG's to ever play the game... i'd say that puts him relatively in the elite of alltime as a player.

There is the elite and then there's the elite of the elite. Isiah is in the former, Bird and Magic are in the latter.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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1/20/2008  6:17 PM
i dunno... if u ask me i think the only players who are completely head & shoulders above anyone else who's ever played in the game are MJ & Wilt... Magic, Bird, Big O & Isiah, all of them redefined their positions in the eras in which they played... i'd probably put Isiah below those guys but the disparity in terms of talent is not as far reaching IMHO... i'd probably put Isiah alongside guys like Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Stockton & Malone in a tier just below those other dudes.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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1/20/2008  6:25 PM
Posted by kam77:

You keep changing your definition of what it means to change the game. You're quoting me media clippings about salaries.

What Isiah didn't make millions too?
Isiah didn't win an NCAA chamionship too?
Isiah didn't have a fierce rivalry with Larry too?
Isiah wasn't a 12 time all-star too?
Isiah wasn't voted 5 times into All-NBA first/second teams too?
Isiah didn't play in 3 NBA finals (he had to go through BIRD -- Magic went through what All-Time great?)
Isiah didn't win back-to-back TITLES too?
Isiah wasn't a first-time ballot HOF inductee too?

Isiah was all those things! AND played in a harder conference, against stiffer competition and at a height disadvantage!

All Magic has over Isiah is a few more votes into All-NBA teams and some more TITLES and ASSISTS. But who wouldn't have ASSISTS playing in an up-tempo SHOWTIME game rather than BAD-Boy thugball? And who wouldn't have more titles with Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, AC, etc? Especially when not having to play against your Larry Bird and Michael Jordan in the conf. finals every year?

You have to give all due respect for Isiah's playing career. He was an all-time great. No matter what he's done to tarnish his legacy.


[Edited by - kam77 on 01-20-2008 5:17 PM]

Don't get me wrong..Isiah was a great player..Just not an all time great with those that define greatness...I like how you brush off Magic winning three more Championships like it's nothing...There are many players with greatness attached to their names looking for just one...Also brushing off his assist totals...Thats like saying Kidd just has a few more assist than Marbury..
Silverfuel
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1/20/2008  6:33 PM
Magic also had the most dominant center of the decade playing next to him.
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Silverfuel
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1/20/2008  6:33 PM
Posted by TMS:

i dunno... if u ask me i think the only players who are completely head & shoulders above anyone else who's ever played in the game are MJ & Wilt... Magic, Bird, Big O & Isiah, all of them redefined their positions in the eras in which they played...
Agreed.

Now for some football and a little booze. BIG BLUE!!!!
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TMS
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1/20/2008  6:36 PM
WORD!!!
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martin
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1/20/2008  6:37 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by TMS:

i dunno... if u ask me i think the only players who are completely head & shoulders above anyone else who's ever played in the game are MJ & Wilt... Magic, Bird, Big O & Isiah, all of them redefined their positions in the eras in which they played...
Agreed.

Now for some football and a little booze. BIG BLUE!!!!

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TMS
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1/20/2008  6:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

i dunno... if u ask me i think the only players who are completely head & shoulders above anyone else who's ever played in the game are MJ & Wilt... Magic, Bird, Big O & Isiah, all of them redefined their positions in the eras in which they played... i'd probably put Isiah below those guys but the disparity in terms of talent is not as far reaching IMHO... i'd probably put Isiah alongside guys like Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Stockton & Malone in a tier just below those other dudes.

forgot to include Duncan in that list as well.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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1/20/2008  6:38 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by TMS:

i dunno... if u ask me i think the only players who are completely head & shoulders above anyone else who's ever played in the game are MJ & Wilt... Magic, Bird, Big O & Isiah, all of them redefined their positions in the eras in which they played...
Agreed.

Now for some football and a little booze. BIG BLUE!!!!

Drinking Labatts? That's one of my favs!

working on my 5th one of these

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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1/20/2008  6:40 PM
Posted by TMS:

i dunno... if u ask me i think the only players who are completely head & shoulders above anyone else who's ever played in the game are MJ & Wilt... Magic, Bird, Big O & Isiah, all of them redefined their positions in the eras in which they played... i'd probably put Isiah below those guys but the disparity in terms of talent is not as far reaching IMHO... i'd probably put Isiah alongside guys like Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Stockton & Malone in a tier just below those other dudes.

Please have a little more respect for Kareem...You are talking about a guy who average better than 20 pts per game for 17 years....14 boards for 12 years...19 time all star...5 time first defensive team...6 times second all defensive team...4.3 assist for 12 years(thats better than our new point guard(Craw)career total....6 Championship rings...6 time NBA MVP...Come on please...
TMS
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1/20/2008  6:41 PM
ur right, my bad... he deserves to be in the same tier w/Bird, Magic & O... chalk it up to temporary booze induced insanity

[Edited by - TMS on 01-20-2008 3:42 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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1/20/2008  6:42 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

Magic also had the most dominant center of the decade playing next to him.

You are giving me an assist for an easy layup here...Kareem was hurt and Magic played center...I think you know the rest...
kam77
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1/20/2008  7:25 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Silverfuel:

Magic also had the most dominant center of the decade playing next to him.

You are giving me an assist for an easy layup here...Kareem was hurt and Magic played center...I think you know the rest...


The point is.. Kareem was a better player than Isiah ever had as a teammate.

Isiah and Magic beat each other. Bird and Isiah beat each other. Heck, Jordan and Isiah beat each other. I think you have to include Isiah in that conversation.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
holfresh
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1/20/2008  8:27 PM
I don't understand where somehow players get a career demerit for playing with better players...Isiah has never won an NBA MVP...Larry Legend 3 times...Magic 3 times...Airness 5 times...Kareem 6 times...Doc 1...

Greatness...

How could you be considered an all time great and not win at least one NBA MVP...



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-20-2008 8:50 PM]
King1
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1/20/2008  9:55 PM
Holfresh I cant believe I am saying this but I total agree with you. Don't put IT with the greats of this game. He is a HOF but he didnt change the way the game was played.
kam77
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1/20/2008  10:09 PM
lol... "change the way the game was played" wow.... what a nebulous statement. You think we see an Allen Iverson if we don't see Isiah thomas?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
kam77
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1/20/2008  10:10 PM
Actually... Isiah had a huge impact on the game.. .soome say negative... he was one of the first shoot-first ball pounding PGs. He really took the PG to a new level and made a place for the little man in todays game.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TMS
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1/20/2008  10:31 PM
exactly
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Silverfuel
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1/20/2008  10:45 PM
Posted by kam77:

Actually... Isiah had a huge impact on the game.. .soome say negative... he was one of the first shoot-first ball pounding PGs. He really took the PG to a new level and made a place for the little man in todays game.
agreed, good post.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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