Posted by nixluva:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by nixluva:


The "all alone" thing. The "I FEEL that i'm the best PG in the NBA comment, which he was baited into making and then restating by the media, who kept throwing Kidd in his face.

You engage in a lot of self deception regarding Marbury. I remember having to correct your adamant exhortations that Marbury never had issues with teammates, GMs or coaches before here. I can pull up the old thread if you'd like.

Now here you deceive yourself about the "normalcy" of these other proclamations of his. Marbury wasn't baited into anything, before the January 1st 2004 Nest a game he was asked by a TV reporter something along the lines of "Now that your with the knicks and Kidd is with the Nets, who's the best PG in the Metro area." A question Kidd surely had been asked as well, without yielding such a hyperbolic answer.

IMO, Steph's best response would have been humility, but barring that, had he just answered something short like, "Me!" with a charasmatic smile the media wouldn't have blinked. Instead he went off an a two day mediathon. Below are quotes combined from his two days of answering a routine question.

"Don't get me wrong -- I love Jason Kidd. He's a great point guard," Marbury said. "(But) how am I comparing myself to him when I think I'm the best point guard to play basketball? That doesn't make any sense. I mean, how can I sit here and compare myself to somebody if I already think I'm the best?

"I'm telling you what it is: I know I'm the best point guard in the NBA. I don't need anybody else to tell me that. When I go on the basketball court, if I think about what you're all saying, I'll lose my mind."

"He's just like me," Marbury said of Kidd at yesterday's morning shootaround before the Nets beat the Knicks, 93-87. "He's a loser. We're both losers. Neither of us have won a championship. Tim Duncan is a winner. Kevin Garnett is a loser just like me. Charles Barkley is a loser just like me. [TNT partner] Kenny Smith is a winner.

"Magic [Johnson], Michael Jordan, [Larry] Bird, those guys are winners. Kobe [Bryant] and Shaquille [O'Neal] are winners. Isiah Thomas is a winner. Until you win championships, we're just like everyone else. It doesn't matter how far you get in the playoffs. It doesn't matter if you get to the Finals. You lost."

Marbury didn't back down from his New Year's boast that he considers himself the "best point guard in basketball."

"I'm just saying reality and answered a question," Marbury said. "I already know I'm the best point guard. It's like asking if it's raining outside. You're going to tell them it's raining."

The man clearly went far and beyond saying he "feels" he's the best.

Now why was this ever important to me? Shortly after those quotes Scalabrini from the Nets was aksed about them. Might have even been right after the game, which the Knicks lost. I think his insightful response is most telling:


WFAN interview:

Carlin: A couple of weeks ago Stephon Marbury makes the comment that he feels like he's the best point guard in the league. When the Nets hear something like that, and you have Jason Kidd on the team, are their any raised eyebrows going around?

Scalabrine: [i]OK here's the difference. When Steph makes that comment, I dont know, I mean I'm not in the locker room, but I don't know if the Knicks have his back. But when Steph makes that comment about Jason, we were like "we are not losing this game against the Knicks, we can't let this happen." We have Jason's back and Jason has our back. [/b]And I think you know Steph is a very good player, you know he's very talented. But you know I'd run through a wall for Jason and Jason would run through a wall for us. That pretty much shows that he's the best point guard. When you have a guy like that and you'll do anything for him and he'll do anything for you that pretty much sums up the best point guard ever.

Up until those comments the Knicks had a .500 record and were in the midst of a 3 game win streak. Those comments commenced a 2-16 plummet, the worst in franchise history. Probably because, unlike Kidd in NJ, Marbury's teammates decidedly did NOT have his back.

Obviously those comments alone were not enough to knock the knees out from under the team, they were simply the straw of discontent that broke the team's back.

Marbury has been poisonous to all his teams and those with connections to basketball, like many in the media, know this all too well. You, though, never will.

I'm not deceiving my self about anything. You only posted Steph's 2nd response to the situation. His original statement was a reaction not just an out of the blue declaration. He was expressing that he feels he's the best PG, so why would he go out of his way to give that title to another PG.

I'm well aware of his comments at that time. I still believe that the media always threw Kidd in his face and eventually he took the bait. His pride got up and he spouted off with some bravado. The same bravado that MANY NBA players have inside, but don't always say cuz they try to be politically correct. They often do feel that way tho. As for the reason the team went on a losing streak, it had nothing to do with Steph's comments or his team not having his back. How about some poorly timed injuries and the fact that the team wasn't great or deep to begin with.

When the team is on the court I have seen MANY instances of good team spirit displayed by all the players. Steph's been good to a number of the young players on this team and I think the media just likes to paint the picture that the players all don't get along with him. I don't believe them. Yeah Steph can be a jerk and he's not a warm and cuddly guy. Still that doesn't mean that the team hates him and won't play with him.

KG had wanted to continue to play with Steph, so he wasn't a poison to that team. They were a team on the rise. It was a mistake for Steph to leave, but to say that he somehow was bad for that team is a lie.

When in PHX, it's claimed that he was disliked and that may have been true of some, but that team also at one point really liked what he was doing:

The Suns have a lot of reasons to believe they are indeed headed in the right direction, but maybe none as significant as the emergence of Marbury as the team’s leader in only his second season in the Valley of the Sun.

The 26-year-old playmaker came to the Suns in a much-debated blockbuster trade with New Jersey for perennial All-Star guard Jason Kidd in the summer of 2001. While “Starbury” posted solid numbers in his first season in Phoenix (20.4 points, 8.1 assists), the resurgent Nets were considered the clear-cut early victors in the deal, particularly after New Jersey advanced to the 2002 NBA Finals. One year later, though, few share that same assessment.

Through his play and his actions on and off the court, Marbury began to exhibit leadership skills on a team that was desperately searching for someone to step up after a lackluster 2001-02 campaign.

Marbury’s metamorphosis actually began before the '02-03 season kicked off. Bothered by bone spurs in the preseason, the Suns’ go-to player in the clutch decided to delay ankle surgery until after the season was completed. The surgery would have sidelined him for nearly two months and likely would have doomed the Suns’ chances of having a winning season.

Further proof of Marbury’s new-found leadership was evident when he spoke on behalf of the team to coach Johnson, suggesting that the Suns should rely less on the team’s new “motion” offense in favor of a more structured offense. Phoenix averaged 84.4 points per game over its first 15 games (8-7 record), but totaled 96.8 points over the next 16 games (11-5) as the Suns climbed up the standings, as high as fourth in the Western Conference at one point.

“As far as my leadership role, I think it definitely changed totally,” Marbury admitted. “I did what I said I was going to do at the beginning of the year. I empowered my teammates to do things that sometimes they might not want to do, but they did them. It was hard. It wasn’t easy.

“You’ve got 12 rich guys in the locker room and they all have their own personalities and their own ways on how they feel they play the game. Whenever you can get them all to listen to you when you talk, you know that’s something.”

Marbury finished with one of his best all-around seasons in his seven-year pro career and was the only player in the NBA to rank in the top 12 in points (12th, 22.3) and assists (4th , 8.1). He was also named to the All-NBA Third Team.

“If you look at the talent, there’s a great story in what Marbury accomplished this year in terms of not just his statistics, but in terms of his perception,” Colangelo observed. “What we’ve witnessed is the maturing of Stephon Marbury in my opinion. That’s a great credit to him.”

Posted by misterearl:

Psycho

Lupica Jan 25, 2004:
"[Stephon Marbury] is the one who has gotten Knick fans excited again. He is the one whose style of play has made people want to watch the Knicks again, win or lose. Marbury is the one who has made Knick fans not only believe that their team can make a run at the playoffs, but some kind of miracle run at the Tri-State Nets for first place in the Atlantic Division.

It is like that with Marbury now. He is hope. He is that kind of stick in the middle of the Knicks' offense, whether he is making a crazy shot against the Hawks, or making another pass. You hear from all these people around the league who want [Isiah Thomas] to be wrong about Marbury, who show you how little playoff success Marbury has had in the pros. They are the ones who will end up being wrong. Marbury will be sensational here."

Posted by Bippity10:

I personally don't hate the guy. I like the attempt he made last year to be more team oriented. The attempt alone shows that he is more team oriented. If he is marginalized by the coach instead of being given the keys to the franchise he's actually not a bad player. But as the face of your franchise he is, well let's just say, not good.

Hopefully with some growth from Eddie Curry and Zach we can push the Marbs sideshow aside, ignore his personality and get value out of his play on the court. But if he has one more on court episode you can't really keep him. He's gone beyond his 9 lives as it is.

Posted by BlueSeats:

You're one of a kind 'luva. Something tells me if Hitler and Stalin had been a Knick you'd find a way to dismiss their sins.

Posted by nixluva:

I'm not deceiving my self about anything. You only posted Steph's 2nd response to the situation. His original statement was a reaction not just an out of the blue declaration. He was expressing that he feels he's the best PG, so why would he go out of his way to give that title to another PG.

I'm well aware of his comments at that time. I still believe that the media always threw Kidd in his face and eventually he took the bait. His pride got up and he spouted off with some bravado. The same bravado that MANY NBA players have inside, but don't always say cuz they try to be politically correct. They often do feel that way tho.

Ah, the old Steph-as-victim routine again.

Well, Kidd was asked the same questions without imploding, just as Nash and Kidd are asked the same of each other today, and Isiah and Magic before them. Pre-game rivalry hype is the rule in sports, not the exception. Marbury's inanity is the exception.

Posted by nixluva:

As for the reason the team went on a losing streak, it had nothing to do with Steph's comments or his team not having his back. How about some poorly timed injuries and the fact that the team wasn't great or deep to begin with.

While you'll get no argument from me that Marbury led teams readily free-fall at the first sign of adversity, there were no injuries that warranted a historicaly worst 2-16 plummet coinciding to the day of those comments.

Posted by nixluva:
KG had wanted to continue to play with Steph, so he wasn't a poison to that team. They were a team on the rise. It was a mistake for Steph to leave, but to say that he somehow was bad for that team is a lie.

First off, while it used to be said that KG and Marbury were friends, it came out a year or so ago that they had not spoken to each other since Marbury's departure.

Second, KG wasn't the only guy that mattered on the team. In fact, at the time, Tom Gugliotta was an all-star in his prime and the team's leading scorer, and he told management he'd only re-sign if Marbury were traded.

Third, the coach, Flip Saunders said Marbury only became an 80% team player, up from 25% when he came.

There is no denying Marbury's talent, but there is room to question his
priorities and his commitment to winning. Marbury told SI in January 1998
that he was thinking of bolting Minnesota when his contract was up because
of the weather and because he missed his New York friends. This news stunned
the Timberwolves' front office, which later discovered that Marbury had made
those comments just days after a local night spot refused to serve him
alcohol because he was underage. "They give me my own table in New York!"
Marbury reportedly fumed between expletives.

At his press conference last Friday, Marbury insisted that reuniting with
friends and family was his main objective in forcing the trade. Minnesota
says Marbury believed he was missing out on endorsements because he was
playing in a small-market city, and that he couldn't accept being paid less
than teammate Kevin Garnett because Marbury views himself as the better
player. Garnett signed a seven-year, $126 million extension before the new
collective bargaining agreement went into effect; under the new deal, the
most Marbury could make in Minnesota was $70.9 million for six years, which
New Jersey gladly gave him last Friday.

The departure of Marbury left his ex-teammates shell-shocked. They had no
trouble overlooking his mood swings because of his exceptional skills.
"Steph changed like the wind, from one day to the next," McHale says. "Even
on the court, there was the good Steph and the bad Steph. The bad Steph
thought only about his game. The good Steph moved the ball, got others
involved, took big shots. We got him up to being that guy around 80 percent
of the time near the end, which was up from 25 percent when we first got
him."

The Timberwolves are left to ponder what happened to their promising
foundation of Garnett, Marbury and Tom Gugliotta, who took a lot less money
to sign with Phoenix in January. Saunders says Gugliotta had told Minnesota
he would re-sign with the Timberwolves -- if they agreed to trade Marbury.

Posted by nixluva:

When in PHX, it's claimed that he was disliked and that may have been true of some, but that team also at one point really liked what he was doing:

Woopdie-doo. As you said, they "once" liked what he was doing. Then a few short months after that they shipped him here for what his supporters referred to as "our garbage". Couldn't have liked him that much.

It's really no mystery why they traded him, we can see the same story told over and over again through the eyes of many.

Here's D'Antoni a couple of days after the trade:

D’Antoni: Well, we’ve got to start winning. Winning cures everything. Like last night, we’re coming from the road trip and we’re on the plane, just sitting up with the coaches. Barbosa’s watching the game, talking with one coach about his play, then we had Shawn Marion’s up with another coach talking about his play, then we had Jake Voskuhl with another coach looking at his game. And Lampe’s up there just watching the whole scene. That didn’t happen before. There were a lot of expectations and things were going bad. It’s hard for a player to blame himself, so they were either blaming each other or us and it was a negative. Now that is lifted and people are stepping out and taking responsibility and they understand where we can go if we do it right. We’re just trying to lay a foundation on how want to play and I think the fans will respond if they give these kids a chance, and I do think the wins will follow. Hopefully, we’re not too far off. I don’t know that for sure because we are young and with Sacramento coming in (Friday) night we have a lot of question marks. I do know that the energy and the concentration and the will is there. If you lay that foundation, you’re going to eventually be successful.

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Maybe you don't believe the mood "lifted" because of the departure of Penny and Marbury? Lets see what Penny had to say:

PHOENIX - Penny Hardaway and Stephon Marbury departed Phoenix 13 months ago when they were traded to the Knicks. They returned to America West Arena last night to find a vastly different Suns team that leads the NBA with 109 points per game and now ranks as a legitimate title contender with its fast-paced style.

Asked last night if he's shocked by the turnaround, Hardaway said Suns coach Mike D'Antoni wasn't able to sell his European-style offense to his players last season, but that changed when Phoenix added point guard Steve Nash and small forward Quentin Richardson as free agents, using the salary-cap space created by the Marbury trade.

"Coach D'Antoni is a great coach," Hardaway said. "He tried to have us buy into this system when we were here, and we really didn't. There was so much turmoil going on. Steve Nash and Quentin Richardson came in and had the type of game Coach wanted. That's up and down, push the ball, kick it ahead and it doesn't matter who shoots or who scores ... We had enough on the team to get it done, but we just didn't buy into the system."

Hardaway was upset in Phoenix because his playing time was reduced to make way for younger players. Marbury was in the middle of the turmoil that enveloped the Suns.

"It was like guys talking behind each other's backs, guys being selfish, everybody was trying to get their own," Hardaway said. "That leads to trades, and that broke the team up. It doesn't seem like they have any of that going on right now."


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Still think D'Antoni and Hardaway aren't talking about Marbury? Let's have Isiah tell us why Marbury was available from Phoenix:

"When we got him here in New York, the reason why we were able to get him is because he has flaws," said Isiah Thomas, the Knicks' president, who acquired Marbury in a splashy trade last January. "And you don't correct those flaws in four months. But I look at where he is at today and this year, he's laying a great foundation for him to springboard to success in this league. And it's not easy."

"The type of leader I think he's developing into, he's accepting of his teammates' criticism. Before, it was like nobody could say if he was doing anything wrong. Teammates were afraid. So everybody kind of sniped behind his back, as opposed to trying to help him and teach him."

Thomas speculated that Marbury had tried to lead through intimidation. That certainly seemed to be the case in New Jersey, where Marbury publicly criticized Kerry Kittles and Keith Van Horn; and in Phoenix, where Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion reportedly grew weary of his demeanor.


"Steph is really a very unselfish player," a Suns official said. But once divisions arise, he added, "Steph isn't good with breaking it down, with the way he acts."


Now 'luva, do your homework, can you see how the lack of resonsibility and and infighting the D'Antoni is so glad to have lifted with the departure of Marbury is reiterated and confirmed by Penny and Isiah?

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Do we need to review how his NJ teammates felt about him too? You're something of stubborn soul, so for most I'd say no, but for you, yes:



It figures: even when the "old" Nets traded for a supertalent--they got Marbury in an enormous three-team, nine-player deal in 1999--they ended up with the wrong one. "The difference between last year and this year?" ponders an emotional Kenyon Martin, taking out his furiously repressed feelings on his sneaker laces in the near-deserted Nets locker room an hour before facing the Indiana Pacers. `This year we have guys who want to play. Last year we had some people in here who were too busy tapping themselves on the shoulder, telling themselves how great they were."

"Last year, we didn't play any defense," forward Aaron Williams, a 6'10" supersub, chimes in from the next stall. "On any NBA team, the leader sets the tone. And our leader didn't bother playing D most nights."

"He thought he was too good for that--then he'd blame everybody else, pointing fingers," Martin adds. "I'm not naming any names, you understand, but this was an unhappy, divided locker room last year. And the division was one guy on one side and everyone else on the other."

"Yes, we did have one guy in here last year who thought he was too good for everybody else on the team and didn't mind saying so," smiles GM Rod Thorn, still remaining strictly incognito about the "one guy's" identity. "And he was, too. Better than everyone else, that is. But it all didn't add up to much, did it?"

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Now you being you, I'm sure you think Steph cleaned all that up by the time he got here, right? Let's see:

"I'm not going to change my game, I'm still going to play the way I've
always played" - Stephon Marbury Preseason '05-06

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"Steph is going to say all the right things about playing for Coach Brown, because Steph will tell you anything you want to hear if it benefits Steph," a former Marbury teammate told me yesterday. "But if anyone thinks that marriage is going to work, well, they've never played with Steph, or coached him."

"I'm fine," he said. "I'm comfortable with myself and I'm content. Like I said, I came here willing and able, 100 percent committed to do whatever he wanted me to do. I did it, it didn't work, so I'm going to play like how I know how to play."

That remark was an echo of Marbury's comment last month that he needed to go back to playing like "Starbury," his alter ego. Brown prefers his point guards to pass first and score when necessary. Marbury, a scoring guard for his entire career, has bristled at changing his style.

But, he said, "There have been people who've played for a coach who didn't see things the same way, and it worked out. I don't see why it can't work out. But like I said, and I'm going to say it again: I played like Stephon Marbury this year, and next year I'm going to play like Starbury."

Later, he sounded defiant about Brown's wishes. "Oh, he don't have to worry, I'm going to do everything that I did before he came here. I don't care what he wants to hear. I'm telling you what I'm going to do." -End of '05-06


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The close relationship between Marbury and Thomas has created friction in the locker room over the years. Many former teammates felt that Marbury flaunted his ties with Thomas by occasionally sitting out practice or breaking off plays in games without being reprimanded.

Last season, when Lenny Wilkens still was the coach, Marbury gave an impassioned speech to his teammates about pulling together. His impromptu pep talk came right before a morning practice. But as soon as the team took the court, Marbury retreated to the locker room for a massage.


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Kurt, Knicks showing fight
By FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Of course, there is a fine line between showing a competitive side and showing utter contempt for a teammate. The latter may be true of Marbury and Thomas, who nearly came to blows in the locker room following last Friday's win over Cleveland, a source told the Daily News.

The problem started with a nasty exchange on the bench between the point guard and power forward that was caught on tape by MSG Network. According to SLAM magazine's Web site, Thomas expressed his displeasure with Marbury about a certain play. Marbury reportedly responded by shouting a profanity at his teammate. Thomas cursed back at Marbury before saying, "Everyone in this organization is afraid of you, but I'm not, and I will beat your (butt)."

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"Stephon is the worst teammate I've ever had," Tim Thomas told me an hour after the Suns had eliminated the Clippers, echoing the sentiments of Jayson Williams, Keith Van Horn, Kurt Thomas and several Suns and Knicks who wish to remain anonymous. "We grew up together, yet the whole time I was with the Knicks he never talked to me. Not once. Not until I was traded did he say anything..... They don't come any weirder!"

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ESPN's Stephen A. Smith even reported that Marbury's teammates hate him so much that Quentin Richardson recently wanted to fight him. Smith went on to say that Richardson's sister had to call Quentin to convince him to leave the practice facility peacefully. But the Knicks are stuck with Marbury and his enormous contract (Richardson's too, for that matter). Fans and media can complain about this, but it is what it is.

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This is a waste of time, everyone gets it by now 'cept for you 'luva.... okay, and maybe papabear too...

Posted by Bippity10:

I cannot believe that you guys are not excited about a season full of Bornagainbury quotes. Cut him? I say extend him, and give him his own talk show

suckbury is the one who has gotten Knick fans excited again. He is the one whose style of play has made people want to watch the Knicks again, win or lose. Marbury is the one who has made Knick fans not only believe that their team can make a run at the playoffs, but some kind of miracle run at the Tri-State Nets for first place in the Atlantic Division. It is like that with Marbury now. He is hope. He is that kind of stick in the middle of the Knicks' offense, whether he is making a crazy shot against the Hawks, or making another pass. You hear from all these people around the league who want [Isiah Thomas] to be wrong about Marbury, who show you how little playoff success Marbury has had in the pros. They are the ones who will end up being wrong. Marbury will be sensational here."