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OT: Det and Lakers Agreed To Kobe Trade?
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Bonn1997
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11/16/2007  5:52 AM
Caron was a Laker teammate of Kobe and is relevant to how good a support cast Kobe's had post-Shaq. I think you're greatly overvaluing the importance of low post scoring, especially if the guy is as inefficient and turnover prone as Zach. It's not like his low-post scoring makes his teammates better. I guarantee the Lakers would get much more in a trade for Odom than the Blazers got or we could get for Zach. That tells you how valuable GMs think the two players are.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 11-16-2007 06:01 AM]
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franco12
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11/16/2007  7:50 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Caron was a Laker teammate of Kobe and is relevant to how good a support cast Kobe's had post-Shaq. I think you're greatly overvaluing the importance of low post scoring, especially if the guy is as inefficient and turnover prone as Zach. It's not like his low-post scoring makes his teammates better. I guarantee the Lakers would get much more in a trade for Odom than the Blazers got or we could get for Zach. That tells you how valuable GMs think the two players are.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 11-16-2007 06:01 AM]

no- I think it shows how overpaid zach is. and odom is always hurt- and wasn't odom's contract front loaded to keep clips from matching.
Bonn1997
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11/16/2007  8:43 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Caron was a Laker teammate of Kobe and is relevant to how good a support cast Kobe's had post-Shaq. I think you're greatly overvaluing the importance of low post scoring, especially if the guy is as inefficient and turnover prone as Zach. It's not like his low-post scoring makes his teammates better. I guarantee the Lakers would get much more in a trade for Odom than the Blazers got or we could get for Zach. That tells you how valuable GMs think the two players are.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 11-16-2007 06:01 AM]


no- I think it shows how overpaid zach is. and odom is always hurt- and wasn't odom's contract front loaded to keep clips from matching.

They're making the same salary. Zach's contract is just longer. You really think if Odom had 2 more years on his contract, the best the Lakers could get for him would be Frye and Francis? Anyway, the main thing is I see no reason why we'd be anything better than a 40 to 45 win eastern conference version of the Lakers if we got Kobe (after taking into account what we'd have to give up to get him). And we'd probably have an even more dysfunctional team than the Lakers have. I could easily see it being a lot worse than it is in LA.
Panos
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11/16/2007  9:13 AM
Posted by VDesai:

That would've been a good package. That beats the Lee, Curry, Crawford. I dunno why Kobe wouldn't go to Det.

Dude, have you ever BEEN to Detriot? It's a damn dump. A ghost town. Why would he want to go there?
VDesai
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11/16/2007  9:55 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by VDesai:

That would've been a good package. That beats the Lee, Curry, Crawford. I dunno why Kobe wouldn't go to Det.

Dude, have you ever BEEN to Detriot? It's a damn dump. A ghost town. Why would he want to go there?

They play in Auburn Hills. I thought he was about winning titles.
TMS
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11/16/2007  1:42 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Caron was a Laker teammate of Kobe and is relevant to how good a support cast Kobe's had post-Shaq.

that's a ridiculous analogy... so should we also throw in the name of Marcus Camby & discuss how good this team could have been if a Kobe trade were to have been made 6 years ago? Butler hasn't been a Laker for the past 3 years, he has no relevance at all to this discussion, none.
I think you're greatly overvaluing the importance of low post scoring, especially if the guy is as inefficient and turnover prone as Zach. It's not like his low-post scoring makes his teammates better. I guarantee the Lakers would get much more in a trade for Odom than the Blazers got or we could get for Zach. That tells you how valuable GMs think the two players are.

the contracts are the reason why you could feasibly get more back in a trade for Odom than Zach, but all things equal i would still take Zach over Odom if i'm building a team around Kobe... you made the point that a post Kobe trade Knicks would be the same as what Kobe has right now in LA & u've failed to address why you think that's the case... the fact remains he has no low post scorer in LA which he would have if he came to the Knicks even after Curry or Zach were involved in the deal to get him... he also doesn't have anyone on his team like Balkman or D Lee, who it's reasonable to think at least 1 of them would be left on this team if Kobe were to be traded here also (unless u happen to think bums like Maurice Evans or Ronnie Turiaf are better than those guys)... add Kobe to the Knicks & they'd have enough left to still make the playoffs & go past the 1st round right now... Kobe would have his big market & his fresh start, & the Knicks would finally get their franchise guy who they thought they were getting in Marbury... love Kobe or hate him, there's no denying he's the best player in the NBA, & if you have a chance to get him in a trade, u'd be a moron not to... & right now, the Lakers are running out of options to deal him... he's getting booed in his own house & he clearly wants out, & the Lakers clearly want to get him out.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-16-2007 10:43 AM]
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VDesai
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11/16/2007  1:49 PM
Caron was basically half the player he was on the Lakers as he is now. Kobe hasn't had an offensive sidekick close to as good as Randolph and I think there are still complementary pieces here that are better than the Laker team. Add a worse conference and he has a better shot of coming close over here. Look at how Lebron took his team to the championship game. Kobe would have a better supporting cast than that.
Cookdcokehop
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11/16/2007  4:02 PM
Watch him go to the Bucks
BlueSeats
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11/16/2007  4:23 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by VDesai:

That would've been a good package. That beats the Lee, Curry, Crawford. I dunno why Kobe wouldn't go to Det.

Dude, have you ever BEEN to Detriot? It's a damn dump. A ghost town. Why would he want to go there?

They play in Auburn Hills. I thought he was about winning titles.

Of course I don't know the terms of his deal, but remember when Kobe was a FA, and Isiah was still considered a magician, people were suggesting that Kobe might want to play here for the MLE because his Nike contract had huge kickers in it for playing in a major market city, namely NY, CHI, LA. I wonder how much that might still be a factor?

I happen to think the assorted deals Kobe could get by being a champion again would outweigh the incentives of one sneaker deal, but who knows...

He also just might not think Detroit would be a contender.

It's a terribly confusing situation because with his no-trade clause he holds all the cards. he says he wants out ASAP but then his list of acceptable teams is so short it makes a deal almost impossible.

It's also possible he would accept Detroit as a destination and one organization or the other has floated this out as a rumor to raise the stakes and force the other side's hand a bit.
TMS
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11/16/2007  4:31 PM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Watch him go to the Bucks

small market... no endorsement potential... future anonymity... it's perfect!
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newyorknewyork
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11/16/2007  4:36 PM
When we get the top 5 pick in this yrs draft Kobe might become a realistic option.

Curry, Crawford, top 5 pick, & David Lee for Kobe & Bynum. Mabye would have to add in Collins or Nate.
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crzymdups
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11/16/2007  4:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

i keep telling u guys, there's only 2 realistic options for Kobe to go to, & Chicago's already tried & failed to get Kobe... if he's going anywhere, it's to the NY Knicks... i said that months ago & u guys called me delusional... let's keep watching Kobe veto these trades to other teams & see how many other options the Lakers & Kobe have.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-15-2007 3:57 PM]


haven't the knicks already tried and failed to get Kobe?
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TMS
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11/16/2007  4:39 PM
Isiah tried to convince Kobe to sign as a MLE FA before last season, but i haven't heard anything about any trade offers made to the Lakers.
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TrueBlue
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11/16/2007  4:45 PM
Posted by TMS:

Isiah tried to convince Kobe to sign as a MLE FA before last season, but i haven't heard anything about any trade offers made to the Lakers.


If the Det rumor is true and he has vetoed going there if you've been keeping up with the Kobe saga he's already informed us he doesn't want to play here so we need to squash this. No matter what we'd offer, keeping in mind he doesn't want to go to a gutted team, he doesn't want to come here citing about a month ago...... "we have too much drama going on", and it's only escalated since then.

You're such a fan of getting this guy have you had problems keeping up with the news?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 11-16-2007 4:41 PM]
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TMS
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11/16/2007  4:57 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

When we get the top 5 pick in this yrs draft Kobe might become a realistic option.

Curry, Crawford, top 5 pick, & David Lee for Kobe & Bynum. Mabye would have to add in Collins or Nate.

that's a deal & a half if ur the Knicks, & i have a hard time seeing the Bulls making a better offer than that w/Kobe OK'ing the deal.

that would leave the Knicks with:

C - Bynum / Morris / Turd
PF - Zach / Malik / Jefferies
SF - Q Rich / Balkman / Chandler
SG - Kobe / Jones or 2nd round pick
PG - FA signing (Sam Cassell? Brevin Knight?) / Mardy or Nate

i'd have a heckuva brighter outlook on this team than i do right now if that happened, i'll tell u that much.
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TMS
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11/16/2007  5:00 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

Isiah tried to convince Kobe to sign as a MLE FA before last season, but i haven't heard anything about any trade offers made to the Lakers.


If the Det rumor is true and he has vetoed going thereif you've been keeping up with the Kobe saga he's already informed us he doesn't want to play here so we need to squash this. No matter what we'd offer, keeping in mind he doesn't want to go to a gutted team, he doesn't want to come here citing about a month ago...... we have too much drama going on and it's only escalated since then.

You're such a fan of getting this guy have you had problems keeping up with the news?

yeah, & if there's something we've come to know about Kobe it's that when he says something, he REALLY means it.

we'll see which one of us is right soon enough... not sure what your problem is with me wanting to get Kobe here to NY... yeah, i already know u think we don't have a chance in hell to get him, that's nothing new... just make sure you man up if a Kobe trade does go down, cuz i'll be doing the same if it doesn't... & don't be giving any of that "yeah, well if you're gonna give up the farm to get him, then obviously the Lakers had to make the deal" crap either if it does.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-16-2007 2:01 PM]
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BlueSeats
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11/16/2007  5:51 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

Isiah tried to convince Kobe to sign as a MLE FA before last season, but i haven't heard anything about any trade offers made to the Lakers.


If the Det rumor is true and he has vetoed going there if you've been keeping up with the Kobe saga he's already informed us he doesn't want to play here so we need to squash this. No matter what we'd offer, keeping in mind he doesn't want to go to a gutted team, he doesn't want to come here citing about a month ago...... "we have too much drama going on", and it's only escalated since then.

You're such a fan of getting this guy have you had problems keeping up with the news?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 11-16-2007 4:41 PM]

Well I'll be honest, I haven't followed the Kobe saga all that closely, do we know who his short list includes?

I would assume: NY, CHI, Clippers.

If we take NY off that list, how serious can he be about his willingness to be traded?
VDesai
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11/16/2007  5:54 PM
He's making it sound like Chicago or nothing and Chicago just doesn't have the horses or salaries to make the deal untill Dec.15 when Nocioni is tradable. The question is then whether LA wants to do the deal for a less than stellar package of Nocioni, Gordon, Noah etc. Untill then its anybody's guess, but I think he'll veto any trade untill he can go to Chicago.

As far as I can tell NY hasn't made an offer, but Kobe doesn't think we'd be close enough to contending.
TrueBlue
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11/16/2007  6:03 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by TMS:

Isiah tried to convince Kobe to sign as a MLE FA before last season, but i haven't heard anything about any trade offers made to the Lakers.


If the Det rumor is true and he has vetoed going there if you've been keeping up with the Kobe saga he's already informed us he doesn't want to play here so we need to squash this. No matter what we'd offer, keeping in mind he doesn't want to go to a gutted team, he doesn't want to come here citing about a month ago...... "we have too much drama going on", and it's only escalated since then.

You're such a fan of getting this guy have you had problems keeping up with the news?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 11-16-2007 4:41 PM]

Well I'll be honest, I haven't followed the Kobe saga all that closely, do we know who his short list includes?

I would assume: NY, CHI, Clippers.

If we take NY off that list, how serious can he be about his willingness to be traded?



You and I both echoed the thought his veto clause and short list makes it very hard. He's really a Fruit Case. The Bulls are on his list because of Jordan nothing more. Also demanding no Deng included on deals. The other team was Dallas. Well Cuban about a month ago said they aren't all that interested in trading him but they had some preliminary discussion involving Howard and Terry. I don't think he wants to be traded as bad as he made it out to be but he does want to take all the heat off himself and put it on the management for the failures of that franchise. We were on his list in the very beginning but haven't been mentioned since.
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BlueSeats
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11/16/2007  6:05 PM
Posted by VDesai:

He's making it sound like Chicago or nothing and Chicago just doesn't have the horses or salaries to make the deal untill Dec.15 when Nocioni is tradable. The question is then whether LA wants to do the deal for a less than stellar package of Nocioni, Gordon, Noah etc. Untill then its anybody's guess, but I think he'll veto any trade untill he can go to Chicago.

As far as I can tell NY hasn't made an offer, but Kobe doesn't think we'd be close enough to contending.


I'd highly suspect we've made an offer, just like 28 other teams. But it does sound like it's Chicago or nothing, which is absurd for a guy who seemed to want out with desperate urgency.
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OT: Det and Lakers Agreed To Kobe Trade?
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