Posted by kam77:

Cash-

Do you feel similarly about Crawford. I ask because i think Crawford and Zach can develop a similar chemistry that Craw has with Eddy. Even though we're losing all these games, i'm much happier knowing Crawford is running the point.

I'd like to see this become a Craw/Zach team for the rest of the year.

Posted by Cash:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cash:

Posted by TrueBlue:

We knew he was 20/10 before he got here and most considered him a Top 10pf we're only concerned with W's not stats. Then to top it off we take on almost $70mil in additional salary over the course of his contract.

Another thread that belongs in the Recycle Bin.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-13-2007 9:54 PM]

We sucked before he got here. He did not complement other players. However when those other players suck it does not matter if he complements them. They needed to go anyway.

At least now we have a low post player who loves to play the game who can be part of a solution.

So are you saying since Zach doesn't complement anybody on this team really, factoring all of the moves I SAY UGH has made, we can now hang our hat on a ball hogging/black hole 46%fg power forward who doesn't make his teamates better and start rebuilding around him which suggest gutting the rest of the team?

Zach doesn't complement Curry. Period and end of story. Isiah has made a ton of poor moves but that doesn't mean Zach couldn't be effective with some of our other players. And, I don't think anyone wants to hang our hats on Zach, we still suck. But, he can be part of something. And btw, when a pf takes a lot of outside shots, his fg% is going to be low. And, since Zach can pass out of double teams, he can make his teamates better.

Saying the word "Can" when referring to the players on this team is synonymous with the word "If". Like Curry "Can" block shots and rebound or "If" Curry blocked shots and rebounded he'd be an All-Star. I don't reason in Wizard Of Oz Land, I reason on the planet we call earth and Zach doesn't pass 80-90% of the time. He's averaging almost 35min/gm and producing 1.7ast so far. Matter of fact every since he's solidified himself as a starter in this league the 1.7ast is a career low avg. "Can" he improve on that well once again we're back to "If" as of now he ain't din too much of it if any at all.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cash:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cash:

Posted by TrueBlue:

We knew he was 20/10 before he got here and most considered him a Top 10pf we're only concerned with W's not stats. Then to top it off we take on almost $70mil in additional salary over the course of his contract.

Another thread that belongs in the Recycle Bin.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-13-2007 9:54 PM]

We sucked before he got here. He did not complement other players. However when those other players suck it does not matter if he complements them. They needed to go anyway.

At least now we have a low post player who loves to play the game who can be part of a solution.

So are you saying since Zach doesn't complement anybody on this team really, factoring all of the moves I SAY UGH has made, we can now hang our hat on a ball hogging/black hole 46%fg power forward who doesn't make his teamates better and start rebuilding around him which suggest gutting the rest of the team?

Zach doesn't complement Curry. Period and end of story. Isiah has made a ton of poor moves but that doesn't mean Zach couldn't be effective with some of our other players. And, I don't think anyone wants to hang our hats on Zach, we still suck. But, he can be part of something. And btw, when a pf takes a lot of outside shots, his fg% is going to be low. And, since Zach can pass out of double teams, he can make his teamates better.

Saying the word "Can" when referring to the players on this team is synonymous with the word "If". Like Curry "Can" block shots and rebound or "If" Curry blocked shots and rebounded he'd be an All-Star. I don't reason in Wizard Of Oz Land, I reason on the planet we call earth and Zach doesn't pass 80-90% of the time. He's averaging almost 35min/gm and producing 1.7ast so far. Matter of fact every since he's solidified himself as a starter in this league the 1.7ast is a career low avg. "Can" he improve on that well once again we're back to "If" as of now he ain't din too much of it if any at all.

The problem with your reasoning is that Curry cannot block shots at a high level and he cannot rebound on a high level. People talk about potential in terms of size and such. However, Curry's problem is not just that he does not try. He is very mentally slow. He does not have the reaction time to figure out where the rebound is going to go or to figure out how to react to a guy coming into the lane. Curry simply cannot rebound or pass out of a double team efficiently. Zach is different. He is just selfish. In the right situation Zach "can" and is "able to" pass out of double teams. Since Zach has been here he has posted games of assists of 5 or more. Curry has not done that in his career, nor will he ever be able to do that.

Zach can and Curry "cannot"

Posted by Cash:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cash:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Cash:

Posted by TrueBlue:

We knew he was 20/10 before he got here and most considered him a Top 10pf we're only concerned with W's not stats. Then to top it off we take on almost $70mil in additional salary over the course of his contract.

Another thread that belongs in the Recycle Bin.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-13-2007 9:54 PM]

We sucked before he got here. He did not complement other players. However when those other players suck it does not matter if he complements them. They needed to go anyway.

At least now we have a low post player who loves to play the game who can be part of a solution.

So are you saying since Zach doesn't complement anybody on this team really, factoring all of the moves I SAY UGH has made, we can now hang our hat on a ball hogging/black hole 46%fg power forward who doesn't make his teamates better and start rebuilding around him which suggest gutting the rest of the team?

Zach doesn't complement Curry. Period and end of story. Isiah has made a ton of poor moves but that doesn't mean Zach couldn't be effective with some of our other players. And, I don't think anyone wants to hang our hats on Zach, we still suck. But, he can be part of something. And btw, when a pf takes a lot of outside shots, his fg% is going to be low. And, since Zach can pass out of double teams, he can make his teamates better.

Saying the word "Can" when referring to the players on this team is synonymous with the word "If". Like Curry "Can" block shots and rebound or "If" Curry blocked shots and rebounded he'd be an All-Star. I don't reason in Wizard Of Oz Land, I reason on the planet we call earth and Zach doesn't pass 80-90% of the time. He's averaging almost 35min/gm and producing 1.7ast so far. Matter of fact every since he's solidified himself as a starter in this league the 1.7ast is a career low avg. "Can" he improve on that well once again we're back to "If" as of now he ain't din too much of it if any at all.

The problem with your reasoning is that Curry cannot block shots at a high level and he cannot rebound on a high level. People talk about potential in terms of size and such. However, Curry's problem is not just that he does not try. He is very mentally slow. He does not have the reaction time to figure out where the rebound is going to go or to figure out how to react to a guy coming into the lane. Curry simply cannot rebound or pass out of a double team efficiently. Zach is different. He is just selfish. In the right situation Zach "can" and is "able to" pass out of double teams. Since Zach has been here he has posted games of assists of 5 or more. Curry has not done that in his career, nor will he ever be able to do that.

Zach can and Curry "cannot"

"If" Curry got in shape which would be the first sign of caring and then applied effort every night he could but he doesn't care enough. Zach doesn't care enough to pass. Marbury doesn't care enough to be a leader. Jamal doesn't care enough to have better shot selection. They're all capable but some of us see fit and allow an exit on their shortcomings.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Cash:

Posted by kam77:

Posted by islesfan:

Zach is a stat whore who has never passed out of a double team.

Last game, 1 minute and change to go in the 3rd quarter. Crawford fed Zach in the low post. The double came quick so Zack bounced it back out to Craw at the arc who immediately flicked it back down to Zach as the double had dissipated. Zach makes the pretty hoop and points to Craw as he runs back up the court.

I'm with Cash.

That is exactly the point. Zach can pass it out intelligently. And when he does sometimes he gets it back and it benefits him. He is not a goldmine on the spot, but we can work with this guy, especially if he is surrounded by better players. He likes to play the game, and I would bet that he likes to win.

Zach is not the kind of guy you build around. He's like Weed Wallace. A complementary player that can go off, in a good way, every now and then. But he can also go off in a bad way. On a bad team like this, you'll never get the best from him. Put him on the Bulls or Nets and I think he can really help them. I suggested that before he was traded to the Knicks, which I thought was a terrible fit.

Posted by Cash:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

I see what your saying Cash. You believe Randolph is a building block so it doesn't matter if he fits. Because down the line we can get rid of everyone and have Randolph as our building block. I just don't agree.

Do you really believe that the Knicks can win with Zach Randolph as our best frontcourt player? Even though his track record when it comes to wins and losses are 41, 21, 27, 32, & 6? Randolph needs Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd who can create easy shots for him and control his touches. Plus he needs a strong minded coach to keep him in check. Then he needs a backup PF that plays good man to man defense as well as a strong defensive help defender/shotblocker(camby) stud at center. As well as a good 2 way SF & SG. If thats not the plan then he is going to fail. So do you really beleive that we are going to truly build all that around Randolph? Because I don't see it happening.

I think you can win a bunch of different ways. I feel like Zach is dynamic enough in the sense that he can rebound at a very high level, he can score in the post and he can pass out of the post, so that he is a player that you can build with.

Did I mention how he loves to play the game of basketball. I am not saying he is a leader, however, I think he is a very valuable player that can be part of the solution.

He can pass out of the post, but he doesn't do it often enough or at a high level. Which leads to the fact that we would need a strong coach that would keep him in check. I would regulate him to having shots created for him by a stong PG. The way Nash creates for Stoud, Deron Williams creates for Boozer. But then again with a strong PG like Nash or Deron. Lee & Curry frontcourt would have probably been just as effect and as well as cheaper.

Also Sheed was willing to accept his role on Detroit. He didn't consider himself the star player, or demand his touches. Randolph's failure his last season on Portland was his failure to accept the role that they wanted him to play. Knowing Randolphs personality, do you really believe that he would be willing to accept a role which would limit some of his touches? And if he wasn't getting the ball all the time in the post do you believe he would be happy with that role and look to excell in that role?

Posted by Cash:

Posted by TMS:

Cash, if the options are to stink with the players you already have or to stink by spending a boatload of cash & future cap to acquire a player that doesn't help the team improve, the choice should logically be the former & save yourself the money... what fun is watching a stat whore collect his stats while the team remains mired in suckage? give me a team full of Renaldo Balkmans & Mardy Collinses than a team full of Stephon Marbury's & Zach Randolphs anyday... at least w/the former i'm not sacrificing our longterm future to suck the way we're doing now.

You are thinking about now, and I am thinking about later. Zach is young and has the capacity to improve, exactly what you want when you are trying to improve your team.

actually, i'm the one thinking about later while ur thinking about now... i don't gain any satisfaction watching guys put up #'s while the team languishes in mediocrity... unless we make moves to address the team balance, acquire a real franchise level talent, or at least clear up longterm cap flexibility so we have some sort of a chance to acquire one someday, what's the point?