Posted by nixluva:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by martin:

Posted by codeunknown:

I think .500 is an unreasonably low bar to set. Our young players don't figure to be top or even second tier talents. Our vets - Zach are garbage. And, so, .500 is likely to be around where we hover the following 2 years. And thats unacceptable. Isiah has to be booted out of here unless he can somehow make a convincing case that the talent that currently exists on our roster is at the very least better than .500.

i don't get why .500 is good also. This is what has been sold to the fans: Near all-star center, all-star PF, great PG. Great bench. Glue guys. Weak Eastern conference. Talented team.

Now, I KNOW that Isiah lies through his teeth, but come on, we are coming up on 4 years and our core team has been together for 3. .500?

Most didn't expect the team to be much better than that with everything going RIGHT!

Hence, its among the reasons why Isiah should get fired. Where's the discrepancy?

It seems to me that everyone wants this team to make up for all the losing seasons all at once. Unless you're going to put together a Celtic styled big 3 that's not going to happen. I want to see a progressive improvement from this team and to me .500 or a bit above that is not a bad season for this team nor evidence that Isiah has done a bad job.

I don't agree with the idea that this team needs to be blown up. There's some very capable talent here. We need to see this same efffort level carried thru the rest of the year and once we get things stabilized then we'll start to see the positive results of that. Last year many predicted the team would fall apart after the suspension and the team came together and played some of their best ball. This is why you don't want to write a team off early in a season. You can't tell me that with Zach back and with more input from our defensive bench players that this team can't win games.

I don't think it has much to do with making up for losing seasons as much as realistically determining the chances of an asecent towards contender status. To most, the evidence is already clinching that Isiah has failed. With you, though, its always 1 more season with a fuzzy minimum cutoff. If I remember correctly, you thought last year's team was a .500 team without injuries. Why is it adequate to maintain that pace? Because of our bind in terms of acquiring top tier talent, its only appropriate to stay with this team if you believe that the pieces are already here. And, if they are, a .500 record doesn't support it. So, in my book, .500 should lead to Isiah's departure without hesitation.

I wonder if it phases you that you were so wrong about Marbury. Does it ever cross you that your optimism prevents you from evaluating the team objectively? We've sparred about Marbury extensively. I predicted today's event, as did a majority on the board. You told us that Marbury would have a great year, not lose a step, play at a high level for 5 more years, and should be re-signed after the end of his current contract. Doesn't that strike you as odd?


[Edited by - codeunknown on 11-14-2007 02:25 AM]

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by martin:

Posted by codeunknown:

I think .500 is an unreasonably low bar to set. Our young players don't figure to be top or even second tier talents. Our vets - Zach are garbage. And, so, .500 is likely to be around where we hover the following 2 years. And thats unacceptable. Isiah has to be booted out of here unless he can somehow make a convincing case that the talent that currently exists on our roster is at the very least better than .500.

i don't get why .500 is good also. This is what has been sold to the fans: Near all-star center, all-star PF, great PG. Great bench. Glue guys. Weak Eastern conference. Talented team.

Now, I KNOW that Isiah lies through his teeth, but come on, we are coming up on 4 years and our core team has been together for 3. .500?

Most didn't expect the team to be much better than that with everything going RIGHT!

Hence, its among the reasons why Isiah should get fired. Where's the discrepancy?

It seems to me that everyone wants this team to make up for all the losing seasons all at once. Unless you're going to put together a Celtic styled big 3 that's not going to happen. I want to see a progressive improvement from this team and to me .500 or a bit above that is not a bad season for this team nor evidence that Isiah has done a bad job.

I don't agree with the idea that this team needs to be blown up. There's some very capable talent here. We need to see this same efffort level carried thru the rest of the year and once we get things stabilized then we'll start to see the positive results of that. Last year many predicted the team would fall apart after the suspension and the team came together and played some of their best ball. This is why you don't want to write a team off early in a season. You can't tell me that with Zach back and with more input from our defensive bench players that this team can't win games.

I don't think it has much to do with making up for losing seasons as much as realistically determining the chances of an asecent towards contender status. To most, the evidence is already clinching that Isiah has failed. With you, though, its always 1 more season with a fuzzy minimum cutoff. If I remember correctly, you thought last year's team was a .500 team without injuries. Why is it adequate to maintain that pace? Because of our bind in terms of acquiring top tier talent, its only appropriate to stay with this team if you believe that the pieces are already here. And, if they are, a .500 record doesn't support it. So, in my book, .500 should lead to Isiah's departure without hesitation.

I wonder if it phases you that you were so wrong about Marbury. Does it ever cross you that your optimism prevents you from evaluating the team objectively? We've sparred about Marbury extensively. I predicted today's event, as did a majority on the board. You told us that Marbury would have a great year, not lose a step, play at a high level for 5 more years, and should be re-signed after the end of his current contract. Doesn't that strike you as odd?


[Edited by - codeunknown on 11-14-2007 02:25 AM]

I hope he addresses your post and concentrates on the specific points you brought, nothing I haven't already asked of him myself and have yet to receive a logical pin-pointed explanation. I will say although Nix has believed most of those things he has come around very slowly with Steph. But usually his tempered and cautious outlook is always drowned with his gut "what could" and "if this happens" mumble jumble.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 11-14-2007 01:40 AM]

Posted by nixluva:

As bad as things have gotten it's too early in the year to basically write it off. I get the sense from too many Knick fans that they don't have the stomach to hang with the team and allow them to stabilize themselves again. I think that we need to see what this team does after we get Zach back and we settle into a rotation that includes more of our better defensive players. In this Suns game I saw more effort and defense than i've see in years. They may not have scored well, but they were trying.

Lee seems to be off his game. I don't know what it is, but he's not his usual self. Mardy and Balkman also got hurt, which I really didn't want to see. Nate, Jones, Jared and Chan looked pretty good. They had a LOT of energy and hustle and made playes defensively. If that had been a lesser team we might have had a chance to win playing with that kind of effort. I want to see what this group looks like 10, 20, 40 games from now. It's a long season and I think the remaining players haven't given up, so i'm not giving up on them. Teams like Chicago, Wash, and GS will keep fighting the rest of the way and they're likely to get back on track. I think this team will do the same thing.

If they remain commited to improving defensively, I think they're going to get better, so why jump ship on this team now? I'm tellin you we need to stick with this team and give them a chance.

you imply this team was once stable. When was that? Remember we sucked last year too? And the year before? What have you seen in 6 games that suggests this team is trying or making strides to improve defensively? Chi/Was/GS also have star players that can carry a team for extended stretches... do we have that player?

Or young guys in Chandler, Lee, Balkman, Nate and Mardy are OK. Our veterans are OK. All have holes in their games and dont fit into a team concept. There is a reason this team is and has been sub .500

I cannot talk about this right now I am so pissed at this team. It is like a circus with these guys. How hard is it to just go play basketball. If I were on the Knicks, I would promptly proceed to kick Marbury's ass when I got back to NY and would not follow a thing he said all year. And IT has got to go. I love the guy as a person, but this situation has become toxic. We have some good pieces and our own draft pick, but we need a GM who is not on the chopping block to make the right decisions for the future of this franchise. Clearly, guys like JJ1 should be cut but they are still here and we let a guy like Nichols go. I have lost confidence that IT can get it done. But maybe its my anger at the moment talking.

[Edited by - thegame on 11-14-2007 08:45 AM]

Posted by misterearl:

Classic

arkrud - "Nobody jumping the sheep."

Not so fast. I heard some heavy "bleating" and breathing from fish.mike's basement

[Edited by - misterearl on 11-14-2007 09:04 AM]

thats just the gimp wanting out of his box. You want a turn with him you gotta wait in line behind dj and marv