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Jamal not driving to the hoop anymore?: Someone needs to reconsider this decision
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codeunknown
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12/1/2007  2:02 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Jamal is the missing link. We need him and if Q was added to the equation, this would be a very good team. I can't tell if it was something Isiah said to Jamal that made him stop attacking or if it's just him. I have the feeling that it was something that Isiah said that made him feel that he needed to look for the bigs early and often and that has had him playing with a lack of aggression.

We need our guards to be aggressive. Steph, Jamal, Q and Nate. Fred Jones was aggressive on both ends and it made a huge difference. I think Isiah makes a mistake in thinking that all we have to do now is dump it down. Yeah we need our bigs to score, but they're not passing bigs and all this does is make our offense come to a stop. Let Jamal loose but with an attack the basket mentality. Last night Isiah called Jamal's number and it paid off. We need him to stay in that mindset. Just like the 1st 3 games.

The infamous 1st 3 games. Who can forget those.
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Cosmic
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12/1/2007  2:30 PM
Posted by Anji:

I think No would have been easier.

We won, JC was basically the offense in the forth, He did a good job guard Mo taylor and Bell. He did a good job guarding Redd, making him make alot of tough shots(The only damn thing Q does and gets handed jobbed by alot of knicks fans around here for doing). 42 percent for the game is bad now??? Who cares what he started out as, are we judging games in halves now??? Hope you tell that too alot of the scorers around the league that shoot that percentage day in and out orstart out slow....

Yeah it would just be easier to say no, I can't look at the win and the game as a whole. Then read from page 18 or 28, I forget where the I hate JC mantra starts in the text.

[Edited by - Anji on 12-01-2007 1:44 PM]

Here is the problem. We want to win a lot of games. We want to be a contending team.

Jamal Crawford is as inconsistent and unreliable as they come yet he starts at and plays big minutes at a very important position.

He is not going to change. We will never be the team we want to be with Jamal Crawford being relied upon to carry us.


If you want to live in a single moment of time yes he did have a nice fourth quarter. If you want to live in a longer period of time the guy had a horrible first half and his "game winning" display came against a team that absolutely collapsed down the stretch. It's a microcosm of his entire career and what his teams look like.

We need more consistent players and more well rounded players if we're going to win a lot of games be it now, next year, or whenever. Jamal Crawford does not fit any of that criteria and he harms us far more often than he helps us.

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VDesai
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12/5/2007  10:08 PM
We lost to the Suns, but beat the Nets. So now our record when Jamal gets 6 FT attempts or more is 36-27.
kam77
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12/6/2007  1:08 AM
Posted by VDesai:

We lost to the Suns, but beat the Nets. So now our record when Jamal gets 6 FT attempts or more is 36-27.

How many games has Craw played as a Knick? I'd like to know so that we'd see what the W/L record is when he doesn't get 6 or more.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
kam77
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12/6/2007  1:12 AM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by VDesai:

We lost to the Suns, but beat the Nets. So now our record when Jamal gets 6 FT attempts or more is 36-27.

How many games has Craw played as a Knick? I'd like to know so that we'd see what the W/L record is when he doesn't get 6 or more.

Nevermind, its 224. So in the 161 knicks games Jamal hasn't gone to the line 6 or more times, what's their W/L record?



lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Ira
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12/6/2007  5:25 AM
Craw is definitely a better player when he takes it to the hoop. He's also a better player at the end of the fourth quarter.
VDesai
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12/6/2007  9:07 AM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by VDesai:

We lost to the Suns, but beat the Nets. So now our record when Jamal gets 6 FT attempts or more is 36-27.

How many games has Craw played as a Knick? I'd like to know so that we'd see what the W/L record is when he doesn't get 6 or more.

Nevermind, its 224. So in the 161 knicks games Jamal hasn't gone to the line 6 or more times, what's their W/L record?


Well 224 I assume to be subtracting the games he was injured. I don't have enough time to go through the logs to find out what our W/L was in those games. But using a quick and dirty method that's not too hard to figure out- the Knicks are 6-11 now, 33-49 his first year, 23-59 his second year and 33-49 last year. So thats a record of 95-158. Subtract the 36 wins and 27 losses- That's an abysmal 59-131 in games that Craw didn't play or didn't go to the line at least 6 times.

A winning percentage of .571 vs. .310
nixluva
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12/6/2007  10:00 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by nixluva:

Jamal is the missing link. We need him and if Q was added to the equation, this would be a very good team. I can't tell if it was something Isiah said to Jamal that made him stop attacking or if it's just him. I have the feeling that it was something that Isiah said that made him feel that he needed to look for the bigs early and often and that has had him playing with a lack of aggression.

We need our guards to be aggressive. Steph, Jamal, Q and Nate. Fred Jones was aggressive on both ends and it made a huge difference. I think Isiah makes a mistake in thinking that all we have to do now is dump it down. Yeah we need our bigs to score, but they're not passing bigs and all this does is make our offense come to a stop. Let Jamal loose but with an attack the basket mentality. Last night Isiah called Jamal's number and it paid off. We need him to stay in that mindset. Just like the 1st 3 games.

The infamous 1st 3 games. Who can forget those.

We mention the 1st 3 games because that is a perfect example of how Jamal should play all the time. I believe that he had some outside reason for changing that aggressive style. Either by design Isiah said something to him or perhaps it was hesistance due to bad carrying calls from the officials or maybe both, but something seemed to have crept into his mind that took away his aggressiveness. He has recently started to regain that attacking style and I believe that's something he can and will do for this team more often the rest of the way.

He's streaky player so I don't expect him to be like Ray Allen and shoot great every night, but if on most nights he plays aggressively he'll get to the line and he'll have a positive impact on the games.
VDesai
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12/6/2007  10:05 AM
The key might just be playing the point. For reference, see last night or down the stretch under Larry Brown. Put the ball in his hand and ask him to create- he complies and is much more agressive going into the lane.
K22
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12/6/2007  10:09 AM
Posted by VDesai:

The key might just be playing the point. For reference, see last night or down the stretch under Larry Brown. Put the ball in his hand and ask him to create- he complies and is much more agressive going into the lane.

Indeed. Say what you will about him, but he always does what he's asked to do.
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
nixluva
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12/6/2007  10:13 AM
Posted by VDesai:

The key might just be playing the point. For reference, see last night or down the stretch under Larry Brown. Put the ball in his hand and ask him to create- he complies and is much more agressive going into the lane.
Clearly he has to have his mind in the game. If he's just out there floating his game suffers. He needs to be totally involved and being at the point for good stretches of the game does seem to make him better. I get the sense that he's not a cerebral player, but more of an instinct guy, but those instincts are sharp when he's totally involved in the gameplan and focused. This get's back to my opinion that Isiah's decision to just dump it into Eddy or Zach at all costs is a huge mistake. It takes the guards out of the game and makes them spectators. The right way to do this is to have the guards lead the action and let the bigs feed off of that. We seem to get more assists when we play that way and better overall play. If Isiah doesn't see this by now then we're doomed. He can't be that dense. How can you not notice how much better things go when we play with our guards being more active?
kam77
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12/6/2007  10:51 AM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by VDesai:

We lost to the Suns, but beat the Nets. So now our record when Jamal gets 6 FT attempts or more is 36-27.

How many games has Craw played as a Knick? I'd like to know so that we'd see what the W/L record is when he doesn't get 6 or more.

Nevermind, its 224. So in the 161 knicks games Jamal hasn't gone to the line 6 or more times, what's their W/L record?


Well 224 I assume to be subtracting the games he was injured. I don't have enough time to go through the logs to find out what our W/L was in those games. But using a quick and dirty method that's not too hard to figure out- the Knicks are 6-11 now, 33-49 his first year, 23-59 his second year and 33-49 last year. So thats a record of 95-158. Subtract the 36 wins and 27 losses- That's an abysmal 59-131 in games that Craw didn't play or didn't go to the line at least 6 times.

A winning percentage of .571 vs. .310

Yes, but Crawford has missed 12, 3, and 23 games in the previous three seasons. So when Craw plays, and he gets less than 6 FTs what is the teams win %?

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
VDesai
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12/6/2007  11:23 AM
You know, you can look up our won/loss record in games he was hurt too...

I'll give it a look if I have some time later today, but the record will likely be better, but not that much better...
VDesai
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12/6/2007  12:05 PM
We're 14-24 in the games he didn't play:

So here are the records:

No Crawford: 14-24 .368
Craw, but <6 FT attempts: 83-134 .377
Craw, but >=6 FT attempts: 36-27 .571

[Edited by - vdesai on 12-06-2007 12:10 PM]
martin
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12/6/2007  2:39 PM
Posted by VDesai:

We're 14-24 in the games he didn't play:

So here are the records:

No Crawford: 14-24 .368
Craw, but <6 FT attempts: 83-134 .377
Craw, but >=6 FT attempts: 36-27 .571

[Edited by - vdesai on 12-06-2007 12:10 PM]

oh wow, that's telling.
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Ira
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12/6/2007  3:22 PM
Posted by VDesai:

We're 14-24 in the games he didn't play:

So here are the records:

No Crawford: 14-24 .368
Craw, but <6 FT attempts: 83-134 .377
Craw, but >=6 FT attempts: 36-27 .571

[Edited by - vdesai on 12-06-2007 12:10 PM]


Saw Craw has no effect on winning when he primarily shoots outside, but when he drives, he makes us a winner. Sounds like a simple solution to our problems.
JonsTintedTails
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12/6/2007  3:36 PM
That's why this forum and its members are the best because you can find out the stats. Proves a good point.
kam77
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12/6/2007  3:55 PM
Posted by VDesai:

We're 14-24 in the games he didn't play:

So here are the records:

No Crawford: 14-24 .368
Craw, but <6 FT attempts: 83-134 .377
Craw, but >=6 FT attempts: 36-27 .571

[Edited by - vdesai on 12-06-2007 12:10 PM]

Excellent breakdown V.

Now, the response from some quarters is: "Maybe Jamal gets more FTs when the Knicks play worse teams, which would also account for the better record."

So, VDesai... do you know? Can you account for the strength of the opponent in those games we went 36-27 with Jamal shooting 6 times or more? To play Devil's advocate, what if those 36 wins were all against non-playoff teams and the 27 losses were to playoff teams. In that scenario, Jamals FT attempts are totally irrelevant.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
VDesai
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12/6/2007  4:08 PM
That's significantly beyond the scope of what I can do quick and dirty with Yahoo game logs and Excel.

Plus I think most guys would gladly take beating a lot of non-playoff teams. Beating all the non-playoff teams would not only get you into the playoffs, it'd get you a pretty good record.
nixluva
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12/6/2007  5:21 PM
The strength of the opponent hasn't seemed to matter from my recollection. No guard can stop him when he want's to get in the paint and we have too many other good players for teams to focus on Jamal. This is why he's so key.

It appeared to me last year before he got injured that he was starting to recognize his role for this team and he started off this year the same as he left off. He changed up drastically and I think that it had nothing to do with the opposing defense and everything to do with Jamal's state of mind. Who can know if it's in his head or if he was directed to change up, but it's clear as day that we win when he is aggressively attacking and creating offense for this team.

So now we can just kill all this noise from those here who keep trying to make it sound like the whole team sucks. It's clear that we get enough from our bigs and the game usually hinges on what kind of production we get from our guards. When they play well we're a serious threat, otherwise we look like garbage. Jamal, Q, Steph, Jones and Nate all factor in and in our wins we've gotten good production from those guys or at least some of them to go along with the our bigs.
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