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HYPE????
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Pike
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6/11/2003  4:49 PM
Tkf, my point is... the talent pool in Europe is getting much stronger as the college pool continues to go in the other direction.
AUTOADVERT
tkf
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6/11/2003  6:35 PM
Posted by Pike:

Tkf, my point is... the talent pool in Europe is getting much stronger as the college pool continues to go in the other direction.

I am not arguing that, but if that is the case ( lack of good college players) don't you think that the Euro players are being overhyped and the disparity in talent is more so the US collegians going down than the Europeans getting that much better?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
dodger78
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6/12/2003  2:42 AM
I think the World Championships have shown, that the rest of the world has become better and better!
I still think that its part of the draft to hype some players and boost them up while others (like collison) are nearly forgotten!
Thats what happens before drafts!!!
tkf
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6/12/2003  9:31 AM
Posted by dodger78:

I think the World Championships have shown, that the rest of the world has become better and better!
I still think that its part of the draft to hype some players and boost them up while others (like collison) are nearly forgotten!
Thats what happens before drafts!!!

yea and collison will drop in the draft and be a steal for some team, while a lot of Frederick Weiss type busts get picked higher...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
DefAndReb
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6/12/2003  9:36 AM
There's a difference between the processes that bring a Euro player and a college player to the NBA.

College game is different, more pressing, shooters aren't that good, three-point line is much closer to the basket. Euro players are playing pro ball, not the level of NBA, but it's a level much higher than college. Think about who plays in Europe: young talented guys the same age as our high-schoolers/underclassmen, getting minutes against guys who are Euro-pro vets, or have played the NBA game, and are not quite good enough to stay in the NBA. Europe is the new CBA, with better players, mainly because they have better shooting skills.

NCAA is depleted because kids leave so early or skip college altogether, because they are drafted on potential, not current level. The NCAA talent level decreases, and so does the quality of play, and that affects the college players.

You learn to play against your competitors, and if they are average, your game will be average when you go up against someone better. John Wallace in the NCAA Tournament? A steamroller. John Wallace vs. NBA speed/strength? A tricycle.

A guy who scores 20 a game in Europe is arguably going to be better than one who scores 20 a game vs. the schmoes still sticking it out in college. It doesn't always work out that way, but drafting is a gamble. No one know for sure who the best players in this draft will be five years from now, but that's what all these GMs and scouts are doing. Gambling.

In Pavel's case, he's 7'5" and can play well enough that he's worth the project. If a 7'5" project succeeds, it's all worth it, and you're a genius GM. If not, it was worth the shot. Think about it. A Russian and Chinese, 7 and a half feet tall each, playing one on one in a capitalist Gatorade commercial. Think of the money this guy brings to your team if he's any good! If he turns out to rock, you'll be villified for passing him up.

Hype? Don't know yet. Worth it? Always.
GoNyGoNyGo
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6/12/2003  9:45 AM
I agree, you cannot pass on a 7'5" who can move unlike Shawn Bradley. MIng will be great and had a very good rookie season last year. IF Pavel can be half as good this year and improve each year, in 3 years he will be a top center in the league let alone the East.

TKF, I like Collison too. I think he will be sold player in the style of Laimbeer but not as dirty. He can hit a 15 footer and he can play with his back to the hoop. He needs to bulk up a bit though.
tkf
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6/12/2003  10:44 AM
DefandReb: good points, but the press has everyone of these players posessing these so called great all around skills and that it not the case with most of them. I do agree about Pavel but believe me there will be a lot of collegian players that fall late because of the Euro invasion and I tell you they will be steals. For example, guys like Hatten are not even on the draft board, I think he is a player, collison, Josh Howard, West, and even Dukes Dhantay Jones IMO will be good players. If we are looking at upside then why are cats like Jones from Duke slipping, this kid is a stud athlete who IMO is getting better, he reminds me of a Desmond mason with a better shot. West has a polished down low game and for some reason people think that his upside is limited, I beg to differ, but these guys will slip and someone will have themselves a good player.... And if carmello Anthony slips out of the #3 slot then whoever picks at 4 is the real lottery winner getting this kid that late!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pike
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6/12/2003  10:46 AM
... don't believe any of the nonsense that Carmelo will fall out of the #3 spot.
DefAndReb
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6/12/2003  11:09 AM
I'm just saying the college players fall because of the reasons I stated. It doesn't mean the Euro player is always better. We all know that, given history, there is at least one gem in the late first round who deserved to go higher. It happens every year.
playa2
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6/12/2003  11:48 AM
TKF AREN'T YOU THE ONE WHO SAID KENYON MARTIN IS A BUM? TELL TIMMY THAT AND WATCH HIM LAUGH AT U!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Pike
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6/12/2003  11:53 AM
Yeah Playa, we laugh at tkf over his ridiculous denial/opinion of KMART... like we laugh at you about everything.
tkf
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6/12/2003  12:30 PM
Posted by playa2:

TKF AREN'T YOU THE ONE WHO SAID KENYON MARTIN IS A BUM? TELL TIMMY THAT AND WATCH HIM LAUGH AT U!

playa come on dukes, if not for Deke Timmy would be doing Kenyon for 30 a game.. please..

And by the way the first 3 games Kenyon scored 58 points while taking 58 shots... please the guy is a average bum..... like I said, if the nets run the offense through that brick mason they will lose for sure!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
ARES
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6/12/2003  12:35 PM
deke aint doing nothing Chris mihm aint.

kenyon pct is better than a gou like iverson, kobe, lamar odom

And they have been running the offense throught him
NEW YORK, NEW YORK BIG CITY OF DREAMS, BUT EVERYTHING IN NEW YORK AINT ALWAYS WHAT IT SEEMS
tkf
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6/12/2003  12:47 PM
Posted by ARES:

deke aint doing nothing Chris mihm aint.

kenyon pct is better than a gou like iverson, kobe, lamar odom

And they have been running the offense throught him

well whatever, let the nets continue running the offense through him and they will lose.. For sure!!! they are lucky they are not playing an offensive team like Dallas....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Vmart
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6/12/2003  12:54 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by ARES:

deke aint doing nothing Chris mihm aint.

kenyon pct is better than a gou like iverson, kobe, lamar odom

And they have been running the offense throught him

well whatever, let the nets continue running the offense through him and they will lose.. For sure!!! they are lucky they are not playing an offensive team like Dallas....

If they played Dallas they would run all over them. The Spurs are a good defensive team. The Nets are a good defensive team. The offense of both teams can't get anything going because of the defense being played by both teams. If it were Dallas the style of play would have change and the Nets would have adjusted to the running game. The fact that Dallas plays zero defense would allow the nets to get more points on the board and they would somewhat be able to control Dallas because the Nets play defense.
NYKBocker
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6/12/2003  12:59 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by ARES:

deke aint doing nothing Chris mihm aint.

kenyon pct is better than a gou like iverson, kobe, lamar odom

And they have been running the offense throught him

well whatever, let the nets continue running the offense through him and they will lose.. For sure!!! they are lucky they are not playing an offensive team like Dallas....

If they played Dallas they would run all over them. The Spurs are a good defensive team. The Nets are a good defensive team. The offense of both teams can't get anything going because of the defense being played by both teams. If it were Dallas the style of play would have change and the Nets would have adjusted to the running game. The fact that Dallas plays zero defense would allow the nets to get more points on the board and they would somewhat be able to control Dallas because the Nets play defense.

I agree. The Nets would kill the Mavs.
ARES
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6/12/2003  1:03 PM
me too
NEW YORK, NEW YORK BIG CITY OF DREAMS, BUT EVERYTHING IN NEW YORK AINT ALWAYS WHAT IT SEEMS
NYKBocker
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6/12/2003  1:06 PM
Ares. Do you really hate the Knicks? Hate is such a powerful word. I like to reserve that word towards the Heat, Chicago, Reggie Miller, Redskins, Eagles and Cowboys. Scottie Pippen gets an (dis)honorable mention.
Pike
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6/12/2003  1:20 PM
Tkf, your stance on KMART is so absurd, it borders on insanity.
tkf
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6/12/2003  1:22 PM
The way you beat Dallas is to pound them down low where they are weak and that is why the spurs beat them, because there were times where Dallas ate up the spurs defense. The nets like to run and they do not have nearly the weapons Dallas has, especially if jump shooting Dirk is healthy. You are sadly mistaken if you think Dallas would get run over by the nets... The nets would play right into their hands and if you think they would outscore Dallas with brick shooting Jefferson, Kidd and martin you are crazy.. This finals suck because the spurs are going to play grind it out, and they should because they have Duncan and the nets half court offense sucks..

Dallas Defense is weak but at times they have stepped up and played some solid D and I think they could outscor NJ with their eyes closed!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
HYPE????

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