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K nicks need to trade either Curry or Randolph.....
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MS
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12/4/2007  11:16 AM
Udonis Haslem
6-8 SF from Florida
12.3 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 35.4 minutes
Jason Williams
6-1 PG from Florida
9.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 5.4 apg in 33.9 minutes
Outgoing Players
Zach Randolph
6-9 PF from Michigan State
18.0 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 1.4 apg in 33.5 minutes

How about that trade and then have Haslem going to the Kings for Ron Artest with Nate Robinson. That deal works out for Miami they shift Wade over to the point davis to the two get another big time scorer to go with Wade, Shaq. Riley is desperate he may do it. The Kings get a good power foward and Nate Robinson not a bad trade off.....

Crawford
Marbury
Artest
Lee
Curry

Williams is another expring contract to go with Fred Jones at the end of the season you clear Zachs deal and have a more balanced watchable roster
AUTOADVERT
Panos
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12/4/2007  11:26 AM
Posted by MS:

Udonis Haslem
6-8 SF from Florida
12.3 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 35.4 minutes
Jason Williams
6-1 PG from Florida
9.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 5.4 apg in 33.9 minutes
Outgoing Players
Zach Randolph
6-9 PF from Michigan State
18.0 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 1.4 apg in 33.5 minutes

How about that trade and then have Haslem going to the Kings for Ron Artest with Nate Robinson. That deal works out for Miami they shift Wade over to the point davis to the two get another big time scorer to go with Wade, Shaq. Riley is desperate he may do it. The Kings get a good power foward and Nate Robinson not a bad trade off.....

Crawford
Marbury
Artest
Lee
Curry

Williams is another expring contract to go with Fred Jones at the end of the season you clear Zachs deal and have a more balanced watchable roster

Not bad. In fact, Haslem is exactly the kind of player you want next to Curry.
He's tough, plays D, grabs bounds, and can hit an occassional jumper. I'd keep him.
VDesai
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12/4/2007  11:31 AM
We can go back on forth with this- but both are such offense focused players that whoever is paired with them, a PF or C, needs to be more of a defensive minded guy.
MS
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12/4/2007  11:42 AM
You could always do that deal keep haslem it would open up minutes for lee and see if a collins/balkman/jones package for artest would work.

Then try to offer Nate and our first round pick for Lowry.

Crawford-Lowry
Marbury-Q
Artest-Jefferies
Haslem-Lee
Curry

Thats a pretty balance team that can really play defense
VDesai
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12/4/2007  11:46 AM
Why would you trade a lottery pick and Nate for Lowery.
MS
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12/4/2007  11:52 AM
Because Nate is not what we need and if we can pull off those two deals your not looking at a team in a horrific draft position. Lowry never turns the ball over plays great defense and can get by anyone, giving the oppurtunity you have your pg of the future. and three very good defenders in the lineup and then jamal and eddy actually become valuable players.

And isiah hasn't proven he can pick players thus far. Frye is horrible can't get minutes on a team thats not making the playoffs, nate has a terrible attitude and is getting benched, collins is a backup at best and balkman is a great team guy that is a tweener (love him) and lee is a good solid rotation player.

Isiah said no one in the previous years draft is better than Eddy, when Roy, Aldridge and Gay are all much better all around players, i don't trust his judgement. In this case your actually doing what isiah doesn't know how to do, build a team.

bitty41
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12/4/2007  12:18 PM
A wise man once man said a GM who starts listening to fans will be sitting with them.

Look I realize that Isiah Thomas should be fired but I think some of you should stop trying to be a jack-leg NBA GM . Because if you guys were real-life GMs you would have NBA teams filled with NBDL talent and a pay roll of 10 million dollars . Guys the whole reason for trading, drafting, signing etc is for the purpose of attaining a good team not just a low-budget team. I think that has totally flown out of the window in some people's minds. What is your hope for the Knicks putting together a good team or getting under the salary cap?

[Edited by - bitty41 on 12-04-2007 12:22 PM]
TheGame
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12/4/2007  12:51 PM
The problem is not Zach and Curry (or at least the main problem is not them). Our bigger problem is the 1,2, and 3 spots. You have to use Lee, Crawford, Nate, and Balkman as trade bait to get more complete players at those three positions. We can then see what we have as a team.

If we cannot turn the season around in the next 20 games, then the strategy clearly has to be to lose games and develop Chandler, Collins, Balkman, Morris, and Nate and see what they can do. Hopefully, we can get an Mayo in the draft, and then trade Crawford for an upgrade at the SG spot. If Chandler is everything IT says he can be (which he looks like he can be a solid two-way SF), then our lineup would start to have more snergy.

[Edited by - thegame on 12-04-2007 12:52 PM]
Trust the Process
Cosmic
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12/4/2007  1:11 PM
Because if you guys were real-life GMs you would have NBA teams filled with NBDL talent and a pay roll of 10 million dollars


Damn...that's just funny as hell.
http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
Masterplan
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12/4/2007  1:30 PM
Posted by TheGame:

The problem is not Zach and Curry (or at least the main problem is not them). Our bigger problem is the 1,2, and 3 spots.

this kind of statement bugs me. our bigs don't share the ball, turn it over too much and play no defense. how are they not at least part of the problem? even if we get kidd bowen and artest to man the 1,2 and 3 we'll still get killed by the easiest pick plays. we'll still go through cold spells on offense when curry isn't performing and zach is trying to shoot through slumps.

this cannot be our frontcourt of the future if we want to win big.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 12-04-2007 1:30 PM]
MS
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12/4/2007  1:43 PM
Actually we would have a starting center who is 20 years old on a rookie contract and kyle lowry with last years pick.

And there wouldnt be steve francis, jalen rose, malik rose, mo taylor. I don't care what anyone says about the fans, if its clear you shouldn't sign james and jefferies there is no way to give isiah credit for anything. he has made one great move since he has been here david lee, thats it thats all. Ohh and not to mention the q deal just stupid, firmly believe i could out gm isiah, and i am sure a lot of others feel they could do the same.

And please tell me how a front court of curry, haslem, artest is nbdl talent?
MS
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12/4/2007  1:44 PM
Thats what we need Mayo, he has a great attitude
tkf
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12/4/2007  4:50 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by Cosmic:

Can we please face facts? No one or two trades will change what the other players are.

We need to dump our entire starting five. They're all garbage. Some of our bench also needs to be dumped.

By the time you're done with it all you're keeping are a few kids with some potential.


This thing needs to be entirely stripped down. There is no fixing it any other way.

exactly. the problem with this team are that the players deficiencies can't be covered up by the other players because they are also lacking in so many areas..

For instance, you can't have balkman and lee on the floor with zach and curry, because of the dump down effect.. We dump the ball to zach and curry and stand around, well since lee and balkman can't shoot and the same for jeffries, this renders them useless, they are slashers, need to be in a system where there is ball movement, which leads to cuts to the basket and weakside rebounds....

Then if you sit curry and zach, we are left with a perimeter team, with the offense dominated by marbury and crawford, those two don't really have an idea of what a motion offense is..

Ok, so we keep in marbury, and mix and match them with balkman, lee and curry.. The problem is, still no outside shooting and lack of defense..

anyway you mix this team, there are no combinations it seems where you can have defense and offense on the floor at the same time..

this is a sad situation..

That's the point right there. No one, two, or even three new attainable players will cause Eddy to play defense and with passion, will stop Crawford from chucking and play defense, will turn zach from Mo Taylor into Chris Webber, give Balk and Lee and Mardy jump shots. It's just not going to happen it's not how things work.

In order for any one of our five starters to look good we'd have to trade four of the five starters and put four brand new two-way team oriented players around any 1 of the 5 remaining starters. Only then will they look good.

Again, in other words, there is no fix anymore, it just has to be torn down completely.

yea, as much as I like lee and balkman and collins, you can't have 3 of them on the team, make that 4 including jeffries, who can't shoot the ball at all... I can see having one of the two. Lee or balkman, but as soon as you put both on the floor for extended periods, you do your offense a diservice.... At some point NY is going to have to get players that can at least play both sides adequately..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
bitty41
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12/4/2007  4:55 PM
MS,

I don't necessarily think some fans are wrong but at the same time with the invention of message boards, 24 access to all things Sports, fantasy leagues coupled with a horrible GM can be a receipe for total insanity among the fanbase. I think some of us have lost our way we don't even care about skill or talent and if we do its like the 4th or 5th priority. Particular Knick fans all we care about is money, money, money, and if a player wants to be well received in NY he better be making close to the bare mininum. Otherwise he better be an MVP candidate. Here we are talking about replacing Curry or Randolph. Hello these are the only two guys who actually have the ability to play with some of the elite players in this league. And what many fans fail to realize is that for most athletes its all situational. Meaning that a player' success depends greatly upon who is coach is, what kind of system is in place, and what players he is surrounded with. Currently our coach is a joke, there is no supporting cast on this team, and system what system. So proposing these trades brings nothing to the table it brings no answers for what lies ahead for the Knicks organization and most importantly it has absolutely no impact in the real world. So in the end proposing these trades are just another form of fantasy basketabll and thats being generous.

But this all just my own 2 cents on the issue.
Bonn1997
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12/4/2007  5:13 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by TheGame:

The problem is not Zach and Curry (or at least the main problem is not them). Our bigger problem is the 1,2, and 3 spots.

this kind of statement bugs me. our bigs don't share the ball, turn it over too much and play no defense. how are they not at least part of the problem? even if we get kidd bowen and artest to man the 1,2 and 3 we'll still get killed by the easiest pick plays. we'll still go through cold spells on offense when curry isn't performing and zach is trying to shoot through slumps.

this cannot be our frontcourt of the future if we want to win big.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 12-04-2007 1:30 PM]

Our problems are the 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 spots. We're awful at each of them--not just bad but awful. That's what it takes to lose 11 of 16.
TMS
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12/4/2007  5:14 PM
you're wrong bitty... i can take a player making big dollars as long as he fits w/the rest of the parts... i even gave Steve Francis an open mind when Isiah traded for him cuz i thought Marbury was on his way out & Isiah was angling for a KG trade last year... that didn't happen obviously... i gave the Jalen Rose trade a pass cuz we got a pick out of the deal... i gave Marbury & Penny a complete open mind when that deal was made, in fact i applauded Isiah for making it... that turned out to be an unmitigated disaster... there comes a time when you keep seeing the same mistakes being made over & over, you lose faith in subsequent moves to net any positive results... until Isiah proves to me that he's got a plan that he's trying to build towards & not just making haphazard moves w/no thought whatsoever to any longterm ramifications, he's not winning my trust ever again.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bitty41
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12/4/2007  5:26 PM
Posted by TMS:

you're wrong bitty... i can take a player making big dollars as long as he fits w/the rest of the parts... i even gave Steve Francis an open mind when Isiah traded for him cuz i thought Marbury was on his way out & Isiah was angling for a KG trade last year... that didn't happen obviously... i gave the Jalen Rose trade a pass cuz we got a pick out of the deal... i gave Marbury & Penny a complete open mind when that deal was made, in fact i applauded Isiah for making it... that turned out to be an unmitigated disaster... there comes a time when you keep seeing the same mistakes being made over & over, you lose faith in subsequent moves to net any positive results... until Isiah proves to me that he's got a plan that he's trying to build towards & not just making haphazard moves w/no thought whatsoever to any longterm ramifications, he's not winning my trust ever again.

TMS,

You missed my point completely this isn't an Isiah Thomas defense (how dare you accuse me of such a terrible thing). This is a defense of players who are brought into bad situations and asked to perform the near impossible. These guys aren't miracle workers they cann't make a proper supporting cast magically appear around them and they cann't make all the things that have been troubling the team for years disappear. And until players are given managerial power in their contracts (which actually scares more then comforts) then a great deal of all this blame lays with the management and coaching.
Bippity10
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12/4/2007  5:32 PM
I keep seeing how our players need a better supporting cast. The reason why we always need a better supporting cast is that we continue to bring in 1 dimensional players.
I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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12/4/2007  5:50 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by TMS:

you're wrong bitty... i can take a player making big dollars as long as he fits w/the rest of the parts... i even gave Steve Francis an open mind when Isiah traded for him cuz i thought Marbury was on his way out & Isiah was angling for a KG trade last year... that didn't happen obviously... i gave the Jalen Rose trade a pass cuz we got a pick out of the deal... i gave Marbury & Penny a complete open mind when that deal was made, in fact i applauded Isiah for making it... that turned out to be an unmitigated disaster... there comes a time when you keep seeing the same mistakes being made over & over, you lose faith in subsequent moves to net any positive results... until Isiah proves to me that he's got a plan that he's trying to build towards & not just making haphazard moves w/no thought whatsoever to any longterm ramifications, he's not winning my trust ever again.

TMS,

You missed my point completely this isn't an Isiah Thomas defense (how dare you accuse me of such a terrible thing). This is a defense of players who are brought into bad situations and asked to perform the near impossible. These guys aren't miracle workers they cann't make a proper supporting cast magically appear around them and they cann't make all the things that have been troubling the team for years disappear. And until players are given managerial power in their contracts (which actually scares more then comforts) then a great deal of all this blame lays with the management and coaching.

i didn't accuse you of defending Isiah... i was responding to this part of your earlier comment:
I think some of us have lost our way we don't even care about skill or talent and if we do its like the 4th or 5th priority. Particular Knick fans all we care about is money, money, money, and if a player wants to be well received in NY he better be making close to the bare mininum. Otherwise he better be an MVP candidate.

i just gave u several examples of how i've kept an open mind on past trades of players that carried along w/them horrendous contracts, 1 of whom came here w/a ton of talent & ability in Steph, none of which i ever expected to be an MVP candidate... i've never held players to these standards yet u seem to be suggesting that i have... i only ask that the players being brought in make logical sense & fit some type of logical vision of what we're trying to build here, which should be a balanced, winning team... Zach didn't fit this team's needs & this team is just as bad as they were last season with all of the same weaknesses & shortcomings... so why did we trade for him? cuz he came to us for "cheap" at only $61 million dollars & Channing Frye? come on.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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12/4/2007  5:51 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I keep seeing how our players need a better supporting cast. The reason why we always need a better supporting cast is that we continue to bring in 1 dimensional players.

word to the muthalovin' herd.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
K nicks need to trade either Curry or Randolph.....

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