It's not about the 3 wins. For whatever reason the players seem to have figured out what they need to do and they're doing it. The things we all saw the players doing wrong are being done right all of a sudden. Let's see if they can keep this up for the rest of the year. Nate has been playing better and better all season. Jamal is settling into a nice groove. If we can get consistent play from those two and more inspired play from everyone else, this team isn't bad. It's not great, but it's not as bad as it seemed during all the losing.

Most of the trades proposed wouldn't really help our situation. Unless we're talking picks, I don't see much good in most of these trades. A year or two less in contract is OK I guess, but it doesn't get me that excited. We know we could use a stud at Guard or SF, so picks are more useful to us at this point.

Posted by nixluva:

It's not about the 3 wins. For whatever reason the players seem to have figured out what they need to do and they're doing it. The things we all saw the players doing wrong are being done right all of a sudden. Let's see if they can keep this up for the rest of the year. Nate has been playing better and better all season. Jamal is settling into a nice groove. If we can get consistent play from those two and more inspired play from everyone else, this team isn't bad. It's not great, but it's not as bad as it seemed during all the losing.

Most of the trades proposed wouldn't really help our situation. Unless we're talking picks, I don't see much good in most of these trades. A year or two less in contract is OK I guess, but it doesn't get me that excited. We know we could use a stud at Guard or SF, so picks are more useful to us at this point.

yeah, if Jamal can just keep shooting 65% from 3, we should be fine.

Trades are so cool!

Won't part with Nate and Balky for Ron Ron?????

Man is trying to get fired!

No Bibby please.

Zach for Wallace is not cool, but Wallace with Eddy is. Yeah, you do it. Makes Eddy better.

Don't worry about Grunwald, he won't take us down. Its bigger than one man!

Hughes for Craw? No thanks, they are the same player but Craw is better. I would take Artest but not for Balk and N8. Let him come as a FA if he is serious about being a Knick.

NY is 6-8 without marbury; 7-18 with him. Now that he is out the rest of the year, I only hope IT tells him to stay in Brooklyn to rehab. I would like to see the team without the cancerous tumor hanging around their neck.

12-26, the day Marbs is done for sure. Halfway. Let's see what the 2nd half brings.

I meant 2-3 million a year for the rooks- sorry

Posted by iyamwutiam:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm - if we move the Marbury and Rose by this year - we would be under the cap for sure, if we let it expire (two summers from now) we are under the cap. Same thing -also Fred Jones will be gone next year..

i looked at those numbers. like Andrew said, we may be down to $58 mil, thus under the cap by a million or two (cap numbers) if we don't sign anyone - lee, nate, artest, our upcoming picks. bottom line, to get under the cap to the point we can sign a significant FA, we need to dump a lot more salaries than just steph malik and fred.

The youth is good. As I said earlier- name any team with 4 late first round picks still on the roster - much less being significant contributors- compare them to say the Celtics- with Del West, Green, and Tony Allen all drafted around the same spot.

you need to try to come up with answers to these questions yourself before saying this kind of thing. just the first team that came to mind for me was detroit - prince, maxiell, stuckey and afflalo, and that's just off the top of my head. i'm sure at least a third of NBA teams are getting contributions from at least 2 low #1s and have at least 2 other #1s on their roster.

you did the same thing with the "2 defensive stoppers off the bench" nonsense. plus, i came up with a team with comparable roster attrition since the layden days in another thread (toronto, if you missed it). save me the time and figure this stuff out yourself.

Curry/Randolph as a hybrid center - together will average (combined) 25 points and 15 rebounds a game for like 20M a year -I will take that. Also Jeffries has started being that defensive piece -he had good games against Washington, Detroit for sure and seems to be playing better.

Front court D- like Wallace- he really has catapulted the Bulls to new heights huh? Even a player as dominant as Camby - has not been the difference for Denver- it has been -gasp- Allen Iverson! A single player or duo - will never be enough - this league has too much talent - and too many scorers. Knicks -defensive style of play netted them ZERO championships- and only 1 finals in all the years.

first of all, in two years zach makes $16 mil + on his own. he and eddy would be the most expensive C rotation in the league by far (not even counting jerome's salary). not to mention the worst defensive one.

funny you should mention ben wallace... he was only the defensive backbone of a championship pistons team. come on dude, we *NEED* frontcourt defense. downplaying the contributions of a wallace or camby is ridiculous. they may not be the best players on their teams (ben isn't even close at this stage of his career), but in general good defense is essential to team success. it's not even worth comparing the ewing (and jordan...) years to isiah in terms of knick team accomplishments.

All I am saying is - unless it's Elton Brand or Amare Stoudemire- don't move the youth and low contracts or expiring contracts. Thse are the ONLY two player I can see trying to acquire. I am feverishly hoping penny pinching Donald Sterling will do what he always does- be cheep. If we give him an expiring contract (30M) and low priced youth - Lee or Balkman - then to land wither Stoudemire or brand (especially Brand). Thats is the best deal.

this is cool. but why are you defending isiah and advocating starting this strategy now? why not before the zach, curry and steve francis trades?

the only names linked to us in trade rumors are guys with bigtime question marks like t-mac, artest, bibby, larry hughes. i have zero faith isiah has put his starphucking days behind him.


[Edited by - Masterplan on 01-18-2008 2:17 PM]

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by iyamwutiam:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm - if we move the Marbury and Rose by this year - we would be under the cap for sure, if we let it expire (two summers from now) we are under the cap. Same thing -also Fred Jones will be gone next year..

i looked at those numbers. like Andrew said, we may be down to $58 mil, thus under the cap by a million or two (cap numbers) if we don't sign anyone - lee, nate, artest, our upcoming picks. bottom line, to get under the cap to the point we can sign a significant FA, we need to dump a lot more salaries than just steph malik and fred.

The youth is good. As I said earlier- name any team with 4 late first round picks still on the roster - much less being significant contributors- compare them to say the Celtics- with Del West, Green, and Tony Allen all drafted around the same spot.

you need to try to come up with answers to these questions yourself before saying this kind of thing. just the first team that came to mind for me was detroit - prince, maxiell, stuckey and afflalo, and that's just off the top of my head. i'm sure at least a third of NBA teams are getting contributions from at least 2 low #1s and have at least 2 other #1s on their roster.

you did the same thing with the "2 defensive stoppers off the bench" nonsense. plus, i came up with a team with comparable roster attrition since the layden days in another thread (toronto, if you missed it). save me the time and figure this stuff out yourself.

Curry/Randolph as a hybrid center - together will average (combined) 25 points and 15 rebounds a game for like 20M a year -I will take that. Also Jeffries has started being that defensive piece -he had good games against Washington, Detroit for sure and seems to be playing better.

Front court D- like Wallace- he really has catapulted the Bulls to new heights huh? Even a player as dominant as Camby - has not been the difference for Denver- it has been -gasp- Allen Iverson! A single player or duo - will never be enough - this league has too much talent - and too many scorers. Knicks -defensive style of play netted them ZERO championships- and only 1 finals in all the years.

first of all, in two years zach makes $16 mil + on his own. he and eddy would be the most expensive C rotation in the league by far (not even counting jerome's salary). not to mention the worst defensive one.

funny you should mention ben wallace... he was only the defensive backbone of a championship pistons team. come on dude, we *NEED* frontcourt defense. downplaying the contributions of a wallace or camby is ridiculous. they may not be the best players on their teams (ben isn't even close at this stage of his career), but in general good defense is essential to team success. it's not even worth comparing the ewing (and jordan...) years to isiah in terms of knick team accomplishments.

All I am saying is - unless it's Elton Brand or Amare Stoudemire- don't move the youth and low contracts or expiring contracts. Thse are the ONLY two player I can see trying to acquire. I am feverishly hoping penny pinching Donald Sterling will do what he always does- be cheep. If we give him an expiring contract (30M) and low priced youth - Lee or Balkman - then to land wither Stoudemire or brand (especially Brand). Thats is the best deal.

this is cool. but why are you defending isiah and advocating starting this strategy now? why not before the zach, curry and steve francis trades?

the only names linked to us in trade rumors are guys with bigtime question marks like t-mac, artest, bibby, larry hughes. i have zero faith isiah has put his starphucking days behind him.


[Edited by - Masterplan on 01-18-2008 2:17 PM]

Masterplan and Andrew- thank you for the insight and also fact checking.

Masterplan - I got to give it up to you - your absolutely right about the Affalo, Stuckey, Prince, Milic, Maxiel, Delfino - and one second rounder in terms of Amir Johnson. However- at this point - Lee has played more minutes, scored more points and has more rebounds although they were both drafted at the same time. I agree that Maxiell is on a much deeper and better team and in just 2-3 years - it can be considered a toss-up but right now Lee was drafted 30th, played more minutes and has better numbers - at least offensively. Robinson also.

Please go here for some of my view points (http://www.cosellout.com/?p=131%20The%20Salary%20Cap%20Myth.) Please try and read the book of Isiah. I am not the author - but i have felt similarly on a lot of issues and was delighted to find the site which in many ways agrees with my perspective. I have always said that Isiah was a 'last' choice candidate and did come with 'baggage' - I also said realistically - it is naive to expect that he would be given the keys to the kingdom and be allowed to run the show-as he had in say Indiana. The addition of two hall of fame caches back to back - basically reduced his role and I think it is fair to say that his limited 3 year contract (unprecedented for what he was asked to do) lend support the request that one can not attribute all moves to Isiah. I have strongly emphasized that the LB signing -does not fit Isiah's style or methods previously and was in all probability foisted on him. This was disastrous as it really set the team back two years - in my view - and I understand it is open to interpretation. However- the key point is -that allow Isiah to work with these players for two to three years with out interference and perhaps it is not as bad as it is made out= 'Worst GM ever'.

I can not find the link - but I had just read it a few days ago -regarding the fact the deal for Marbury was already in place Layden dallied on pulling the trigger- was fired and Isiah expected to finish the deal-which if its your first 'day' on the job - you do. In addition - I can point to a myriad of sources and reasons - that the Steve Francis/Antonio Davis/Jalen Rose and Jerome James were all not just requested by LB but rater pursued because of LB. The two simplest reasons are - his tiffs with Marbury- so he brought in Francis as a power trip, and he wanted some of his old players mainly Antonio Davis and Jalen Rose- both from Chicago. It was quite public that Antonio wanted to go back to Chicago and LB was there to help him out. The Curry trade - had everything in the Knicks favor - they had signed him/or wanted to - then insisted on the DNA test and were stonewalled- so i firmly believe we did not have to give up more than a one year swap of picks for this. But - as you pointed out - I have been wrong before.

No doubt Q.Rich (often hurt and now can't shoot), Crawford, Lee, Curry, Nate, Balkman and Chandler are unequivocally Isiah's picks ad perhaps mistakes as well. I did contend that the Randolph trade moved close to 45M or so of salaries (Francis @ 20M/year+ Frye@5mill) for which we took on Randolph, jones and unfortunately (IMO) let go Nichols a very good second round pick. Regardless of Curry's defense - he did lead the Knicks i scoring and led the NBA in FG% and had done what he was brought in to do - draw attention to himself in the post at a pretty reasonable salary (locked up for 7 years). Crawford - this year may be establishing himself as a mature player who is also becoming an asset.

As for the salary cap - below you will see that the salary cap will be the lowest even at 88 million next year (but hopefully lower-say at 80M) - then any period during the last ten years. The Knicks have routinely gone over the salary cap and routinely signed big name players -only to be disappointed (Larry Johnson, Charles Smith, Alln Houston, Keith Van Horne)- all making over 15M a year or much more. If we can ever agree to rule out or mitigate the LB period and damage - you will see that isiah has tried and did reduce our cap. There are/were a lot of moves and it is confusing - but on completion of his first year - he did parlay contracts in to 3 first round draft picks - who if they can play decently - has immense salary cap implications going forward.



The Knicks cap - would be the lowest it has ever been in over the years though -relative to the cap- I could only find data from 97/97 0nat=rds though - .
Salary cap/Knicks Salary /Year Record
27 54.5M 97/98 43-39 Ewing+LJ=30M
30 62.4 98/99 27-23 P.Ew +LJ=44M& Spree+Houston=10M
34 73M 99/00 50-32
35.5 65.5M 00/01 48-34 -Van Gundy saw the writing on the wall and QUIT
42 94M!! 01/02 30/52
40.27 76M 02/03 37-45
43.84 146.8M!!! 03/04 39/43 -Isiah hired in Dec.- so not all the salary can be attributed to him
43.87 110.9M 04/05 33/49
49.5 160.8M 05/06 23-59 - Perhaps a bad record was not the only reason Larry Brown was fired?!!
53.13 101.4 06/07 33-49
55.6 88M 07/08 ???

Posted by iyamwutiam:

Sorry I meant antonio davis wanted to go back to Toronto

yo man, you can edit your own posts, you realize that, right?

OK- I figured it out - but the symbols for editing post come up later - anyway - i think I have got it now -BTW - thank you v much.

Sucks the Knciks lost watched the whole game- sighh- Close - but it seems they are actually afraid of winning 4 in a row