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The 2 most criminally stupid strategic moves of Zeke's tenure with the Knicks ...
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MS
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1/15/2008  10:12 AM
I must me missing something, iyamwutiam I am reading you giving this team credit saying the players are playing harder because they beat a couple of good teams. These players are losers with no pride and all of them were brought in by isiah they have lost by 10-15pts over 15 times already this season quit with regularity and you want to bring up Isiah has been unfairly treated.

Teams don't give away 23pts 10rbs if the player isn't a cancer. Portland magically is one of the best teams in the NBA all of a sudden without Zach. The Knicks would have won at least 5 more games if they didn't have to watch him launch off balanced shots and not get back in transition because he is complaining.

There is zero accountability Isiah hasn't provided any, try to save his ass against the suns goes against the player and frankly doesn't have the eye for talent you say he does. Jefferies, James, Richardson, Crawford, Curry, Frye, Collins all these players are useless.

This team has zero direction and no shot at making the playoffs next year either and Curry will still be out of shape, richardon still won't be able to shoot, marbury will make everyone's life tougher, we will have to hear how aguire is some great assitant coach even though curry still looks like ****, with howard and yao praise what ewing did for them. Isiah has zero class and is a snake and has destroyed the franchise
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Cosmic
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1/15/2008  11:34 AM
Since we went to the playoffs with Marbury and the Layden blue collar work ethic team I'm going to say the two worst moves were:

KVH for TT, Nazr
Deke, Othella, FWill for Crawful and JYD - and then on that day allowing Crawful to take the most shots and do the most ball handling of anyone else on the team thus destroying Marbury's career.


Everything else has just been continued adding **** and stirring but those two moves doomed us right then and there.


This team was in the mold of the Sixers team that went to the finals. You had Iverson (Marbury) and you had dirty hard working role players in hill, snow, mckie, deke, lynch (deke, othella, fwill, doleac)

All we had to do was add more of those types of players and we had a shot at being at the very least an annual playoff team.

Instead Isiah is like a kid putting together his dream NBA Live roster of all offense and-1 chuckers.

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arkrud
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1/15/2008  1:17 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Since we went to the playoffs with Marbury and the Layden blue collar work ethic team I'm going to say the two worst moves were:

KVH for TT, Nazr
Deke, Othella, FWill for Crawful and JYD - and then on that day allowing Crawful to take the most shots and do the most ball handling of anyone else on the team thus destroying Marbury's career.


Everything else has just been continued adding **** and stirring but those two moves doomed us right then and there.


This team was in the mold of the Sixers team that went to the finals. You had Iverson (Marbury) and you had dirty hard working role players in hill, snow, mckie, deke, lynch (deke, othella, fwill, doleac)

All we had to do was add more of those types of players and we had a shot at being at the very least an annual playoff team.

Instead Isiah is like a kid putting together his dream NBA Live roster of all offense and-1 chuckers.


Now we are getting to the point.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
iyamwutiam
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1/15/2008  6:15 PM
Ok- one at a time:
First Larry Brown:
Iverson number one pick- in 1996
Why because they lost MORE games every year from 1991-1995 - when they finished 18-64!! They won 24 games in 96-97 -Iveson's first year with the team. So what does that mean - they had assembled a bunch of talent via the draft BEFORE LB was hired in 97-98.

Here is the roster from the 1996-97 team that LB inherited.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/1997.html

Iverson, Stackhouse, Derrick Coleman, C. weatherspoon, Don Mclean, Scott Williams, Mark Davis, Rex Walters, Lucious Harris, Michael Cage etc. Not an untalented team per se.

Teh following year they won 31 games: got McKie,Ratliffe from Detroit - wrist injury if IIRC- for Stackhouse (who is still a contribuor in this legue)!! He then went ahead and drafted Keith Van Horne. Anway - the point is check this out:
On this side

thesalary cap--- 76 ers salary --- year - record ---- coach
27 36M 97/98 31/51 LB
30 48M 98/99 28/22 LB
34 66M 99/00 49/33
35.5 64M 00/01 56/22 -went to finals lost
42 65 01/02 43/39

Lb resigned in 03-leaving the last year @58 M. So there is obviously a huge correlation between playing the right way and going over the salary cap every year. In fact - it seems if we follow Larry in Philadelphia - the more money you spend - the more you win -upto a certain point.

Let's not forget wll the youth and solid prospects he left the 76ers either- man - they sure are thanking him and Billy King. They potentially had Salmons, Dalembert, Salmons/ Hughes/Nazr mohammed and Bruse Bowen in the line up today
Andrew
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1/15/2008  8:42 PM
iyamwutiam, wasn't Isiah actually the Knicks second choice? Magic was #1, Isiah was #2.
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SupremeCommander
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1/16/2008  12:09 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

Since we went to the playoffs with Marbury and the Layden blue collar work ethic team I'm going to say the two worst moves were:

KVH for TT, Nazr
Deke, Othella, FWill for Crawful and JYD - and then on that day allowing Crawful to take the most shots and do the most ball handling of anyone else on the team thus destroying Marbury's career.


Everything else has just been continued adding **** and stirring but those two moves doomed us right then and there.


This team was in the mold of the Sixers team that went to the finals. You had Iverson (Marbury) and you had dirty hard working role players in hill, snow, mckie, deke, lynch (deke, othella, fwill, doleac)

All we had to do was add more of those types of players and we had a shot at being at the very least an annual playoff team.

Instead Isiah is like a kid putting together his dream NBA Live roster of all offense and-1 chuckers.

I know you hate Craw. I know that Marbs played best with the hard-working nonathletic shooters Layden had in place.

But come on... Craw didn't "destroy" Marbs career. Considering every team Marbs has left has improved after his departure, I'd say its safe to say Kurt Thomas' "always miserable" assessment of Marbury's demeanor is to blame for his string of underachievements. Also, is it merely coincidence the Knicks strung together wins with Marbs' leaving the team?

I don't understand this sudden waive of sympathy posts for a guy that was TERRIBLE. People give Allan Houston crap for his cap charge and how the Knicks couldn't truly compete with him on the payroll. Well, maybe Marbs didn't get a $100 mil in one contract, but according to basketball-reference.com he's collected over $127 mil for his career as of the 2006-07 season.

Why all this sudden sympathy for this bum? Everyone lumps all the blame on Isiah, and he deserves it, but it's not like the uncompromising "always miserable" Marbury earned his keep here.
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TrueBlue
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1/16/2008  12:16 AM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by Cosmic:

Since we went to the playoffs with Marbury and the Layden blue collar work ethic team I'm going to say the two worst moves were:

KVH for TT, Nazr
Deke, Othella, FWill for Crawful and JYD - and then on that day allowing Crawful to take the most shots and do the most ball handling of anyone else on the team thus destroying Marbury's career.


Everything else has just been continued adding **** and stirring but those two moves doomed us right then and there.


This team was in the mold of the Sixers team that went to the finals. You had Iverson (Marbury) and you had dirty hard working role players in hill, snow, mckie, deke, lynch (deke, othella, fwill, doleac)

All we had to do was add more of those types of players and we had a shot at being at the very least an annual playoff team.

Instead Isiah is like a kid putting together his dream NBA Live roster of all offense and-1 chuckers.

I know you hate Craw. I know that Marbs played best with the hard-working nonathletic shooters Layden had in place.

But come on... Craw didn't "destroy" Marbs career. Considering every team Marbs has left has improved after his departure, I'd say its safe to say Kurt Thomas' "always miserable" assessment of Marbury's demeanor is to blame for his string of underachievements. Also, is it merely coincidence the Knicks strung together wins with Marbs' leaving the team?

I don't understand this sudden waive of sympathy posts for a guy that was TERRIBLE. People give Allan Houston crap for his cap charge and how the Knicks couldn't truly compete with him on the payroll. Well, maybe Marbs didn't get a $100 mil in one contract, but according to basketball-reference.com he's collected over $127 mil for his career as of the 2006-07 season.

Why all this sudden sympathy for this bum? Everyone lumps all the blame on Isiah, and he deserves it, but it's not like the uncompromising "always miserable" Marbury earned his keep here.

Camby got no sympathy for being injured neither did Dyess from our NY fan base and when healthy those guys brought it.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
SupremeCommander
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1/16/2008  12:34 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by Cosmic:

Since we went to the playoffs with Marbury and the Layden blue collar work ethic team I'm going to say the two worst moves were:

KVH for TT, Nazr
Deke, Othella, FWill for Crawful and JYD - and then on that day allowing Crawful to take the most shots and do the most ball handling of anyone else on the team thus destroying Marbury's career.


Everything else has just been continued adding **** and stirring but those two moves doomed us right then and there.


This team was in the mold of the Sixers team that went to the finals. You had Iverson (Marbury) and you had dirty hard working role players in hill, snow, mckie, deke, lynch (deke, othella, fwill, doleac)

All we had to do was add more of those types of players and we had a shot at being at the very least an annual playoff team.

Instead Isiah is like a kid putting together his dream NBA Live roster of all offense and-1 chuckers.

I know you hate Craw. I know that Marbs played best with the hard-working nonathletic shooters Layden had in place.

But come on... Craw didn't "destroy" Marbs career. Considering every team Marbs has left has improved after his departure, I'd say its safe to say Kurt Thomas' "always miserable" assessment of Marbury's demeanor is to blame for his string of underachievements. Also, is it merely coincidence the Knicks strung together wins with Marbs' leaving the team?

I don't understand this sudden waive of sympathy posts for a guy that was TERRIBLE. People give Allan Houston crap for his cap charge and how the Knicks couldn't truly compete with him on the payroll. Well, maybe Marbs didn't get a $100 mil in one contract, but according to basketball-reference.com he's collected over $127 mil for his career as of the 2006-07 season.

Why all this sudden sympathy for this bum? Everyone lumps all the blame on Isiah, and he deserves it, but it's not like the uncompromising "always miserable" Marbury earned his keep here.

Camby got no sympathy for being injured neither did Dyess from our NY fan base and when healthy those guys brought it.

Guys like Camby and Houston got the Knicks to the Finals... and they get bashed relentlessly. Dyess had a string of injuries, likely due to our inept doctors. And, you're right, these guys don't catch a break.

I don't care how great Marbs COULD have been, he deserves no sympathy because he was a major contributor in DESTROYING this team. Bottom line: Marbs was at best, a great-stats-on-a-bad-team player.
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TMS
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1/16/2008  1:34 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Camby got no sympathy for being injured neither did Dyess from our NY fan base and when healthy those guys brought it.

McDyess was healthy?
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Cosmic
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1/16/2008  8:01 AM
Posted by SupremeCommander:



I know you hate Craw. I know that Marbs played best with the hard-working nonathletic shooters Layden had in place.

But come on... Craw didn't "destroy" Marbs career. Considering every team Marbs has left has improved after his departure, I'd say its safe to say Kurt Thomas' "always miserable" assessment of Marbury's demeanor is to blame for his string of underachievements. Also, is it merely coincidence the Knicks strung together wins with Marbs' leaving the team?

I don't understand this sudden waive of sympathy posts for a guy that was TERRIBLE. People give Allan Houston crap for his cap charge and how the Knicks couldn't truly compete with him on the payroll. Well, maybe Marbs didn't get a $100 mil in one contract, but according to basketball-reference.com he's collected over $127 mil for his career as of the 2006-07 season.

Why all this sudden sympathy for this bum? Everyone lumps all the blame on Isiah, and he deserves it, but it's not like the uncompromising "always miserable" Marbury earned his keep here.

Yeah, Marbs is a bum now but he wasn't a bum then. The point I'm trying to make is that we had a ball dominant guard happily embracing his role as the face of the franchise and he led us to the playoffs. Enter Crawful and for whatever reason Isiah gave him the keys to the franchise to do as he wished and took Marbury aside and basically told him "turn into eric snow or else".

That was the end of Marbury's Knick career success.

To try to further the point we're now seeing the same with the acquisition of Zach Randolph. Zach has the keys to the franchise front court to do as he pleases and suddenly Eddy Curry has been told to "turn into Sam Dalembert or else" and we're witnessing the end of Eddy Curry's Knick career success.


In the spirit of the thread Isiah's two worst moves, because of the path they put us on, was trading KVH and then acquiring Crawful.



And yes, I hate Crawful's game because just as last night illustrated he's a chucker and if we are to win a game he has to shoot at a clip that's he's damn near allergic to! It's a terrible way to expect success - putting the franchise in the hands of a guy like Crawful.

And, yes, I'm never calling him Crawford again until he raises his FG% to 44% or greater and given the shots he takes and the leeway he gets on the court he damn well SHOULD be shooting 44%.
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TMS
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1/16/2008  2:35 PM
Cosmic, it's curious to me how you can say Marbury's career took a turn for the worst when Jamal got here when Marbury had his best scoring season of his Knicks' career in '04-'05, the year Jamal joined this team. Marbury has no one to blame for his career going downhill but himself, father time & of course, his coaches *sarcasm*

the fact is that during that half a season when Marbury helped this team get to the playoffs, he was playing the most unselfishish style of basketball he's played as a Knick... he averaged an assist more & 2 points less per game than he did the year after when Jamal got here... how do you blame the fact that he chose to revert back to his "Starbury" ways on Jamal?
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