Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by holfresh:

We need to run pick and rolls with Marbs and Zach...Curry needs more touches in the post...When Curry and Zach post, there needs to be cutters to the basket...The offense needs to revert to Curry as the focal point...

And don't be silly...Marbs and Curry starts...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-06-2007 01:07 AM]

Cutters require the motion offense that we were supposed to have last season, and also a PG who knows how to run an offense. Unfortunately, we don't have players who know how to cut to the right spots besides Fred Jones and Balkman and David Lee and we don't have a PG who can run that type of offense. Nor do we have the low post players who can consistently pass out of the double teams nor look for those cutters. Plus, that type of motion offense tends to require a running offense, and if our defense is as bad as it is, we will not have many opportunities to run in the first place.

I'm with TMS. Trade Curry while his value might still be up, for someone we actually need, whether it's a lesser talent or not. Forget the past draft picks. That's in the past. We've been throwing away draft picks anyway. Trade him for that shotblocker or that leading PG who can D' up. There's got to be someone available SOMEWHERE for Curry. And I think Marbury is keeping us from winning at this point. The team plays much better on both ends when he's not on the court and they play together, whether they win or lose. If you can't get anything worth him, just buy him out. He only has a year and a half left.

I totally disagree...Much as we hate Steph...He can run the team offensively...At this point it may just be too late to count on this guy to do the job for us...For years I have been hearing he is a selfish player on the court, I just haven't seen it...Also, the reason the Knicks isn't winning isn't because Marbury is on the court...Thats just a misnomer that is too widely accepted here..

A shot blocker is great to have but he must also have more tools to help you win games...Dalembert isn't exactly making Philly the team to beat either...Philly has all the the personnel that most here has been asking for..A big man who block shots, A small forward who is an excellent defender...A point guard who think pass first and can defend...A long range shooter...How are they doing by the way...Curry still shoots at a high percentage but doesn't get enough looks in this offense...He has been a little more active defensively but needs to be a lot more...The answer to winning basketball is not as easy as most here cliam it is...I really don't think it's wise to give up on Zach and Curry 17 games into the season...

Posted by tkf:

so we use 4 first round picks on two players that will come off the bench? wow.....

who said anyone wanted to trade Curry for 2 bench players? i want a starter who can fill 1 of our 2 biggest needs right now... i don't think starting D Lee w/Zach will work either cuz he's a weak defender... he's better off the bench if Zach is going to be our PF... we need to address the lack of shotblocking & low post defense as well as the lack of a lockdown perimeter defender to pair up w/Jamal in the backcourt... i don't even mind going w/Jones as a starter for now as long as we can get that shotblocking intimidator here to offset our bigmen's defensive weaknesses.

ah, gotcha... misread that one.

whatever we gave up for Curry is immaterial now... the fact is we need to fix this roster somehow... if it takes trading Curry to do it, that's what's gotta be done... benching him is not a solution... the only thing that does is decrease his trade value & make it even harder for us to fix what needs to be fixed here... if D Lee were a good low post defender or shotblocker i'd be all for that idea, but he ain't.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by tkf:

so we use 4 first round picks on two players that will come off the bench? wow.....

who said anyone wanted to trade Curry for 2 bench players?

People are saying that both Curry and Marbury should be bench players if we keep them. I agree that it's pathetic to give up 4 1st round picks--at least 2 and probably 3 in the lottery--for these players. That alone is enough to fire the GM. The draft picks are sunk costs now, like someone else said, but you still have to hold the person who made these trades accountable. It's not like Isiah's other moves have compensated for these trades and produced a winning team.

This just really leaves me tripping on why Isaiah makes the moves that he does. He made the goofball gamble on bringing Curry in here which obviously hasn't worked but instead of bringing in a player that would compliment Curry or do the things that he doesn't do like rebounding - hello- he brings in Zach who totally takes away from Curry's abilities. His a better rebounder but is some one who needs to operate in the post (where Curry stands planted) to score. I just don't understand him.

I know I keep being stuck on this but this is a team of players who don't compliment each other and the entire roster was constructed by Isiah but somehow he is surprised that it's not working. I mean you don't need to be a basketball genius to figure out what would make a productive team. You figure out what kind of team you want to build, whether it's going to be a defensive minded team first or offensive and then you go out and build the team, get guys who fit in with that direction. It just seems like Isiah has no clear direction or idea of how to coach or build a winning basketball team. This team just doesn't make sense. For instance, Crawford is a very streaky player. He is the type of guy who needs to play a lot of minutes and touch the ball a lot to build any type of momentum. He will not be effective if his minutes are sporadic or if he's not involved in moving the ball. I mean to be that's obvious but for some reason to me, Isaiah doesn't play towards his strengths. Yeah, I don't really like how he's effective, I think he has to erratic and inefficient at times to get to his best. But Isaiah traded for him, he should understand him better than any of us to know what kind of player he needs and what he needs to be successful.

I just don't believe that even with the talent that is present on this team, that it will be used properly. I just don't think that Isaiah gets it. That's evident in his trades/picks and lineups. He's not a good coach. And I've given him up until this year to make that statement. I watched and waited through his trades and picks to try to see where he was headed. And at this point his direction makes no sense to me.

Let's not get off track here. When we get solid production from our Guards, this team wins. We know that Zach, Curry and Lee can produce. That's not our problem. Our problem has been that we haven't gotten the consistently good Jamal and Q has had a bad start, tho he seems to be getting better.

With Jones we see how adding a guy who defends, moves the ball and penetrates can help this team. Overall we see that when this team simply moves the ball teams have a hard time stopping our offense. Steph, Curry and Nate are some of the biggest culprits in stopping the ball movement. IF Isiah can get on those guys to make quicker passes instead of holding the ball and looking around so much that would help a lot. Force feeding the post instead of letting it come more naturally has been a huge problem in making the offense stagnate. Teams defend the post feed much harder than the perimeter, so it's always going to be a challenge to make the entry pass to Curry directly. This is why we need to look for more deception in getting it to him. Motion and ball movement is better than the strict post feed and then stand around and watch offense.

In the future we simply need to do what Toronto and Orlando did and that is add shooters. It looked like Isiah realized this when he drafted Chandler and Nichols, but we all know how that ended. Some of us thought he should look to add a Matt Carroll or Kapono and I still believe that would've been a solid move for this team along with keeping Nichols. I still don't know why he hasn't played Chandler.

Isiah just has to do a better job of using the players we have. He's been very up and down this year in his coaching. I still don't think he has totally gotten a handle on how to use his roster and that's not good at all. He had no choice last night, but to do what he did and it is basically a good idea of some of the things he needs to do.

Posted by lovespree:

This just really leaves me tripping on why Isaiah makes the moves that he does. He made the goofball gamble on bringing Curry in here which obviously hasn't worked but instead of bringing in a player that would compliment Curry or do the things that he doesn't do like rebounding - hello- he brings in Zach who totally takes away from Curry's abilities. His a better rebounder but is some one who needs to operate in the post (where Curry stands planted) to score. I just don't understand him.

I know I keep being stuck on this but this is a team of players who don't compliment each other and the entire roster was constructed by Isiah but somehow he is surprised that it's not working...

Just to play Devil's Advocate here for a sec. I've heard the argument put forth that Isiah has done the best he could given the constraints he's working under. He hasn't had the opportunity to trade for great players or even players that compliment the current roster. He started out with not many desirable players and he's hampered by being hopelessly over the salary cap.

When he's able to bring in guys, they are guys with issues. Guys who might be talented, but that teams need to get rid of.

Apparently, that's the reality of the type of player we can get after 8 years of Layden/Isiah : One who doesn't fit well with our current guys, and one who has some kind of issue that makes him undesirable in spite of his talent.

Maybe someday this all leads to some kind of "Danny Ainge Kevin gets Garnett" type of trade.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by TMS:

i vote for buying out Marbs & trading Eddy Curry to balance out the roster

I would do the same but I tell you what even though without those two flow killers on the team we're still not good - this would not be a step towards improving our playoff chances - it'd be the first steps in a rebuild for next we'd really see why Crawford had to go. We'd still be wanting QRich gone. On and on down the list.

However, buying out Marbury and trading Curry for picks, expiring, maybe a rookie or sophomore is the first good step in a rebuilding direction.

i wouldn't trade Curry for an expiring & a pick unless that pick happened to be in the lottery... i don't see how giving him up for a late 20's pick really helps this team all that much... his contract isn't so heinous that it prevents us from making trades... i only give him up for a good, starting calibre player that can help balance out this rotation, or a young kid w/big upside potential... Curry's still only 23 for God's sakes.

my ideal would be to trade him to the Lakers either as part of a package to get Kobe in the offseason (if he still wants out by then) or package him w/D Lee for Bynum, Crittendon & Radmanovic... that would give us a young defensive shotblocking C w/big upside to play alongside Zach, a perimeter shooter to help spread the floor for those guys to work in the paint, & a young PG w/big upside potential to groom for the future... in the meantime that team could win enough games to appease Knick fans & keep them interested in the games... then i make sure to buyout Marbury cuz there's no way i want him to poison the new kids we'd be bringing in w/his attitude & unprofessional behavior... maybe he can go join his buddies in LA alongside Kobe after that.

C - Bynum / Morris / Turd
PF - Zach / Radmanovic / Malik
SF - Balkman / Chandler / Jefferies
SG - Q Rich / Jones / Mardy
PG - Jamal / Nate / Crittendon

There is no way in hell the lakers do that deal it doesn't make them better, jarvis is going to be a very good player, and lee isn't really any upgrade over ronny.

Bynum is already more valuable and a better player than curry so whats the insentive for them to deal.

Holfresh I will agree on you about Curry he should be the focal point on offense. He is a more efficent scorer than Zach. As long as Steph is on this team we will never win. He quit on his team, and he has never been a winner. We have too many guys on this team that needs shots all the time. If we dont chsnge that it will be a inconsistent year.

Posted by Cosmic:

TMS - Curry turned 25. He's not 23.

ur right... i got so damn used to saying "He's 23 for God's sakes!" over the past couple years it became a habit.

Posted by Bippity10:

We lost 2 lottery picks in the trade for Curry. You either make him the focal point of the offense and see if he can lead the team or you move him for people that can help you balance the roster. If this is impossible, you move him to create flexibility to obtain people that can balance the roster. I have no doubt that Curry and Zach with the right supporting cast can make us a solid team. But that team has a ceiling as long as they don't provide interior defense.

We did that last year and we were headed for about 38 wins until those injuries mounted. Curry as the focal point doesn't yield results. We can't look at what we lost to acquired him we must just find a way to move him for the best package we can get. You don't keep him and continue the mediocre play if you can't find someone as stupid as Isiah to give US back a #2 and the right to swap to #9 in consecutive drafts. You do what is best for the team and that's growing more evident that moving Curry and buying out Marbury might be the only remaining shot to win anything with this mess Isiah constructed.