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Daily News: Could Van Gundy Return To Knicks?
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Klytus
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11/23/2007  1:34 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

Man what do you guys think of Rick Carlisle? I always felt he was a very underappreciated coach. If Isiah is eventually fired, I think Rick would be a good candidate. He seems to instill order and is a no nonsense kind of guy.

carlisle is a defensive coach. this is not a defensive team. it would be another mismatch.

That's the problem. What Coach is right for THIS team? None. They quit on Larry Brown and are quitting on their buddy Isiah Thomas. You don't hire the next GM or Coach based on how he fits with THESE players. The next GM and Coach will end up trading the majority of the roster because there is no way you can win with THESE players.
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fishmike
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11/23/2007  1:57 PM
Carlisle is an excellent coach and I agree you with you nix, but without the GM to back him he will be going through the same gyrations Larry went through in a matter of weeks.

I dont see the coach as the problem. We have had 6 coaches under Isiah.. the result is always the same. Poor effort, poor execution, poor defense, poor effort.

There needs to be a purge of these players, and thats probably going to be an ugly process that people wont agree with, because in most deals we will NOT get equal talent back.

But we MUST have guys in here that play hard and work hard before we can win. I dont see JVG as GM being the right move. I would much rather see Walsh or Colengelo come in.

This is such a disaster however I am open to anything and will be patient, just as I was with Isiah initially.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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11/23/2007  2:07 PM
we're looking at a possible 3-4 year process (thanks isiah) unless we get very lucky in the draft.
BlueSeats
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11/23/2007  2:42 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

we're looking at a possible 3-4 year process (thanks isiah) unless we get very lucky in the draft.


I agree. It's going to be a long time before we are significant again.

This draft is important. First off, we still owe a first rounder for the Marbury trade. Then we may have to give up a pick to unload some bad players. We also know there will be no real rebuild because they'll use the presence of Eddy and Zach to justify adding pieces, in the same way the presence of Houston was used to justify the addition of Marbury. To address the leadership vacuum they'll go hard at someone who's done well elsewhere, (perhaps a Richard Jefferson) who, under the harsh lights of MSG and out from under the wing of Kidd, will suffer here.

There will be some new faces, but the strategy will be the same. But without the turmoil I suppose the mediocrity we've all been clamoring for will finally be attainable. We'll have some 42 wins seasons, with an inflated payroll and no high draft picks, which should be enough to assure we never get the premium caliber talent we need.

Thank goodness Isiah and Marbury have the foresight to give us the chance for a good draft this year.
SupremeCommander
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11/23/2007  3:00 PM
I think the Knicks will get lucky in the draft. This draft is loaded with talented players, assuming all the freshman declare. If there was a year to suck, this is it. Between guys like Derrick Rose, OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley, Eric Gordon, DeAndre Jordan, Kosta Koufos, Kevin Love, Donte Green and others, there are a lot of young potential studs available. That doesn't even factor in my sophomore man crush Chase Budinger.

If the Knicks are smart and dismantle their team for picks I do think this can turn around faster than if the Knicks were in this position in 2005.

The trick here is to ensure the team is horrible this year and next year and when the team is forced to relinquish its pick to Utah, the team is in position to improve by virtue of its young players improving.

Anyway, I'd suggest that y'all do what I'm doing and not watch the Knicks, but rather watch NCAA hoops. The NBA draft is the only thing this Knicks fans has to look forward to this year.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
holfresh
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11/23/2007  4:01 PM

It very difficult for me to believe Dolan would take him back...Dolan is not like Steinberner...Dolan is a loyalty driven guy, he takes being left high abd dry very personally...

[Edited by - holfresh on 11-23-2007 4:02 PM]
TMS
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11/23/2007  5:13 PM
to hell w/VG... he quit on this team & his offense consisted either of dumping the ball into Ewing & everyone else standing around twiddling their thumbs (much as we have now), or everyone standing on the perimeter & going 1 on 1 (much as we have now)... we need a creative offensive mind, someone who will bring motion, backcuts, creative screen & rolls, etc... anyone out there that fits the bill?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
NYKresurrection
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11/23/2007  7:11 PM
Paul Silas
GOD arose JESUS from the grave !!! Isiah arose the Knicks from their grave !!!
4949
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11/23/2007  7:14 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I know Van Gundy left us high and dry, but that guy is a good coach. I'd welcome him back, atleast he knows what the hell he's doing out there.

Dude, he's my favorite of all the coaches I've seen. He left, because he saw what was coming. And as you can see, he was right in leaving.
I'll never trust this' team again.
s3231
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11/23/2007  7:17 PM
Van Gundy wouldn't be a good fit for us right now. Hell, as others pointed out, coaching really isn't the problem for us. Instead of wasting money on some of the big coaches out there, I would be satisfied giving the job to Herb for 2-3 seasons while we rebuild this team.

[Edited by - s3231 on 11-23-2007 7:17 PM]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
4949
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11/23/2007  7:17 PM
Posted by playa2:

Are you kidding me ?


This guy was only able to excel because of Pat Riley (who he piggy backed) and Patrick Ewing who helped him get the job.

He always had a vetern team who already understood the game and they were committed as athletes. Vandummy was in the right place at the right time.

He fooled many , but not me.

Jeff's only skill in coaching is on defense, like a Dick Harter type never a head coach.

What has he done outside of NY?

Houston gave vandummy the boot and hired Rick Adelman what is that telling you.

I would hire stan vangundy before I hire jeff.

OMG! Clueless here! Okay eveyone. Let's make playa happy and forget about Van Gundy, Pat Riley, West and all the rest. Let's just hire Herb Williams to be coach, GM and President. Or better worse? Let's just keep suckbury and Isiah on this team til the end. playa? Come on man!!!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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11/23/2007  7:20 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Carlisle would be the best hire as coach.

Rick's already said he'd not jockey for the position, because of his friend Isiah. That right there should tell you something.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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11/23/2007  7:31 PM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by martin:
Posted by playa2:

Are you kidding me ?

...

What has he done outside of NY?

Houston gave vandummy the boot and hired Rick Adelman what is that telling you.

He did get to the playoffs with Stevie Francis as his starting PG. And now Stevie can't even get minutes in part II at Houston.

And what did that do? Chaney got the knicks in the playoffs with Stephon Marbury as his pg and steph was told to go home by isiah.

Dude, your talking about peanuts here. Your dealing in 'peanut argument'. The talk of suckbury and franchise making the playoffs is a joke.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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11/23/2007  7:32 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

Man what do you guys think of Rick Carlisle? I always felt he was a very underappreciated coach. If Isiah is eventually fired, I think Rick would be a good candidate. He seems to instill order and is a no nonsense kind of guy.

carlisle is a defensive coach. this is not a defensive team. it would be another mismatch.

No matter who the next coach is, this team needs to be dismantled. There's no such thing as a match for this group of "players".

If you think that it's just a matter of finding a coach for this group to get them to win, you're sadly mistaken.

It's a start.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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11/23/2007  7:36 PM
Posted by Klytus:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

Man what do you guys think of Rick Carlisle? I always felt he was a very underappreciated coach. If Isiah is eventually fired, I think Rick would be a good candidate. He seems to instill order and is a no nonsense kind of guy.

carlisle is a defensive coach. this is not a defensive team. it would be another mismatch.

That's the problem. What Coach is right for THIS team? None. They quit on Larry Brown and are quitting on their buddy Isiah Thomas. You don't hire the next GM or Coach based on how he fits with THESE players. The next GM and Coach will end up trading the majority of the roster because there is no way you can win with THESE players.

Think of it this way. Isiah is a volcano, Larry Brown was a volcano. suckbury is a faultline. When the faultline shakes, then the two volcanos become active and uneasy. Isiah is the bigger picture. suckbury is simply a player, who has a big mouth. It's the perfect 'catch-22'.

The rest of the team is stuck in between all this. If you take away the volcano, then there's on eruption. I say another coach can' guide this team. No distractions.

[Edited by - 4949 on 11-23-2007 7:38 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
martin
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11/23/2007  7:49 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by nyk4ever:

I know Van Gundy left us high and dry, but that guy is a good coach. I'd welcome him back, atleast he knows what the hell he's doing out there.

Dude, he's my favorite of all the coaches I've seen. He left, because he saw what was coming. And as you can see, he was right in leaving.

i kinda agree with this.
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TMS
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11/23/2007  8:11 PM
a lot of coaches know what they're doing out there... VG had teams w/HOF talent like Ewing, Yao & T-Mac & except for the '99 Knicks who barely squeaked into the playoffs as an 8th seed that year, never made it to an NBA Finals, has coached only 1 divisional champion, & has a career postseason W-L % of .500... i think he's severely overrated as a head coach.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-23-2007 5:12 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
4949
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11/23/2007  8:22 PM
The same can be said for Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and a few others. The most important thing about him though is, he's credible. We need that right now. And if we are just a few moves away from making this at least a .500 team, then you have the perfect coach for that.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TMS
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11/23/2007  8:43 PM
Posted by 4949:

The same can be said for Phil Jackson, Pat Riley...

it can?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
4949
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11/23/2007  8:55 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by 4949:

The same can be said for Phil Jackson, Pat Riley...

it can?

Well, you said Van Gundy had HofF talent. I"m assuming you mean he's been successful because of it. And without it, he's overrated?
I'll never trust this' team again.
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