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NBADraft.net(1/1/08): Knicks select Eric Gordon #4
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SupremeCommander
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1/4/2008  11:56 AM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Danilo who??? The only players I think the Knicks should draft are Beasley or Rose. If not trade down and get Hibbert or Buddinger. OJ Mayo is THE EXACT SAME PLAYER AS STEPHON MARBURY. I am tired of players with bad attitudes. Please do not buy into his hype. I heard Beasley has moments were he goes through it emotionally and if this is the case I might not want him either no matter how good he is. I am done taking risk with players.. Let's do it right this time. I would love to build this team around Rose, Lee, and Chandler.

He's the Spanish Boris Diaw... 6'8" guy with some point skills. Some might say that's a good thing, but I'll pass.
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VDesai
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1/4/2008  11:57 AM
By the way, I think Mayo will be a great player if he becomes a 2 guard and sticks with that rather than harboring any expectations of being a PG. If he's a PG he needs to work on that for 3 years in college.
EnySpree
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1/4/2008  12:04 PM

I was unimpressed with that guy Danilo.

Lee, Chandler, Rose? Nice but who's @ center and shooting guard? Curry and Craw? Craw is fine but The Knicks would need Chandler to emerge as a scorer and Curry to lose 30lbs....

edit....sorry man I couldn't even take seeing that pic anymore

[Edited by - enyspree on 04-01-2008 12:09 PM]
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SupremeCommander
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1/4/2008  12:06 PM
Posted by VDesai:

By the way, I think Mayo will be a great player if he becomes a 2 guard and sticks with that rather than harboring any expectations of being a PG. If he's a PG he needs to work on that for 3 years in college.

I agree... that's what's hurting him in the rankings. The thing is he's been playing SG in every game I've seen and has shown a lot of polish at it. He was a PG in high school, but all HS points are expected to do is dribble the ball up court. He's got Rip Hamilton-type polish... not there yet but with more work you could see it. And he's a much more athletic player.

I'm a Chase Budinger fan too, but I'd rather draft Mayo. I know he's had entourage problems before, but I think this year will humble him a bit. I know I compared him to Caron Butler, but maybe the better circumstance to compare him to is Rudy Gay. He was the consensus number one overall in 2006, but he fell because of perceived character flaws--chiefly not orking hard all the time. He obviously gained something to prove, and now look at him. I could see the same thing happening here with Mayo.
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EnySpree
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1/4/2008  12:07 PM
How does our savior compare to reciently drafted/next gen point guards?

Deron, Paul, Felton, Conley, Lowry, Rondo, Marcus Williams, Acie Law, telflair, Louis Williams, Foye, Calderon, TJ Ford, Mardy collins(lmao).....
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SupremeCommander
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1/4/2008  12:17 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

How does our savior compare to reciently drafted/next gen point guards?

Deron, Paul, Felton, Conley, Lowry, Rondo, Marcus Williams, Acie Law, telflair, Louis Williams, Foye, Calderon, TJ Ford, Mardy collins(lmao).....

I'd say that he's somewhere in between Paul and Felton relative to their perception coming into the draft... not relative to what they currently are. Meaning Felton had higher hopes and while many believed Pual was going to be good, no one thought he would have THIS type of season.

Paul was the better prospect and player. Felton was a great fit at UNC because of his speed and how up tempo that UNC offense is. If Rose was playing at UNC, there'd be no debate about who was going number one. The thing about Rose is that it's clear he has to play in a certain style offense, which is not being played at Memphis. I could see hiim panning out to be a much more dynamic Jose Calderon, in that he has more wrinkles to his game.
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VDesai
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1/4/2008  12:39 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

How does our savior compare to reciently drafted/next gen point guards?

Deron, Paul, Felton, Conley, Lowry, Rondo, Marcus Williams, Acie Law, telflair, Louis Williams, Foye, Calderon, TJ Ford, Mardy collins(lmao).....

Like I said before, the thing that sticks out with the best of that lot- Deron, Paul, Felton is experience. All were great talents, but above all they proved they could run winning programs unselfishly and go deep in the tourney.
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1/4/2008  12:41 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by EnySpree:

How does our savior compare to reciently drafted/next gen point guards?

Deron, Paul, Felton, Conley, Lowry, Rondo, Marcus Williams, Acie Law, telflair, Louis Williams, Foye, Calderon, TJ Ford, Mardy collins(lmao).....

Like I said before, the thing that sticks out with the best of that lot- Deron, Paul, Felton is experience. All were great talents, but above all they proved they could run winning programs unselfishly and go deep in the tourney.

Good point Des. We'll see if Derrick Rose has that ability that those 3 guys displayed. Memphis is a VERY good team and they should make quite a run in the tourney and Rose is going to be a big part of it. But.. he has to do it.
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1/4/2008  12:44 PM
the most important part is that we keep Isiah as coach and we don't make any trades.

that gives us the best odds for those balls to bounce our way
Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
SupremeCommander
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1/4/2008  1:01 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by EnySpree:

How does our savior compare to reciently drafted/next gen point guards?

Deron, Paul, Felton, Conley, Lowry, Rondo, Marcus Williams, Acie Law, telflair, Louis Williams, Foye, Calderon, TJ Ford, Mardy collins(lmao).....

Like I said before, the thing that sticks out with the best of that lot- Deron, Paul, Felton is experience. All were great talents, but above all they proved they could run winning programs unselfishly and go deep in the tourney.

Good point Des. We'll see if Derrick Rose has that ability that those 3 guys displayed. Memphis is a VERY good team and they should make quite a run in the tourney and Rose is going to be a big part of it. But.. he has to do it.

Kind of flawed IMO. Williams had one of the best outside shooting team in the NCAA with the Illini in 2005. Felton had May and McCants with Marvin Williams coming off the bench. They both got to the finals.

Paul didn't go that far in the tournament. His team got knocked out by the Kevin Pittsnoggle led West Virginia team. Yes, you read that correctly. He had a better performance in 2004 when he made it tot he Sweet 16, but he got torched by Jameer Nelson and got there in part Manhattan College upset Florida in the second round. I wouldn't necessarily call Paul's NCAA Tournament career a wild success.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 01-04-2008 1:02 PM]
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VDesai
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1/4/2008  1:02 PM
Another name to keep an eye out on is DeVon Hardin. He may not be a great offensive center, but he can be a beast defensively and on the glass. He has some eyepopping athletic ability- I think he's the kind of player that will rocket up boards after the workouts.
VDesai
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1/4/2008  1:05 PM
Chris Paul played 3 yrs on a talented squad that he led to the no.1 ranking. The point is he got a chance to get himself seasoned, really learn how to play the PG position and lead a squad of talented players to a terrific record.

These guys who don't have a ton of experience often go to the NBA without truly learning how to play the PG position the right way, b/c most of them coming up through the high school ranks have been asked to score or be the man and don't have the mentality to take a backseat and run the offense.
SupremeCommander
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1/4/2008  1:09 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Another name to keep an eye out on is DeVon Hardin. He may not be a great offensive center, but he can be a beast defensively and on the glass. He has some eyepopping athletic ability- I think he's the kind of player that will rocket up boards after the workouts.

Can you go more in depth? Has he added more polish? From what I remember he had an NBA body but not NBA skill... but I don't remember if I even watched him play last season, and didn't catch him this season yet.
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SupremeCommander
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1/4/2008  1:11 PM
Chris Paul played two years at Wake.
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dodger78
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1/4/2008  1:15 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by EnySpree:

How does our savior compare to reciently drafted/next gen point guards?

Deron, Paul, Felton, Conley, Lowry, Rondo, Marcus Williams, Acie Law, telflair, Louis Williams, Foye, Calderon, TJ Ford, Mardy collins(lmao).....

Like I said before, the thing that sticks out with the best of that lot- Deron, Paul, Felton is experience. All were great talents, but above all they proved they could run winning programs unselfishly and go deep in the tourney.

Good point Des. We'll see if Derrick Rose has that ability that those 3 guys displayed. Memphis is a VERY good team and they should make quite a run in the tourney and Rose is going to be a big part of it. But.. he has to do it.

Kind of flawed IMO. Williams had one of the best outside shooting team in the NCAA with the Illini in 2005. Felton had May and McCants with Marvin Williams coming off the bench. They both got to the finals.

Paul didn't go that far in the tournament. His team got knocked out by the Kevin Pittsnoggle led West Virginia team. Yes, you read that correctly. He had a better performance in 2004 when he made it tot he Sweet 16, but he got torched by Jameer Nelson and got there in part Manhattan College upset Florida in the second round. I wouldn't necessarily call Paul's NCAA Tournament career a wild success.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 01-04-2008 1:02 PM]

Hey seriously now, Kevin Pittsnoggle was killer that year!!!! Swishing 3pointers at will and stuff!!!!
I loved watching that West Virginia team!!!!
SupremeCommander
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1/4/2008  1:20 PM
Posted by dodger78:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by EnySpree:

How does our savior compare to reciently drafted/next gen point guards?

Deron, Paul, Felton, Conley, Lowry, Rondo, Marcus Williams, Acie Law, telflair, Louis Williams, Foye, Calderon, TJ Ford, Mardy collins(lmao).....

Like I said before, the thing that sticks out with the best of that lot- Deron, Paul, Felton is experience. All were great talents, but above all they proved they could run winning programs unselfishly and go deep in the tourney.

Good point Des. We'll see if Derrick Rose has that ability that those 3 guys displayed. Memphis is a VERY good team and they should make quite a run in the tourney and Rose is going to be a big part of it. But.. he has to do it.

Kind of flawed IMO. Williams had one of the best outside shooting team in the NCAA with the Illini in 2005. Felton had May and McCants with Marvin Williams coming off the bench. They both got to the finals.

Paul didn't go that far in the tournament. His team got knocked out by the Kevin Pittsnoggle led West Virginia team. Yes, you read that correctly. He had a better performance in 2004 when he made it tot he Sweet 16, but he got torched by Jameer Nelson and got there in part Manhattan College upset Florida in the second round. I wouldn't necessarily call Paul's NCAA Tournament career a wild success.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 01-04-2008 1:02 PM]

Hey seriously now, Kevin Pittsnoggle was killer that year!!!! Swishing 3pointers at will and stuff!!!!
I loved watching that West Virginia team!!!!



I'm glad someone remembers that team!!! Seriously, that Wake v. WVU game was the best game of the tournament--until Deron Williams led a furious comeback against Arizona and Channing Frye. What a great tournament that one was!
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VDesai
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1/4/2008  1:25 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by VDesai:

Another name to keep an eye out on is DeVon Hardin. He may not be a great offensive center, but he can be a beast defensively and on the glass. He has some eyepopping athletic ability- I think he's the kind of player that will rocket up boards after the workouts.

Can you go more in depth? Has he added more polish? From what I remember he had an NBA body but not NBA skill... but I don't remember if I even watched him play last season, and didn't catch him this season yet.

He has a baby hook. Early in the season he was really pounding the glass. Haven't seen him recently, but that kind of size/athleticism usually gets you drafted very high. He should be able to immediately step in and make an impact on the boards. Then again he could be Stephen Hunter...

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1/4/2008  1:32 PM
Prospects I think we should target. Of course Rose & Beasley being 1 & 1a. But if we don't get either there are some players that bring the right intangibles that could help change the culture of the team if we brought in enough of them.

#1 Roy Hibbert.
NBA Comparison: Joel Przybilla
Strengths: Center with great size and strength ... Has soft hands, excellent touch on his shot ... Strong rebounder ... Very good free throw shooter, (around 80%) which is especially important for a center ... Post moves are developing well ... Smart player, has a good understanding of his role and what to do on the court ... Strong character guy ... Hard worker, has shown great improvement in his skill level, body and conditioning in his time at Georgetown ... Has transformed himself into a legitimate prospect ... More athletic than he appears ... His quickness in decision making has improved ... Body strength and agility seems to still be developing, his upside is very intriguing considering how much he improved in the past year ... Good vision and passing ability ... Calm demeanor, never gets out of control or loses his cool ... Has the size to block shots inside without jumping ...

Weaknesses: Limited athletically: Lacks quickness, speed in the open floor, and explosiveness ... Has trouble against big and athletic centers, must work on ball fakes and becoming less predictable offensively ... Runs very stiff, slow transitioning from half to full court ... Has decent shot blocking skills due to his size, but lacks great quickness and reflexes vertically ...

#2 Darren Collison 46fg% 76ft% 45 3pt%
NBA Comparison: Kevin Johnson
Strengths: Made a name for himself as a freshman as a lock down defender, with his tremendous reflexes, long arms and quick feet: Collison has the ability to make life hell for opposing point guards trying to bring the ball up the court … An absolute jet, has an extra gear which allows him to blow by virtually any college PG at will … His hand and foot speed put him in elite company … Mentally tough. Has a great motor, competes hard and doesn’t back down ... He steps his level of intensity up in important situations … Has really improved as a floor general and shows excellent vision and passing along with great ball handling ability … A smart decision maker who knows when to pull the ball out and when to attack the glass … Rarely makes bad judgments passing the ball … He’s just 6’ feet (barefoot) but has extremely long arms allowing him to play bigger than his actual size … His outside shooting has shown excellent improvement, and he has also developed an effective mid-range tear drop that he utilizes over shot blockers … His body control is tremendous … A real terror as an on ball defender, quick to pounce on any mistake made by opposing guards … If he gets a step on opponents in the open court, it’s usually too late to catch up to foul him …

Weaknesses: Still learning the ropes in his first full season as a college starting point guard … Lacks experience in big game situations leading a team, but appears primed to step into Farmar’s shoes and effectively lead the team as a sophomore … Has the makings of a star but will likely defer to more experienced players such as Mbah a Moute, Afflalo and Shipp with regard to go-to scoring until his time comes … Eventually will need to learn to take over in crunch time and become more selfish … He lacks great body strength. Could stand to bulk up some, at his current weight he is not able to absorb contact inside as well as bigger/stronger guards … He’s got solid leaping ability, but his greatest physical attribute is quickness … Can be posted up by taller and stronger guards … His speed gives him a huge advantage in the open court, must continue to improve in the half court set … Must improve on his 1:1 A/TO ratio as a freshman ...

#3 DJ Augustin 48fg% 80ft% 42 3pt%
NBA Comparison: Jameer Nelson/Travis Best
Strengths: A true point guard who looks to set up teammates first, a big reason why he averaged 6.7 apg his freshman campaign, good for fourth in the nation; also better than fellow freshman and forth overall selection Mike Conley Jr., who ranked fifth … Had an assist to turnover ratio of 2.03, pretty impressive for a freshman leading an extremely young team … Also averaged 14.4 ppg on 45% shooting and 44% from beyond the arc, proving that he is also capable of shooting when defenses slack off on him … Also a very good free throw shooter at 84% ... Very quick with the ball, also a good ball handler, evidenced by his 3.3 TO per game ... A leader. Very head strong, confident player, plays with a swagger to his game which is impressive in such a young player at such a demanding position.

Weaknesses: Very few under 6' point guards are able to make it in the NBA, and those that do are normally freakish athlete types which Augustin is not ... At 5’11”, he's on the short side for the NBA … Seems to either shoot 3 pointers or drive to the basket all the time, will need to develop a mid range “stop and pop” game for the pros … Must bulk up to handle the physicality of the NBA … Decent defender, but nothing to write home about, his lateral speed is just average, primarily an offensive player.

#4 Bryce Taylor 45fg% 80ft% 41 3pt %
NBA Comparison: Brandon Roy/Willie Green
Strengths: 2-guard with the skills and feel of a coaches son: his father Brian Taylor had a 10 year career in the NBA and coached Bryce from a young age ... An excellent athlete with great foot speed and leaping ability ... Has a well rounded offensive game with the ability to knock down shots from the perimeter, pull up off the dribble, and use his excellent ball handling to get by his man to the rim ... Displays good vision and plays unselfishly, a team player ... Smooth wing who does a good job of taking what the defense gives him and has a solid midrange game... Has shown the ability to step up in big games: Shot 11-11 with 7-7 from 3 for 32 points in the Pac-ten championship game against USC ... Shot 42% from 3 in his junior year ... Can fill in at the point guard position when needed with adequate ball protection ... Attacks the rim with aggressiveness and the body strength to finish at the rim ... Quality free throw shooter (82%) ...

Weaknesses: Undersized for the 2-guard position at a shade below 6-5, although his quickness and athleticism helps him to compensate ... Must assume a larger role in his senior year with Oregon's leader from last year Aaron Brooks off to the NBA ... Struggled for much of his first two seasons, but broke out with an excellent junior year ... Lack of size could give him some trouble defensively on the next level, although he shows a disciplined approach to playing that end of the floor ...

#5 Josh Shipp 49fg% 88ft% 41 3pt%
NBA Comparison: Ricky Pierce
Strengths: Underrated off guard with excellent versatility and feel for the game … Scores at will and makes the offensive end of the floor look effortless … Can score in a variety of ways and has good shooting fundamentals … Creates offense very well for himself or others … High intangibles type player … Always seems a step ahead of the opposition … Played point guard in high school and retains PG abilities, both ball handling and passing … Aggressive player who gives solid effort on both ends of the floor … Uses his strength well to muscle opposing guards … Can play the 1-3 positions on the college level … Very good decision maker, never forces plays, takes what the defense gives him …

Weaknesses: Missed virtually all of last season due to injury … Bulked up a bit too much as a freshman and it appeared to hinder his mobility … Lacks a tremendous first step off the dribble … Foot speed and overall athleticism don’t stand out but are solid …

#6 Joey Dorsey
NBA Comparison: Bo Outlaw
Strengths: A physical specimen type of interior force … Very aggressive, strong and explosive … Does all the dirty work, cleaning the boards and defending … Simply overpowers a lot of players on the college level with brute strength and athleticism … A tremendous rebounder, averaging more rebounds than points per game (9.6 rpg as a junior), and really hits the offensive glass hard where he averages nearly as many offensive rebounds as on the defensive end … Runs the floor well and plays at a high intensity level … An improving shot blocker (2.2 bpg) who also alters opponents shots … His great length and leaping ability make him a load for opponents to contend with on both ends of the floor … Has shown some improvement in his skill level, though he’ll likely never be much of an offensive player … Capable of some rim rattling dunks and attacks the rim with ferocity …

Weaknesses: Lacks much of an offensive game … His post skills and shooting touch remain very limited … Doesn’t have a consistent shot and scores mostly on garbage baskets … He’s older than the average senior by 2+ years … An absolutely abysmal free throw shooter at 46% which is actually an improvement from his first two seasons. Needs to further raise this to not be an end of game liability ... Also needs to cut down on turnovers (1.7) … Probably best suited to play center and lacks ideal center height ...

#7 Richard Roby 48fg% 80ft% 33 3pt %
NBA Comparison: Allan Houston
Strengths: One of the top shooters in the college game ... Prototypical 2-guard for the NBA ... Mechanics and release on his shot are tremendous ... Has shown the ability to take over and win games with his shooting and playmaking ability ... Clutch player who steps up and shows no conscience shooting the ball when the game is on the line ... Has great genes for the game as he is K-Mart's half brother and the athleticism did not miss him ... Extremely long and fluid athlete with a smooth offensive game ... Good leaping ability which will only get better as his body matures ... He is adept at creating shots for himself off the dribble ... His mid range game is very advanced ... Extremely long arms give him added length ... Picks up a lot of steals with great speed and anticipation ... Possesses an excellent feel for the game, especially offensively ... Has worked hard on cutting down turnovers as his improved A/TO ratio attests ... Has excellent upside ...

Weaknesses: Must show the passion and hunger to play up to his abilities every time out ... The game comes so easily to him that he can get by on natural ability so staying focused and working hard to improve is key for him ... Still needs to become stronger physically ... Added strength will give him more ability to take the ball inside and finish ... Developed a bit of a soft rap from scouts after starting his sophomore season slow, but has responded well ... Must show the ability to play well against top level teams and players ... Free throw shooting should be better for such a great shooter (roughly 70%), needs to put in work to improve upon it ...
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VDesai
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1/4/2008  1:35 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Chris Paul played two years at Wake.

My bad you are right. Still I was consistently impressed at how he got his teammates involved- letting a guy like Eric Williams beast in some games. He probably could've come in there and scored 25 ppg but he helped guys like Williams and Justin Gray be pretty effective scorers. That balance made a team that maybe wasn't as talented as a lot of the other squads in the ACC into a powerhouse.

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1/4/2008  1:59 PM
Who cares? You know we're trading Lee and our unprotected pick for Ron Artest anyway!
NBADraft.net(1/1/08): Knicks select Eric Gordon #4

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