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O/T Joe Torre no longer Yankees Manager
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jaydh
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10/18/2007  7:05 PM
Posted by kam77:

Good luck to Joe if he thinks he'll get another salary like that.

thats not it at all...he's tired of the abuse.
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islesfan
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10/18/2007  7:14 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by kam77:

Good luck to Joe if he thinks he'll get another salary like that.

thats not it at all...he's tired of the abuse.

Speaking of abuse, do you feel like talking about the Mets choke job yet?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
jaydh
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10/18/2007  7:18 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by kam77:

Good luck to Joe if he thinks he'll get another salary like that.

thats not it at all...he's tired of the abuse.

Speaking of abuse, do you feel like talking about the Mets choke job yet?


if you'd like, doesn't matter to me. I was a fan through there 90s stretch, so i've experienced some of the worst and still come back for more. Torre being gone though, going to upset Jeter Posada Rivera, goodbye Pettite and hopefully arod too.


[Edited by - jaydh on 10-18-2007 7:21 PM]
Vmart
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10/18/2007  7:22 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Vmart:

He was never that good. Terrible in game manager, good club house manager. Refuses to play small ball and waits for the Homerun much to much, he forgot what got him the championships. That last game vs. Cleveland I went to left me baffled beyond belief. Torre needed to go, he was more the product of the team being down right loaded. Good move by the Yankees and contrary to what others say they did their due diligence and made a sound decision.

I don't disagree. But I do give him a lot more credit for what they won under him.

Lately he just seemed to lose his touch and seemed to be living off his past and the team's talent. They need someone new to push button and stop the complacency that has infested the team. The team always seems to wait for something to happen because of their talent instead of going out and taking it. That's why younger and hungrier teams always seem to beat them in the playoffs. The D'Backs, Marlins, Angels, the Tigers and now the Indians. I think change will be good.

You are right Torre waited for things to happen instead of making things happen in the playoffs.

I think its unfair to criticize torre for not playing small ball- he doesn't have a team of small ball players. what did a rod & jeter hit in the series?

I honestly thought the yankees would do well- they got into a winning mode at the right time of the year, put together a nice streak.

But I will say this- when chamberlain got unnerved by the bugs- torre should have gotten someone else in their- I think that was the moment that cleveland said 'we're better than the yankees' we can win'.

I think to some extent, the yankees have been unlucky- getting to the play offs and running into another team that got hot- and look at cleveland & colorado- a bunch of young, hungry players who want to win.

There are some great players on the yankee roster- but I don't think they have enough guys that are hungry. Plenty are clutch, but not enough are truly hungry. Blame Cashman and George for not developing enough young talent and starphuching.


No I don't think its unfair, you have to take the criticism when it come your way as it goes with the accolades. Torre had number of opportunities in that last Cleveland game to scratch out some runs. The way I saw it there was one senario Two men on first and second with Melky and Doug Man. up and no outs down 4-1 he lets Mely hit away and then Doug flies out. He had an opportunity to get Melky to bunt and make it thrid and second and a fly ball scores the run making it 4-2. There were a few occasions like that and he didn't move the runners over on all the occasions. If Torre does his job and call for bunts there is a very good chance the Yankees scratch out atleast 2 runs making it 4-3 and sure enough that would have meant that he Yankees would have made it easier for themselves to atleast stay in the game. By the way I left the game in the 5th inning after that I knew they were done. the score was 6-1 caught the rest of the game at home. I hate to say this but the fact is Torre was not managing the game.
islesfan
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10/18/2007  7:32 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by kam77:

Good luck to Joe if he thinks he'll get another salary like that.

thats not it at all...he's tired of the abuse.

Speaking of abuse, do you feel like talking about the Mets choke job yet?


if you'd like, doesn't matter to me. I've was a fan through there 90s stretch, so i've experienced some of the worst and still come back for more. Torre being gone though, going to upset Jeter Posada Rivera, goodbye Pettite and hopefully arod too.

Mets fans know the worst of times. Yankees fans know the best of times.

Expect more of the same next year.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
jaydh
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10/18/2007  7:46 PM
haha... oooo you got me.
islesfan
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10/18/2007  7:53 PM
Posted by jaydh:

haha... oooo you got me.

Ooooo, you really got me. Hoping against hope that the Yankees lose some key players so you can feel better about yourself and the pathetic Mets.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
jaydh
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10/18/2007  7:55 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:

haha... oooo you got me.

Ooooo, you really got me. Hoping against hope that the Yankees lose some key players so you can feel better about yourself and the pathetic Mets.

The yanks most likely will lose key players because of this and I am happy. But that only comes from hating on yankee fans, not the organization.
islesfan
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10/18/2007  8:01 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:

haha... oooo you got me.

Ooooo, you really got me. Hoping against hope that the Yankees lose some key players so you can feel better about yourself and the pathetic Mets.

The yanks most likely will lose key players because of this and I am happy. But that only comes from hating on yankee fans, not the organization.

I don't see the Yankees losing anybody because of this. Rivera and Posada will be back if they get good offers, which I think they will. Pettitte told the Yankees the only reason he wouldn't pick up his option was if he weren't healthy, which he is. ARod could care less about Torre leaving, if you think that was a factor in him staying then you don't know what you're talking about.

Why all the hate on Yankees fans? Insecurity? Low self worth as a Mets fan?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
4949
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10/18/2007  8:19 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I think this is good for the Yankees. They don't look like the bad guy for not bringing Torre back. I think Posada and Mariano come back, since they can't hold it against the Yankees for not bringing Torre back.

I don't think Torre coming back is an issue for ARod.

The Yankees are already rebuilding with all the kids on the pitching staff, Cano and Cabrera in their lineup with more changes coming after next year when several big contracts come off the books. I wouldn't mind Girardi being manager. I don't think he'll have the same problems with the Yankees ownership and management as he did in Floriday.

A-rod is the very reason of Joe's departure. His failure in four straight post seasons were a huge flop. Best of luck to Joe and thanks for the many years of success. A manager is only as good as his multi million dollar players can perform. How many managers can take a team to the playoffs as many times as he's done. Very, very few have done it. The new bosses I think made a mistake. It is time to rebuild. Pasada, Mo & Jeets will be leaving in a few more years with honors. A-rod can take a hike with disgrace. Giambi should have been gone already. If Joe is gone, then it is definately time to rebuild.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/18/2007  8:22 PM
Posted by franco12:

as a met fan, I'd give torre a chance- perhaps we can offer him some special assignments job- advisor- anything to stick it to george.

did anyone ask joe if he wanted to come back? I'm thinking he might not have wanted to.

I think the Yankees need to go through some rebuilding- bring in some youth- no more roger clemons & guy's old enough for social security.

And remind A Rod on his way to the LA Angels that CA is one of the higher tax states out there.

Joe can choose whatever he wants now. He's earned it. I hope he doesn't end up in scrub land, where not even the great LOU could take those losers to a World Series. Not the way to end a career.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/18/2007  8:26 PM
Posted by Vmart:

He was never that good. Terrible in game manager, good club house manager. Refuses to play small ball and waits for the Homerun much to much, he forgot what got him the championships. That last game vs. Cleveland I went to left me baffled beyond belief. Torre needed to go, he was more the product of the team being down right loaded. Good move by the Yankees and contrary to what others say they did their due diligence and made a sound decision.

You must have missed those glory days. Non apprciative. He managed the Yankees to about 12 straight playoff appearances. It's not his fault if this alledged greatest ballplayer in MLB today, A-rod, didn't perform to what was expected of him. Joe's earned respect.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/18/2007  8:30 PM
Joe Torre is up there with the best of them. Joe McCarthy, Miller Huggins & the great Casey Stengell!!! If you don't know who they' are, then your not a Yankee fan.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/18/2007  8:35 PM
This says it all.

I'll never trust this' team again.
Vmart
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10/18/2007  8:55 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Vmart:

He was never that good. Terrible in game manager, good club house manager. Refuses to play small ball and waits for the Homerun much to much, he forgot what got him the championships. That last game vs. Cleveland I went to left me baffled beyond belief. Torre needed to go, he was more the product of the team being down right loaded. Good move by the Yankees and contrary to what others say they did their due diligence and made a sound decision.

You must have missed those glory days. Non apprciative. He managed the Yankees to about 12 straight playoff appearances. It's not his fault if this alledged greatest ballplayer in MLB today, A-rod, didn't perform to what was expected of him. Joe's earned respect.

Look I never discounted the glory days but I think he took over What Buck instilled in the team and he rode it. But he got away from it fast with questionable managing, I loved the run and so did he I thought he got a lot of credit for some he deserved it but not all of it. the players he had were leaders Paul O'Neal, Bernie Williams and Tino those were the driving force behind Torre's greatness. They use to put pressure on the opposing teams and opposing teams use to crack under the Yankees aggressiveness, that aggressiveness was great. It was nonstop pressure on the opposing team. Thats what the Yankees have been lacking in these past playoff exit that constant pressure that comes from managers managing agressively. Joe stopped that while back ago. Player running base to base no steals no bunting, no hit and runs. Just waiting on a three run HR thats not managing.
4949
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10/18/2007  9:22 PM
He doesn't (didn't) have the luxury anymore of those clutch players. But he still was the manager. That has to count for something. He still has four Yankee rings on his fingers. If it had been Lou Pinella, or Billy Martin, or even Buck himself, they would've 'rode' on the coat tails also. But it was Joe Torre and no one can down play that. Your point, my point regarding what he did and didn't do with players was based on the new charachter of the team and what Pasada, Jeets and Mo had to adjust to. A-rod was the powerhouse factor who failed miserably!!! There is no question there and it was a big' contributing factor to Joe's departure. If A-rod had come through in a big way and rubbed off on the others, we might have won at least a dozen games, and maybe even walked away with a few more World Series, in the four years A-rod's been with us. Do you agree?

Joe managed them to consective, consecutive, consecutive playoffs, and the new team he inherited the last several years wasn't as magical as the 1996 - 2000 teams he had. I believe A-rod 'and' Giambi for that matter were the failing differences to this. No matter what Joe did, no mater what move he made, if a player couldn't come through, then they just couldn't do it. And they didn't do what they where supposed to. Look how poorly the hitters performed, thoughout the first three games? And when they really start to hit, they still lost. And let's not forget that half of our pitching staff is aged. It's time to start rebuilding. In truth, the way things are going now, I'd think I can say that the Yankees will probably just miss the playoffs for the first time in a long time, by next season. We almost didn't make it this time and had to settle for a wild card and played like a wild card team.
I'll never trust this' team again.
RemBee76
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10/19/2007  8:08 AM
Posted by islesfan:

I think this is good for the Yankees. They don't look like the bad guy for not bringing Torre back.

Well, that was clearly their intention, though I have to admit that I'm pretty surprised that anyone is naive enough to buy that.

The Yankees made Torre an offer they knew he would refuse. One year at a pay cut? Why, so he can go through this whole thing again in another year if the Yankees don't meet the Boss' expectations? Of course Torre wasn't going to submit himself to that.

You want Joe to win in the playoffs get him some starting pitching.

He isn’t a perfect manager, but the way the Joe Torre era ended in New York is completely classless. At least have the balls to say "You're fired", instead you leave the guy hanging for weeks then come up with the brilliant lowball idea that could only be hatched by a committee of over-fed sons and son-in-laws.

And then you have some Yankee Fans saying the Yankess don't look bad. Heads in the sand, perhaps.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
djsunyc
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10/19/2007  2:29 PM
joe didn't like the # of years on the offer and he didn't like the incentives (saw it as insulting).

if the yanks wanted torre back, he would've been back. but the way it ended allows joe to walk away smelling like roses, so it's possible the yanks did this as a way to put all the blame on themselves.
RemBee76
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10/19/2007  2:38 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
but the way it ended allows joe to walk away smelling like roses, so it's possible the yanks did this as a way to put all the blame on themselves.

How would Torre get most of the blame if the Yankees just fired him?

No, I don't think they were acting selflessly when they made Torre an offer that would have left him hanging and obviously without management's support for another year had he taken it.

They did it so that Yankee fans like some here would say "See, my organization isn't run by a bunch of *******s, he still would have been the highest paid manager in baseball. Torre just didn't want to come back."
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
islesfan
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10/19/2007  2:43 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

joe didn't like the # of years on the offer and he didn't like the incentives (saw it as insulting).

if the yanks wanted torre back, he would've been back. but the way it ended allows joe to walk away smelling like roses, so it's possible the yanks did this as a way to put all the blame on themselves.

Joe is obviously free to feel that way and I wouldn't blame him one bit for feeling that way. But the Yankees also have the right to offer him less if they don't think they've gotten the value that they were getting when they made him the highest paid manager, by far.

Joe isn't the first person to be offered less based on declining performance. Despite what some people think, that doesn't mean that they didn't want him. If they just didn't want him, they wouldn't have offered anything. Obviously they would have looked bad to some, or most people, either way.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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O/T Joe Torre no longer Yankees Manager
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