[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Sox Offer Ellsbury; Yanks Set Deadline on Johan
Forum Index  ›  Off-Topic Forum
Page 2 of 4 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
majorleads
Posts: 20536
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/29/2006
Member: #1213
12/3/2007  10:30 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

yeah yeah yeah... go back to dreaming up fantasy scenarios of the Mets getting Erik Bedard or Dan Haren for Carlos "The Truth" Gomez & 1 of your crappy pitching prospects & leave the trade talks that actually have a chance of happening to us.

the fact is the Red Sox aren't offering any more than Ellsbury & a couple of 2nd tier prospects of their own at this point... if u don't think Hughes, Melky & a minor leaguer doesn't trump that, ur just blindly hating.

So then what you're really saying is that both the Yankees and Red Sox don't feel Johan Santana is worth at least the same amount as Josh Beckett.

What I'm saying is that if Hughes + Melky + crappy prospect was a fair offer for Santana, there would already be an announcement of a press conference this week with Johan smiling away in his little Yankee pajamas.
Huh? Negotiation takes time. The Yankees just put Hughes on the table.

I know that. But TMS is saying that the Yankees offer trumps the Sox as if somehow those offers are the final ones. Oh yeah right, new tough guy on the block Hank Steinslobber Jr stomped his feet and has given the Twins a deadline of today.
http://majorleads.blogspot.com
AUTOADVERT
VDesai
Posts: 41975
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/3/2007  11:07 PM
I don't know which one of the 3-4 threads to post on, but Jason Stark is saying the Twins are getting close to pulling Santana off the table now.


Monday, December 3, 2007
Yankees might pull out of Santana talks for good
By Jayson Stark
ESPN.com

NASHVILLE -- With the Yankee's self-imposed deadline approaching, the Twins and Yankees were getting nowhere Monday night in their attempt to complete a deal for Johan Santana. So the Yankees were again making noises that they might pull out of the Santana talks for good.

According to baseball officials who were aware of the talks, the Twins again asked the Yankees on Monday night for pitcher Ian Kennedy -- a pitcher the Yankees have insisted for several days that they wouldn't trade -- as the third player in their proposed deal. The Yankees apparently turned down that proposal immediately.

The Yankees have held firm since Friday that if pitcher Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabera were part of their offer, the third player heading for Minnesota would have to be a second-tier prospect. So the highly regarded Kennedy headed a list of "untouchables" that included Joba Chamberlain, pitcher Alan Horne and outfielders Austin Jackson and Jose Tabata.

But the Twins also haven't budged since Friday. They wanted Kennedy then, and they still do. So unless one side or the other gives, it now appears a trade that once appeared inevitable could blow up for good.

The two teams still hadn't even met in person as of late Monday night, even though both clubs' delegations had arrived in full at the winter meetings. It's believed they simply exchanged proposals by phone, in what could be another indication that this trade was now on life support.

Meanwhile, officials from other clubs said some Yankees baseball personnel at the meetings have continued to agonize over the inclusion of Hughes in their offer, out of fear Hughes could come back to haunt them for years. So clearly, the decision to include Hughes in the first place was far from unanimous.

And if the Yankees had any inclination whatsoever to waver on their stand a few days ago, the news Monday that Andy Pettitte had decided to return undoubtedly helped ease those concerns.

With Pettitte back, the Yankees can mount a respectable rotation, with or without Santana -- around Pettitte, Chien-Ming Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy and Mike Mussina. They also are expected to renew their efforts to trade for Oakland's Dan Haren.

The Twins, on the other hand, may be having second thoughts about the repercussions of trading Santana in the first place, especially after the departure of his fellow face of the franchise, Torii Hunter.

"This is a monumental franchise decision," said an official of one AL team. "And I'm just not sure anymore if they're really ready to do this."

The Twins also continued to talk with the Red Sox. But despite Boston's decision to include center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, there was no indication those two teams were getting any closer to a deal, either.

Jayson Stark is a senior writer for ESPN.com. His new book, "The Stark Truth: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players in Baseball History," has been published by Triumph Books and now is available in bookstores. Click here to order a copy.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/4/2007  3:53 AM
whether i think that's a fair offer or not is besides the point... i've already gone on record as saying i thought it would take a monster package like Hughes & Wang to get us Johan a few weeks ago before all this talk even began... that was when i thought other teams would be involved in these discussions... teams like the Dodgers & Angels, who both have awesome young talent to offer MIN in a deal to get him, & when i also thought the Red Sox would be willing to give up Buchholtz & Ellsbury to keep him away from the Yankees.

now ESPN radio/Buster Olney's reporting that the Red Sox' original offer of Lester, Crisp, Lowrie & Masterson is what the Twins now have on the table... NO Ellsbury... the Twins are said to be favoring that one over Hughes, Melky & a minor leaguer.

if that's the case, to hell w/the Twins... no way should the Yankees cave in to their demands for Kennedy when their original offer trumps the Red Sox' current offer anyway... if they want to throw in a few more minor leaguers like Gonzales, Gardner or whoever, that's fine, but if MIN has such a hard on for Lester there's not much the Yankees can do about it... giving away Hughes, Kennedy & Melky wouldn't be a smart move for the Yankees to make unless the Red Sox were ready to give up Buchholtz or Ellsbury, in which case i'd even like to see that deal go down & see Boston's top 2 young kids go over to MIN.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/4/2007  4:02 AM
this all reminds me of when the D'Backs demanded our top young talent to get Curt Schilling & ended up trading him to BOS for Casey freakin' Fossum, Brandon Lyon & a couple of lint balls... how can anyone blame Hank Steinbrenner for not wanting to play that game?

[Edited by - TMS on 12-04-2007 01:05 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
Posts: 41975
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/4/2007  8:37 AM
If the Twins want the Sox package over Hughes and Melky, then they are idiots. The Yankee offer is already better than that. What they are doing is posturing to get the Yankees to put Kennedy in the deal and it would be collosally stupid to deal Hughes and Kennedy.
majorleads
Posts: 20536
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/29/2006
Member: #1213
12/4/2007  10:36 AM
From the Minneapolis Star Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1589888.html
Santana was incensed in the morning when he read reports that suggested he told the Twins that he wanted to be traded to either the Red Sox or Yankees, which certainly would have hampered the Twins' plans. Santana had his agent, Peter Greenberg, refute the reports.

"That's completely inaccurate," Greenberg said of the reports. "[Santana is] upset about that. He's put no limitations on Bill Smith to do his job."

Greenberg declined to say whether Santana would waive his no-trade clause if he's still with the Twins when the 2008 season starts. "That's a long way away," Greenberg said.

Santana will go to any team that wants him and can afford to pay him what he wants.
http://majorleads.blogspot.com
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/4/2007  1:24 PM
at this point i'm hoping that another team gets involved & gets Johan, cuz if the Red Sox get him for that package of Lester & 2nd tier prospects, it's a joke.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
majorleads
Posts: 20536
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/29/2006
Member: #1213
12/4/2007  2:07 PM
Posted by TMS:

at this point i'm hoping that another team gets involved & gets Johan, cuz if the Red Sox get him for that package of Lester & 2nd tier prospects, it's a joke.

If I was a Yankee fan, I would keep the 3 kids and not make the trade. Not because I think the 3 kids are destined to be great because you never know with young pitchers, I just feel it's so much more fun watching players come up through my own farm system as opposed to going out and trading them all away for someone else's players. Personally I hate that and that is why I would never trade Reyes for Johan despite pitching being the name of the game.

But I don't know how you can call the Red Sox prospects a joke. The Yankee offer is really only Hughes for Santana. No offense, but Melky is nothing to write home about. The Twins can get a Melky type player in a separate deal.

http://majorleads.blogspot.com
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
12/4/2007  2:19 PM
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

at this point i'm hoping that another team gets involved & gets Johan, cuz if the Red Sox get him for that package of Lester & 2nd tier prospects, it's a joke.

If I was a Yankee fan, I would keep the 3 kids and not make the trade. Not because I think the 3 kids are destined to be great because you never know with young pitchers, I just feel it's so much more fun watching players come up through my own farm system as opposed to going out and trading them all away for someone else's players. Personally I hate that and that is why I would never trade Reyes for Johan despite pitching being the name of the game.
We get to watch all 3 kids lose to Boston in the playoffs for the next ten years. That sounds like fun!
VDesai
Posts: 41975
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/4/2007  2:26 PM
I don't think Boston will ultimately win out either. Focusing on talking with Boston might just be another way of getting the Yanks to add to their offer.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/4/2007  2:27 PM
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

at this point i'm hoping that another team gets involved & gets Johan, cuz if the Red Sox get him for that package of Lester & 2nd tier prospects, it's a joke.

If I was a Yankee fan, I would keep the 3 kids and not make the trade. Not because I think the 3 kids are destined to be great because you never know with young pitchers, I just feel it's so much more fun watching players come up through my own farm system as opposed to going out and trading them all away for someone else's players. Personally I hate that and that is why I would never trade Reyes for Johan despite pitching being the name of the game.

But I don't know how you can call the Red Sox prospects a joke. The Yankee offer is really only Hughes for Santana. No offense, but Melky is nothing to write home about. The Twins can get a Melky type player in a separate deal.

u call Melky a non factor but rate guys like Lowrie & Masterson who haven't done a thing at the ML level as quality? where's the consistency in that? go look up what Melky did in the minors & compare those #'s to what Lowrie is putting up right now... they're very similar... now factor in the fact that Melky is a few months younger than Lowrie & the fact that he plays CF, a position that the Twins are trying desperately to fill right now... & Justin Masterson just posted a 4.34 ERA at AA ball last season... u honestly think the Yankees don't have 2nd tier prospects like that they wouldn't include in that Hughes/Melky package to get this deal done? come on, get real. Hughes is a way better pitching prospect than Jon Lester... & Coco freakin' Crisp? is someone smoking crack here? the Red Sox getting to dump that loser onto the Twins should come at a cost to the RED SOX, not the Twins... the Yankees' offer is a better package hands down.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
majorleads
Posts: 20536
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/29/2006
Member: #1213
12/4/2007  2:36 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

at this point i'm hoping that another team gets involved & gets Johan, cuz if the Red Sox get him for that package of Lester & 2nd tier prospects, it's a joke.

If I was a Yankee fan, I would keep the 3 kids and not make the trade. Not because I think the 3 kids are destined to be great because you never know with young pitchers, I just feel it's so much more fun watching players come up through my own farm system as opposed to going out and trading them all away for someone else's players. Personally I hate that and that is why I would never trade Reyes for Johan despite pitching being the name of the game.

But I don't know how you can call the Red Sox prospects a joke. The Yankee offer is really only Hughes for Santana. No offense, but Melky is nothing to write home about. The Twins can get a Melky type player in a separate deal.

u call Melky a non factor but rate guys like Lowrie & Masterson who haven't done a thing at the ML level as quality? where's the consistency in that? go look up what Melky did in the minors & compare those #'s to what Lowrie is putting up right now... they're very similar... now factor in the fact that Melky is a few months younger than Lowrie & the fact that he plays CF, a position that the Twins are trying desperately to fill right now... & Justin Masterson just posted a 4.34 ERA at AA ball last season... u honestly think the Yankees don't have 2nd tier prospects like that they wouldn't include in that Hughes/Melky package to get this deal done? come on, get real. Hughes is a way better pitching prospect than Jon Lester... & Coco freakin' Crisp? is someone smoking crack here? the Red Sox getting to dump that loser onto the Twins should come at a cost to the RED SOX, not the Twins... the Yankees' offer is a better package hands down.


Have you seen the Red Sox prospects play on an every day basis? Uh no. I'm just analyzing it from a Yankee perspective and all they are giving up is Hughes. I've seen Hughes and Melky and know what they bring to the table. Hughes has great potential, but a Melky type player is someone the Twins could pick up in a side deal without giving up hardly anything. Obviously the Twins like the "2nd tier" prospects the Red Sox are offering. That team knows how to scout.
http://majorleads.blogspot.com
majorleads
Posts: 20536
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/29/2006
Member: #1213
12/4/2007  2:38 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:

at this point i'm hoping that another team gets involved & gets Johan, cuz if the Red Sox get him for that package of Lester & 2nd tier prospects, it's a joke.

If I was a Yankee fan, I would keep the 3 kids and not make the trade. Not because I think the 3 kids are destined to be great because you never know with young pitchers, I just feel it's so much more fun watching players come up through my own farm system as opposed to going out and trading them all away for someone else's players. Personally I hate that and that is why I would never trade Reyes for Johan despite pitching being the name of the game.
We get to watch all 3 kids lose to Boston in the playoffs for the next ten years. That sounds like fun!

It's because you are someone who doesn't appreciate the game of baseball.
http://majorleads.blogspot.com
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/4/2007  2:47 PM
Posted by majorleads:

Have you seen the Red Sox prospects play on an every day basis? Uh no.

have you?
I'm just analyzing it from a Yankee perspective and all they are giving up is Hughes.

& i'm analyzing it from a Boston perspective & all they're giving up is Lester AND getting rid of a player they no longer want.

Hughes > Lester


you lose, i'm sorry.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/4/2007  2:48 PM
According to the Providence Journal, the Angels have made a late bid for Johan Santana, with Jered Weaver likely involved as bait.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
Posts: 41975
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/4/2007  2:52 PM
Posted by TMS:

According to the Providence Journal, the Angels have made a late bid for Johan Santana, with Jered Weaver likely involved as bait.

Yeah I was about to post that. Weaver struggled a bit last year, but that is a major piece to include
jaydh
Posts: 23057
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
12/4/2007  3:02 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:

Have you seen the Red Sox prospects play on an every day basis? Uh no.

have you?
I'm just analyzing it from a Yankee perspective and all they are giving up is Hughes.

& i'm analyzing it from a Boston perspective & all they're giving up is Lester AND getting rid of a player they no longer want.

Hughes > Lester


you lose, i'm sorry.

Hughes is only greater than Lester in potential right now. Masterson and Lowrie seem like top quality guys, one being a top end starter, the other being a very good hitting 2B/SS who could possibly be ready for the start of '08. So, in the deal, the Twins would be getting a ML ready SP and SS, an adequate OF, and a future top end rotation guy who isn't very far off. In a deal with the Yanks they get Hughes, an adequate OF, and some midgrade minor leaguer. How is that equal? Yanks won't include any other decent prospect as they have said "Joba Chamberlain, Alan Horne, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Jose Tabata have also been designated by the Yankees as off limits." So really, why would the twins just want Hughes when they can get 3 top prospects, 2 of which are expected to be ready for 08 in the majors.


[Edited by - jaydh on 12-04-2007 3:05 PM]
VDesai
Posts: 41975
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/4/2007  3:04 PM
If the Angels offer Weaver+Kendrick or Weaver+Brandon Wood its over.

Twins desperately need a 3b.
VDesai
Posts: 41975
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/4/2007  3:06 PM
Wow...some reports of Bedard to LA for Jonathon Broxton and Matt Kemp- that's a blockbuster right there.
jaydh
Posts: 23057
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
12/4/2007  3:17 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Wow...some reports of Bedard to LA for Jonathon Broxton and Matt Kemp- that's a blockbuster right there.


What a ridiculous price for Bedard.
Page 2 of 4 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Sox Offer Ellsbury; Yanks Set Deadline on Johan
Forum Index  ›  Off-Topic Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy