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The reason Isiah isn't gone yet?..Knicks made 500,000,0000 last year...
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Andrew
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11/19/2007  3:47 PM
holfresh, what point are you trying to make with the latest article you posted. It wasn't clear to me.
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VDesai
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11/19/2007  3:48 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Andrew:

Operating income from last year was -39 Mil. Rick is on drugs.

This from the Knicks Forbes report.

Operating Income:

These figures are quarterly figures compared to results a year ago...

So 1.5 bil in revenue is a 3rd quarter revenue figure not and annual figure...



Hol- 1.5 billion is Cablevision's revenue figure. As I posted earlier, the Garden accounted for $135 mil of that. But the Garden includes A LOT more than the Knicks.
crzymdups
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11/19/2007  3:49 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Heres what I don't get about Dolan.

Dolan is obviously a businessman and as a businessman shouldn't he want his business to be worth as much as it possibly can?

Right now the Knicks, while in this neverending loop of mediocrity, could be worth so much more money if they were actually good and a winning franchise. Couple that with all the money that is being wasted by Isiah Thomas and the blackeye the company sustained with Annucha lawsuit, shouldn't Dolan be in an absolute hurry to hire a qualified guy like Colangelo or West to make one of his assets worth more money?

Dolan isn't really a business man. He was put in the position by his father and he's failing miserably at it.
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djsunyc
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11/19/2007  3:50 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Heres what I don't get about Dolan.

Dolan is obviously a businessman and as a businessman shouldn't he want his business to be worth as much as it possibly can?

Right now the Knicks, while in this neverending loop of mediocrity, could be worth so much more money if they were actually good and a winning franchise. Couple that with all the money that is being wasted by Isiah Thomas and the blackeye the company sustained with Annucha lawsuit, shouldn't Dolan be in an absolute hurry to hire a qualified guy like Colangelo or West to make one of his assets worth more money?

this only matters if the knicks are viewed as a highly valued commodity within cablevision ranks. if the knicks make 1-2% of all cablevision profits, then i don't see how cablevision would care about bad press. ANY press is good press and ticket sales are not suffering.
nyk4ever
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11/19/2007  3:51 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Heres what I don't get about Dolan.

Dolan is obviously a businessman and as a businessman shouldn't he want his business to be worth as much as it possibly can?

Right now the Knicks, while in this neverending loop of mediocrity, could be worth so much more money if they were actually good and a winning franchise. Couple that with all the money that is being wasted by Isiah Thomas and the blackeye the company sustained with Annucha lawsuit, shouldn't Dolan be in an absolute hurry to hire a qualified guy like Colangelo or West to make one of his assets worth more money?

Dolan isn't really a business man. He was put in the position by his father and he's failing miserably at it.

No doubt Crzy. But for this instance, he's *deemed* a businessman. I mean shouldnt anyone want whatever their overseeing to be worth as much as possible?
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Queeniepop
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11/19/2007  3:52 PM
Madison Square Garden, though owned by Cablevision, is a separate business entity. CABLEVISION made all of the money. Doesn't mean the Garden is not profitable, but it means THE PARENT COMPANY is the reason for the spike in profits. Also, there are the Rangers and over 100 concerts there as well.

How much do all of you know about season tickets? Let's put it this way...your team salary is supposed to be covered by the revenues generated by subscriptions. For example, season ticket revenues are $60M, which means payroll should be $60M. I believe our payroll is close to $110M plus $55M in luxury tax. That's roughly double. Therefore, you need a lucrative parent company and other business at the venue to cover all of this.

That is why it is VERY difficult to have a "mom & pop" owned team. Cuban may own the Mavs but he has a very lucrative media biz to bankroll it. Steinbrenner's riches come from the shipbuilding industry.
Andrew
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11/19/2007  3:52 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Hol- 1.5 billion is Cablevision's revenue figure. As I posted earlier, the Garden accounted for $135 mil of that. But the Garden includes A LOT more than the Knicks.

Add to that, revenue is not profit. When you factor in the players salaries, lux tax, operating expenses then you get profit (or Net Income). Knicks lost money in 06.

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holfresh
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11/19/2007  3:52 PM
Posted by Andrew:

holfresh, what point are you trying to make with the latest article you posted. It wasn't clear to me.

Posting the article from Forbes for everyone could read...their revenue was 1.5 bil on the quarter, their losses was due to retiring debt and investments which is a one off charge...
nyk4ever
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11/19/2007  3:52 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Heres what I don't get about Dolan.

Dolan is obviously a businessman and as a businessman shouldn't he want his business to be worth as much as it possibly can?

Right now the Knicks, while in this neverending loop of mediocrity, could be worth so much more money if they were actually good and a winning franchise. Couple that with all the money that is being wasted by Isiah Thomas and the blackeye the company sustained with Annucha lawsuit, shouldn't Dolan be in an absolute hurry to hire a qualified guy like Colangelo or West to make one of his assets worth more money?

this only matters if the knicks are viewed as a highly valued commodity within cablevision ranks. if the knicks make 1-2% of all cablevision profits, then i don't see how cablevision would care about bad press. ANY press is good press and ticket sales are not suffering.

I guess so. I don't know.. if it were me, I'd want a sports team I own to be worth as much as it possibly could. I guess I'm a sportsfan and Jimmy isnt.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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11/19/2007  3:57 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Andrew:

Operating income from last year was -39 Mil. Rick is on drugs.

This from the Knicks Forbes report.

Operating Income:

These figures are quarterly figures compared to results a year ago...

So 1.5 bil in revenue is a 3rd quarter revenue figure not and annual figure...



Hol- 1.5 billion is Cablevision's revenue figure. As I posted earlier, the Garden accounted for $135 mil of that. But the Garden includes A LOT more than the Knicks.

Who is arguing with you???...

P.S. Garden figures are not only made up of the Knicks...





[Edited by - holfresh on 11-19-2007 3:58 PM]
VDesai
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11/19/2007  3:58 PM
No one's arguing with you. No one knows what you're trying to say.
Andrew
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11/19/2007  4:00 PM
Would you like me to change your title to...

The reason Isiah isn't gone yet?..Knicks Lost 39 Million last year...
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Bonn1997
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11/19/2007  4:02 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Heres what I don't get about Dolan.

Dolan is obviously a businessman and as a businessman shouldn't he want his business to be worth as much as it possibly can?

Right now the Knicks, while in this neverending loop of mediocrity, could be worth so much more money if they were actually good and a winning franchise. Couple that with all the money that is being wasted by Isiah Thomas and the blackeye the company sustained with Annucha lawsuit, shouldn't Dolan be in an absolute hurry to hire a qualified guy like Colangelo or West to make one of his assets worth more money?
Doing that would require taking several steps backward first and losing more money. Guys like Zach and Eddy can bring in enough money to satisfy Dolan. A corporation is not going to look to lose money now just to make more 3 to 5 years from now when Knick rebuilding is successful. Cablevision has shareholders throughout the world to answer to RIGHT NOW--shareholders throughout the world who couldn't possibly care about the Knicks winning in 3 to 5 years.
holfresh
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11/19/2007  4:03 PM
Posted by VDesai:

No one's arguing with you. No one knows what you're trying to say.

I posted the article for informational purposes...thats it....I wanted to point out the revenues for the quarter and the charge....Basically I'm saying the annual revenue could be as much as 6 bil..who know what component of the is the Knicks...Not looking at profit...I know the difference...
Bonn1997
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11/19/2007  4:03 PM
Posted by Andrew:

Would you like me to change your title to...

The reason Isiah isn't gone yet?..Knicks Lost 39 Million last year...
That's probably why Isiah will be gone soon. And someone else who can stir things up and bring in instant cash will be brought in.
holfresh
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11/19/2007  4:04 PM
Posted by Andrew:

Would you like me to change your title to...

The reason Isiah isn't gone yet?..Knicks Lost 39 Million last year...

How do you know what the Knicks' revenue or profit is if the Garden is made up of the Rangers, Concerts, Knicks, the Circus etc???



[Edited by - holfresh on 11-19-2007 4:05 PM]
VDesai
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11/19/2007  4:10 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by VDesai:

No one's arguing with you. No one knows what you're trying to say.

I posted the article for informational purposes...thats it....I wanted to point out the revenues for the quarter and the charge....Basically I'm saying the annual revenue could be as much as 6 bil..who know what component of the is the Knicks...Not looking at profit...I know the difference...



Okay, it wasn't clear, b/c your original position was that the Knicks made $500 mil last year. I thought you were still trying to support that.
Andrew
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11/19/2007  4:10 PM
Posted by holfresh:

How do you know what the Knicks' revenue or profit is if the Garden is made up of the Rangers, Concerts, Knicks, the Circus etc???

The Knicks numbers were in the Forbes link that BasketballJones posted.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/32/biz_06nba_New-York-Knicks_328815.html

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holfresh
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11/19/2007  4:23 PM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by holfresh:

How do you know what the Knicks' revenue or profit is if the Garden is made up of the Rangers, Concerts, Knicks, the Circus etc???

The Knicks numbers were in the Forbes link that BasketballJones posted.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/32/biz_06nba_New-York-Knicks_328815.html

OK...I stand corrected although those numbers are from 05-06....It would be pretty far fetched for the Knicks to have revenue close 600 mil year on year after a yr of 185 mil to enable of profit margin of 500 mil...You are right....

P.S. If Rick turns out to be right you and DVas will be hearing from me....

[Edited by - holfresh on 11-19-2007 4:27 PM]
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