[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

How come when some teams click right away and the Knicks still can't get it together?
Author Thread
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
12/5/2007  4:12 PM
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by tkf:

The difference is the core players of those teams..

Dwight: A true franchise talent, desire, hard worker, great rebounder, shot blocker and a true thirst to want to be great


the jazz: williams and boozer are blue chip players, they know how to play the game..

Suns: amare, nash and marion.. 3 damn good, ball players who excell in various facets of the game, they are not just good, they are very damn good...

Knicks have a flawed approach, a flawed team, flawed players, the few good players they have don't have those one or two all around good players who can lead them and do all the other things that are missing...

Put it this way.. we are building around curry and crawford... that where the problem starts.. add in zach and marbury and the problem is compounded.. having lee, balkman and other play hard, is just not enough to keep this sinking ship afloat....

IF THE KNICKS HAD STEVE NASH OR JASON KIDD AS THEIR PG THERE WOULD BE NO CHEMISTRY ISSUES WITH THIS SQUAD!

If you will put new engine from BMW 7 series into my old Buick I will be the KING OF THE ROAD!!!!

LOL!!!
('');
Is there anyone here that really doubts that if we had a real 2 way leader PG (like Nash or Kidd) that the Knicks would then transform overnight into a team with a clue?

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-05-2007 3:00 PM]

I doubt... And I double-doubt we can get any of this.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
AUTOADVERT
colorfl1
Posts: 20781
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/6/2004
Member: #731
Canada
12/5/2007  4:27 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by tkf:

The difference is the core players of those teams..

Dwight: A true franchise talent, desire, hard worker, great rebounder, shot blocker and a true thirst to want to be great


the jazz: williams and boozer are blue chip players, they know how to play the game..

Suns: amare, nash and marion.. 3 damn good, ball players who excell in various facets of the game, they are not just good, they are very damn good...

Knicks have a flawed approach, a flawed team, flawed players, the few good players they have don't have those one or two all around good players who can lead them and do all the other things that are missing...

Put it this way.. we are building around curry and crawford... that where the problem starts.. add in zach and marbury and the problem is compounded.. having lee, balkman and other play hard, is just not enough to keep this sinking ship afloat....

IF THE KNICKS HAD STEVE NASH OR JASON KIDD AS THEIR PG THERE WOULD BE NO CHEMISTRY ISSUES WITH THIS SQUAD!

If you will put new engine from BMW 7 series into my old Buick I will be the KING OF THE ROAD!!!!

LOL!!!
('');
Is there anyone here that really doubts that if we had a real 2 way leader PG (like Nash or Kidd) that the Knicks would then transform overnight into a team with a clue?

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-05-2007 3:00 PM]

I doubt... And I double-doubt we can get any of this.

Its reasonable to believe that we can next year send Marbury's expiring $20,000,000 contract, Lee and a pick can land a high caliber 2-way pg from a team that is trying to rebuild and get under the cap .
nyk4ever
Posts: 41014
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
12/5/2007  4:30 PM
Posted by colorfl1:


Its reasonable to believe that we can next year send Marbury's expiring $20,000,000 contract, Lee and a pick can land a high caliber 2-way pg from a team that is trying to rebuild and get under the cap .

I don't want anymore castoffs. If a team is trying to rebuild then trading away a PG who makes others better and plays defense just isn't going to happen. The guy teams would be trying to trade is a PG who wants to score and we don't need that. Let's let Marburys contract expire and draft a PG who will distribute, hit the open shot, play defense and lead his teammates. You aren't getting those qualities in a trade.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
93BUICK
Posts: 22281
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 10/6/2006
Member: #1175
USA
12/5/2007  5:18 PM
If you drive a Buick you're already King of the road

If you will put new engine from BMW 7 series into my old Buick I will be the KING OF THE ROAD!!!!

If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
Panos
Posts: 30716
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2004
Member: #520
12/5/2007  5:22 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by colorfl1:


Its reasonable to believe that we can next year send Marbury's expiring $20,000,000 contract, Lee and a pick can land a high caliber 2-way pg from a team that is trying to rebuild and get under the cap .

I don't want anymore castoffs. If a team is trying to rebuild then trading away a PG who makes others better and plays defense just isn't going to happen. The guy teams would be trying to trade is a PG who wants to score and we don't need that. Let's let Marburys contract expire and draft a PG who will distribute, hit the open shot, play defense and lead his teammates. You aren't getting those qualities in a trade.


I'm with you on this one. Time to build thru the draft. Not like we have far to tank.
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
12/5/2007  5:37 PM
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by tkf:

The difference is the core players of those teams..

Dwight: A true franchise talent, desire, hard worker, great rebounder, shot blocker and a true thirst to want to be great


the jazz: williams and boozer are blue chip players, they know how to play the game..

Suns: amare, nash and marion.. 3 damn good, ball players who excell in various facets of the game, they are not just good, they are very damn good...

Knicks have a flawed approach, a flawed team, flawed players, the few good players they have don't have those one or two all around good players who can lead them and do all the other things that are missing...

Put it this way.. we are building around curry and crawford... that where the problem starts.. add in zach and marbury and the problem is compounded.. having lee, balkman and other play hard, is just not enough to keep this sinking ship afloat....

IF THE KNICKS HAD STEVE NASH OR JASON KIDD AS THEIR PG THERE WOULD BE NO CHEMISTRY ISSUES WITH THIS SQUAD!

If you will put new engine from BMW 7 series into my old Buick I will be the KING OF THE ROAD!!!!

LOL!!!
('');
Is there anyone here that really doubts that if we had a real 2 way leader PG (like Nash or Kidd) that the Knicks would then transform overnight into a team with a clue?

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 12-05-2007 3:00 PM]

I doubt... And I double-doubt we can get any of this.

Its reasonable to believe that we can next year send Marbury's expiring $20,000,000 contract, Lee and a pick can land a high caliber 2-way pg from a team that is trying to rebuild and get under the cap .

The same could have been said about McDyess' contract, KT and 2 first rd picks when they traded for Marbury. How did that work out?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
EnySpree
Posts: 44925
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

12/5/2007  5:51 PM
Im in a catch 22 cuz I actually believe in some of these players. I wish Isiah would just move around some guys and try to pick up guys that could make this situation work. To me it isn't that hard..........since isiah won't do it he has to be fired, but if he is fired some of the guys I believe in WILL get traded.

I just want something done now......isiah should make a roster move now before the new year comes.....then make another clean up move at the deadline.......

Im not ready to give up on the season but I wanna see holes filled.....like ****in now!
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
BigSm00th
Posts: 24504
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2001
Member: #178
USA
12/5/2007  6:12 PM
THE SHIP BE SINKING ENY!!!

its a combination of everything...coaches, players, owners, management, overall team mentality. everything but the fans and the garden need to change
#Knickstaps
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
12/5/2007  6:44 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Im in a catch 22 cuz I actually believe in some of these players. I wish Isiah would just move around some guys and try to pick up guys that could make this situation work. To me it isn't that hard..........since isiah won't do it he has to be fired, but if he is fired some of the guys I believe in WILL get traded.

I just want something done now......isiah should make a roster move now before the new year comes.....then make another clean up move at the deadline.......

Im not ready to give up on the season but I wanna see holes filled.....like ****in now!

I don't think this squad is one or two players/trades away from being fixed- not deals that are likely to happen in reality.

fire isiah.
fairly evaluate the talent.
trade/exile/buy out players who don't fit.
add picks & tank.
build a championship caliber squad the way pretty much every other squad has done it- adding superstar talent through the draft
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/5/2007  6:50 PM
after the Zach trade which was a fabulous trade.......what was the follow up? David Lee should have been shipped for a massive upgrade. David lee's value was at a retarded high after his awesome season. Once isiah made the decision to get zach, david lee was immediately useless to the Knicks.

you know i was saying the exact same stuff when Isiah traded for Steve Francis... anyone would figure that the logical next step would be to trade Marbury or at least figure that Francis would be moving to another team for a player that would complement the players we already had... instead he ends up being traded for Zach, & now we're left in the same exact position wondering when guys like David Lee will be traded to make sense of it all... until of course the next nonsensical move is made to acquire a player that replicates what we already have & we're left wondering when a trade is made to make sense of that one... it's a vicious ongoing cycle.

when we continue to acquire players that have no idea how to succeed playing team oriented style basketball, it's really not that hard to figure out why other teams can & we can't. think about who the big name acquisitions have been over Isiah's tenure.

Stephon Marbury = me first, stat accumulator that plays D only when he feels like it
Steve Francis = me first, stat accumulator that plays no D
Eddy Curry = reputation for being lazy & not living up to his potential
Zach Randolph = stat accumulator that plays no D
Jamal Crawford = reputation for taking bad shots & plays no D

is it any wonder why this team can't get it together when they keep acquiring players like this? it's not a secret i supported the Marbury, Curry & Crawford trades cuz i thought they at least addressed needs on this team at the time they were made, but when your GM continues to bring in players that don't complement these guys, u pretty much know it's not going to work until the entire philosophy & approach to roster management changes & someone else takes over who actually has a plan & isn't just throwing whatever talent he can get his hands on up against the wall to see if it sticks.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
OldFan
Posts: 21456
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2003
Member: #446
12/5/2007  7:23 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

If you look around the past few years you will notice that all you need is 2 or 3 great players to put yourself in the mix. But instead of going for two elite players and filling in the blanks, we instead go for 10 above average ones. This in itself wouldn't be all that bad if some of those players had actually won before.

Or were actually above average.

Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
12/6/2007  10:00 AM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by Bippity10:

If you look around the past few years you will notice that all you need is 2 or 3 great players to put yourself in the mix. But instead of going for two elite players and filling in the blanks, we instead go for 10 above average ones. This in itself wouldn't be all that bad if some of those players had actually won before.

Or were actually above average.

Individually, Zach, Stephon, Jamal, Eddie and a healthy Q are all above average players in my mind. Collectively, not so much.




[Edited by - bippity10 on 06-12-2007 10:00 AM]
I just hope that people will like me
VDesai
Posts: 43302
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/6/2007  10:06 AM
Last night was a major case for the balanced lineup argument.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
12/6/2007  10:40 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Last night was a major case for the balanced lineup argument.

The balanced line-up argument does not need anything to support it. It is a given.

I just hope that people will like me
VDesai
Posts: 43302
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/6/2007  11:22 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by VDesai:

Last night was a major case for the balanced lineup argument.

The balanced line-up argument does not need anything to support it. It is a given.

So the question is, with the right lineups, does this team have the talent to be a legit playoff team in the east?
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
12/6/2007  11:28 AM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by VDesai:

Last night was a major case for the balanced lineup argument.

The balanced line-up argument does not need anything to support it. It is a given.

So the question is, with the right lineups, does this team have the talent to be a legit playoff team in the east?

I think they definitely have the talent. It's the mental side of things that makes me worry at that point
I just hope that people will like me
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/6/2007  11:32 AM
u can arrange a buncha apples & pears any way you want, you still ain't getting lemonade out of em.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
Posts: 43302
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/6/2007  11:33 AM
I think the addition by subtraction thing helps, but I'm still not sure about the team being legit with Crawford and Randolph as the main men.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
12/6/2007  11:37 AM
Posted by VDesai:

I think the addition by subtraction thing helps, but I'm still not sure about the team being legit with Crawford and Randolph as the main men.

I think it could if you had different pieces around them. But with the pieces we currently have it just makes their weaknessess stand out. We are asking them to do things that they are incapable or unwilling to do. We need Craw and Randolph to defend because nobody else does. we need Craw to take good shots and run the offense because nobody else does. Every player on this team is being asked to perform a role that they have never shown the ability to in the past. The only way to change this and see true results(beyond mediocrity) is to balance the roster.
I just hope that people will like me
VDesai
Posts: 43302
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/6/2007  11:47 AM
Jones, Lee, Balkman and temporarily Q are good pieces to surround them. Mardy, in theory, is one. I can even find a role for Nate Robinson as instant offense.

The next pieces to balance are a defensive minded big. And 2 or 3 who can shoot.
How come when some teams click right away and the Knicks still can't get it together?

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy