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FireIsiah
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11/28/2007  12:37 AM
Posted by TMS:

Marbury & Malik are the only contracts slated to come off the books by the time Lebron, Wade & Kobe can opt out of their contracts & become free agents... that won't be nearly enough to get us under the cap to make any kind of offer to those guys.

Lebron can opt out in 2 years so for the 2010 season he will be available. Steph, Q, Malik,Jerome James and Nate are all off the books. We only have 29 mill on the books for 2010.
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Erniecat
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11/28/2007  1:13 AM
Posted by firefly:

Here's an interesting question.

If Oscar Robertson was so amazing, why is he not widely acknowledged as the best ballplayer ever, instead of Michael?

Now, I never saw the Big O play, but you can't average double digit assists every season without being a team leader. His offensive output was obviously amazing, and he could board like Kareem.

Is it the aggressive winner thing?

And is it the same reason why Kobe is widely recognized as the best ballplayer in the league, not LeBron?


It's simple: Jordan is regarded as the best ever because he was not only the best player in the league, but he was by far the most important player on one of the most dominant teams ever, which won six titles, etc., etc.

In addition to his obvious talent, it was Jordan's winning ways that really made him the best ever.

Just look at Jordan, Bird and Magic. All three were all-time greats in terms of skill, obviously. But what separates Jordan, in my mind, is that he led a team to an amazing dynasty despite not having a roster filled with studs. Bird and Magic had better supporting casts.
TMS
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11/28/2007  1:26 AM
Posted by FireIsiah:

Lebron can opt out in 2 years so for the 2010 season he will be available. Steph, Q, Malik,Jerome James and Nate are all off the books. We only have 29 mill on the books for 2010.

Zach $17,333,333
Curry $11,276,863 (player option)
Jamal $10,080,000
Jefferies $6,883,400 (player option)
Chandler $2,130,481

that totals to a lot more than $28 million... plus you forgot to factor in the salaries of D Lee, Balkman, Mardy, Nate & Morris, who may or may not be a part of this team then... even if we let all 5 of those kids walk for nothing, we still aren't under the cap enough dollars to make a max offer to Lebron... this is why i hated the Zach trade... it doesn't do much to help us now, & it pretty much FUKKS us down the road as well.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-27-2007 10:27 PM]
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TrueBlue
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11/28/2007  1:56 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by FireIsiah:

Lebron can opt out in 2 years so for the 2010 season he will be available. Steph, Q, Malik,Jerome James and Nate are all off the books. We only have 29 mill on the books for 2010.

Zach $17,333,333
Curry $11,276,863 (player option)
Jamal $10,080,000
Jefferies $6,883,400 (player option)
Chandler $2,130,481

that totals to a lot more than $28 million... plus you forgot to factor in the salaries of D Lee, Balkman, Mardy, Nate & Morris, who may or may not be a part of this team then... even if we let all 5 of those kids walk for nothing, we still aren't under the cap enough dollars to make a max offer to Lebron... this is why i hated the Zach trade... it doesn't do much to help us now, & it pretty much FUKKS us down the road as well.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-27-2007 10:27 PM]


Ahhhhh The Zach trade a gift that keeps on giving.


You also have to factor if EY will want and extension maybe prior to his PO yr, draft pick salaries, and possible FA's signed with MLE,VME,LLE before that time. Fans are funny acting as if everything as is is set in stone for the next 2yrs with I SAY UGH at the helm. Not gonna happen folks. And make no mistake about it this team will do whatever it takes to make the playoffs as an 8th seed every yr before Bron is a FA even if that means eating into our cap, going well over it, eliminating almost all possible chances of signing him outright. We have zero chance to sign him taking our market out of the equation.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Solace
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11/28/2007  2:35 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by FireIsiah:

Lebron can opt out in 2 years so for the 2010 season he will be available. Steph, Q, Malik,Jerome James and Nate are all off the books. We only have 29 mill on the books for 2010.

Zach $17,333,333
Curry $11,276,863 (player option)
Jamal $10,080,000
Jefferies $6,883,400 (player option)
Chandler $2,130,481

that totals to a lot more than $28 million... plus you forgot to factor in the salaries of D Lee, Balkman, Mardy, Nate & Morris, who may or may not be a part of this team then... even if we let all 5 of those kids walk for nothing, we still aren't under the cap enough dollars to make a max offer to Lebron... this is why i hated the Zach trade... it doesn't do much to help us now, & it pretty much FUKKS us down the road as well.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-27-2007 10:27 PM]


Ahhhhh The Zach trade a gift that keeps on giving.


You also have to factor if EY will want and extension maybe prior to his PO yr, draft pick salaries, and possible FA's signed with MLE,VME,LLE before that time. Fans are funny acting as if everything as is is set in stone for the next 2yrs with I SAY UGH at the helm. Not gonna happen folks. And make no mistake about it this team will do whatever it takes to make the playoffs as an 8th seed every yr before Bron is a FA even if that means eating into our cap, going well over it, eliminating almost all possible chances of signing him outright. We have zero chance to sign him taking our market out of the equation.

Agreed. Us having the cap room in 2010 was questionable BEFORE the Zach trade. The main reason being that we have a bunch of youth and we're not just going to let all of them go for free. With Zach, the question is answered. We won't be under the cap. LeBron can't count for 9 roster spots and this team will never accept only paying four or five guys big bucks and having the rest on minimum contracts.
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SupremeCommander
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11/28/2007  3:23 AM
I don't understand why he isn't the Cavs' PG. Imagine the mismatches.
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Solace
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11/28/2007  9:44 AM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

I don't understand why he isn't the Cavs' PG. Imagine the mismatches.

Same reason why Sprewell was less effective at PG (for the few times we tried it). It was a great strategy in Dreamcast games, but when it was tried for real, those mismatches went both ways.
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JohnWallace44
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11/28/2007  10:20 AM
If you think LBJ is going to be signed in something other than a sign and trade you are fooling yourself.
Cleveland is going to make sure that they get back something for him without a doubt.
We're better off just continuing to draft talented players.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Nalod
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11/28/2007  12:23 PM
Posted by firefly:

Here's an interesting question.

If Oscar Robertson was so amazing, why is he not widely acknowledged as the best ballplayer ever, instead of Michael?

Now, I never saw the Big O play, but you can't average double digit assists every season without being a team leader. His offensive output was obviously amazing, and he could board like Kareem.

Is it the aggressive winner thing?

And is it the same reason why Kobe is widely recognized as the best ballplayer in the league, not LeBron?


The Big O played in an era where NBA was not a top tier league. Pro ball was not huge in the day as Baseball and football was.

He went to the Univ. of Cincy and played his proball there until traded to Mil in 1971 season.
He was only about 32 then but that was old for a player then when they did not have anything like knee scopes and if you did your acl you were retired. Nobody ever came back from that.

Cincy was not a good team in a league dominated by Wilt and the Celtics in that era.

And he won his first ring with "Lou Alcinder" so he was second fiddle on that one.

He had no national endorsemnt deals to speak of where JOrdan WAS the posterboy for endorsemnts in the modern era. Jordan won in college, olympics (so did oscar bTW but it was expected)and every playoff game by the bulls was in prime time! If wilt played today with the kind of dominence he had he would be the biggest celeberty in pro sports. Bigger than anyone.

Another moster of the era was bob petit. Look up his numbers, they were crazy!
TheloniusMonk
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11/28/2007  12:31 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by firefly:

Here's an interesting question.

If Oscar Robertson was so amazing, why is he not widely acknowledged as the best ballplayer ever, instead of Michael?

Now, I never saw the Big O play, but you can't average double digit assists every season without being a team leader. His offensive output was obviously amazing, and he could board like Kareem.

Is it the aggressive winner thing?

And is it the same reason why Kobe is widely recognized as the best ballplayer in the league, not LeBron?


The Big O played in an era where NBA was not a top tier league. Pro ball was not huge in the day as Baseball and football was.

He went to the Univ. of Cincy and played his proball there until traded to Mil in 1971 season.
He was only about 32 then but that was old for a player then when they did not have anything like knee scopes and if you did your acl you were retired. Nobody ever came back from that.

Cincy was not a good team in a league dominated by Wilt and the Celtics in that era.

And he won his first ring with "Lou Alcinder" so he was second fiddle on that one.

He had no national endorsemnt deals to speak of where JOrdan WAS the posterboy for endorsemnts in the modern era. Jordan won in college, olympics (so did oscar bTW but it was expected)and every playoff game by the bulls was in prime time! If wilt played today with the kind of dominence he had he would be the biggest celeberty in pro sports. Bigger than anyone.

Another moster of the era was bob petit. Look up his numbers, they were crazy!

When asked who was the greatest of all time Kareem said Oscar. He said Oscar was good for a longer time than other guys. He was one of the great highschool ballers in the history of the sport. Great in college. Great in the NBA.

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TheloniusMonk
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11/28/2007  2:13 PM
Also, Oscar was past his prime once he got with Lew Alcindor. So of course Alcindor was the man at that point. Oscar wasn't able to do it alone. That's true. But has anyone done it alone? He needed another top 50 player of all time to make it happen with. So did Jordan. Even superstars need help. Ask Bird, Isiah, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, West, Russell and even Kareem himself. Oscar got his help in Alcindor. But of course at that point Alcindor was Tim Duncan and the big O was David Robinson.
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SupremeCommander
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11/28/2007  2:35 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

I don't understand why he isn't the Cavs' PG. Imagine the mismatches.

Same reason why Sprewell was less effective at PG (for the few times we tried it). It was a great strategy in Dreamcast games, but when it was tried for real, those mismatches went both ways.

You just compared Spreewell to LBJ?

The ball is LBJ's hands at pretty much all times regardless and he has the size, speed, and skill to dominate the position.
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TMS
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11/28/2007  3:59 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

If you think LBJ is going to be signed in something other than a sign and trade you are fooling yourself.
Cleveland is going to make sure that they get back something for him without a doubt.
We're better off just continuing to draft talented players.

i'm sure the Cavs will be falling all over themselves to grab Zach Randolph when those talks happen.
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BasketballJones
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11/28/2007  4:19 PM
I didn't even know Lyndon Johnson played basketball. You learn something new every day.
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TMS
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11/28/2007  4:24 PM
^ Communist
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JohnWallace44
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11/29/2007  12:32 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

If you think LBJ is going to be signed in something other than a sign and trade you are fooling yourself.
Cleveland is going to make sure that they get back something for him without a doubt.
We're better off just continuing to draft talented players.

i'm sure the Cavs will be falling all over themselves to grab Zach Randolph when those talks happen.

i'm just saying you don't tank for that specific reason
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
TMS
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11/29/2007  12:46 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

If you think LBJ is going to be signed in something other than a sign and trade you are fooling yourself.
Cleveland is going to make sure that they get back something for him without a doubt.
We're better off just continuing to draft talented players.

i'm sure the Cavs will be falling all over themselves to grab Zach Randolph when those talks happen.

i'm just saying you don't tank for that specific reason

the way i look at it is we would have had a much better chance of longterm success by just standing pat & not taking on Zach's contract than we are now... it's a subjective statement, but i just don't see how we're in a better position to compete w/his contract on our books when the issue of team balance still hasn't been addressed... Isiah seriously needs to consider trading Curry or D Lee to get someone who can play alongside Zach effectively & make a real impact on this team... even if Lebron isn't within our grasp, at least we could have been in a position to be within reach of some cap flexibility to pursue other deals in a couple years... we're looking at being a mediocre team while wait as it is... what has Isiah really accomplished other than giving the Blazers huge cap relief?
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Marv
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11/29/2007  7:54 AM
Posted by firefly:

Here's an interesting question.

If Oscar Robertson was so amazing, why is he not widely acknowledged as the best ballplayer ever, instead of Michael?

Now, I never saw the Big O play, but you can't average double digit assists every season without being a team leader. His offensive output was obviously amazing, and he could board like Kareem.

Is it the aggressive winner thing?

And is it the same reason why Kobe is widely recognized as the best ballplayer in the league, not LeBron?

for the same reason that bill russell isn't acknowledged as the greatest player ever - people forget how good the 60's players were. best period of hoop ever imo.

i'd rate jordan. the big o and russell as tied for the greatest ever.

people forget how unbelievable elgin baylor was. jerry west.

in fact, i'd say that over the last 35 years,, the only players that have ranked up with the best of the 60's (west, baylor, rusell, robertson, petit, havlicek, chamberlain) are larry, magic, michael, clyde, erving, jabbar and duncan.
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