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Bippity10
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10/3/2007  3:41 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

When in a professional environment it is best to behave professionally and save all of the other stuff for after work. People give the word PC a bad name, but all PC is, is the right for people not to be called N*ggers, women not to be demeaned etc. The people who have historically complained about PC have been white men who were upset that they were being forced not to be sexist and racist a-holes. Now PC means that for every man in the work place as well. Something definitely happened at MSG, but nothing came out about 11 million dollars worth of something.

But at least you are not one who generalizes
I just hope that people will like me
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Bippity10
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10/3/2007  3:51 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

When in a professional environment it is best to behave professionally and save all of the other stuff for after work. People give the word PC a bad name, but all PC is, is the right for people not to be called N*ggers, women not to be demeaned etc. The people who have historically complained about PC have been white men who were upset that they were being forced not to be sexist and racist a-holes. Now PC means that for every man in the work place as well. Something definitely happened at MSG, but nothing came out about 11 million dollars worth of something.

My mom works for the NYS division of human rights. The do real damages there. So no emotional suffering or anything like that. You lost you job and it took you 5 months to find you another one, they owe you 5 months of pay, thats it. I think they should throw in a cuople of 1000 worth of penalty money or fines, but this money ABS asked for, relative to what she went through seems totally ridiculous.

There are women all over the country who are routinely herassed in real ways, forced into sexual encounters and all kinds of realy harmful damaging degrading things, this ABS case is not a victory for them and does not approach that. Women who are single mothers struggling to get by, being sexually exploited, not just herassed. Save the big judgements for that. THey would be able to literally shut down the music industry if they did that, because herassment is open and a part of the culture so much that its virtually accepted.

I'm actually dealing with a situation right now at work where a person was talking about his girlfriend. People were joking about him being p-whipped. He retorted that he is p-whipped because he learned long ago not to mess with the "sistas". Everyone laughed including the four black women he was talking to. Now of course we all recommend to him not to mention race at all while at work. A recommendation that we make to all. But the intent of the message was not to hurt anyone. The four people he was talking to were not offended in the least. Unfortunately a person of a different race heard the story and is raising hell in this particular workplace. This is now here fourth complaint against her black co-worker and is now crying hostile workplace. After all the facts and interviews that we have had with both white and black employees it is pretty clear that she is going out of her way to get this guy. There isn't an employee of the company male, female, black or white that has said otherwish. Unfortunately he played to his audience and is now probably going to be dismissed.

Killa I love you man, but as a human resource consultant I see this stuff all the time. It is expanding everywhere. Women, men, black, white, asian. My only advice to any of them is not to discuss race AT ALL at work regardless of content.
I just hope that people will like me
playa2
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10/3/2007  3:53 PM
I see it like this, in our culture the more money you have the more you are able to lose if you try and excercise your authority with harrassing or degrading behavior towards an employee.

Lesson learned here is shutup and zip it up, because somewhere down the road it's gonna come back to get cha.

In my company when I was in my late 20's I had a female supervisor(white women) who in front of another white female said she wish she could have me as her toy for sex in a joking manner.

She was in her late 30's at the time and was professional and all , but she told that other female she doesn't get it as much as her husband was getting older.

#1 IT TOOK ME BY SUPRISE, and I realized that I had favor with her as she always got me a raise when the time came up.

I could have sued my company bigtime , but being the only black guy I just took the favor as an advantage.

Now every yr in oct we have to be read outloud the NO DISCRIMINATION ACT and everyone has to sign that they heard the message.

She is no longer working with me , she moved to P.A , that was an experience that at 27 yrs of age I didn't know what to do.

I was flattered and thought about hitting it(i wasn't married at that time), but I wasn't getting in trouble losing my gig embarrassing my family and all.




[Edited by - PLAYA2 on 03-10-2007 16:01]

[Edited by - PLAYA2 on 03-10-2007 16:02]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
jimimou
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10/3/2007  4:06 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Anucha was considered a big rising name in the professional sports entertainment business. Listed by some as a real up and comer.

She was given raises and promotions.

Until she met Isiah.

11mil is a big number, but her career was ruined unless they were found wrong. This is not rank and file stuff here, she was a highly paid exec whom had big plans and was credible.

Nalod, I am highlighting this b/c I think it's relevant to dissect the $11 mil based on what you had said here...

Eny - look at it like this, if she's earning total comp of $335,000 per year ($260k salary plus $75k bonus), and she is what, like 40 or so? ok, so she has 20-25 yrs left in her career right and, as nailed says "had big plans" career-wise, so - if we kept her salary flat at that amount for the next 20-25 yrs, she would earn $6.7 - $8.4 mill in total comp over that 20-25 yr period right? BUT, since she did have "big plans" career-wise and was definitely looked at as someone who has extremely high potential and would make huge moves as an African American female in professional sports, then wouldn't her earning curb shift upward SIGNIFICANTLY over the next 20-25 yrs? I mean, we are paying some GM's $5-10 mill in contract money....not saying she would be GM at some point, but understanding the fact that promotions, salary raises, bonuses and even moving to a new, higher paying job based on past success - does that make the $11 mill more plausible in your mind?

I believe a report said she just got some job at a college or something. I doubt they are paying her $335k in total comp there right? I may be rambling a bit, but trying to paint the financial side of the equation from my opinion on the $11 mill settlement.
playa2
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10/3/2007  4:30 PM
The New York Daily News reported last month that Browne Sanders was turned down for jobs with Gatorade, Verizon, Georgetown University, Rutgers and her alma mater, Northwestern University, before she was hired at UB.
------------------------------------------------------------------------[b]See how nobody else hired anucka , but the folk of WNY gave her a chance and


UB hired her maybe because of what she was representing in bringing down blk male leadership who knows? I'm
suprised

nobody else hired her above if all was well with her as an excecutive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

“I’d also like to personally thank the University at Buffalo for having the courage to hire me,” she said in a statement. “They were the only organization willing to do that, and I am extremely grateful to [UB] President John Simpson and Warde Manuel.”

Manuel released a statement after the verdict.

“All of us in the Division of Athletics are thrilled to know that Anucha has been vindicated and that both her and her family have wrapped up this very difficult ordeal,” Manuel said. “We look forward to seeing her soon and, most of all, are elated that she can move on with her life and career.”

Browne Sanders, 44, was fired in February 2006 from her position as the Knicks’ vice president for marketing and business operations, a job that paid her $260,000 a year. She contended that Thomas subjected her to hostility and sexual advances starting in 2004, after he arrived as team president, and that her dismissal was in retaliation for her sexual harassment complaint. MSG countered that Browne Sanders was fired for incompetence and for interfering with the investigation of her sexual harassment complaint.

Ronald M. Green, the lawyer for Dolan and MSG, characterized Browne Sanders as being increasingly desperate to keep her job. He said that when Thomas was hired, Browne Sanders was disappointed that she was not promoted to running the business sides of the Knicks, the Rangers and the WNBA Liberty, the lawyer said.

Manuel describes Browne Sanders’ work ethic and competence as “awesome.” She was once recognized as one of Sports Business Journal’s up and coming young executives.

“Having worked directly with her for a couple of months, I think she’s extremely talented,” Manuel said on Tuesday. “She works extremely well with the leadership staff of the department, and I think her staff has welcomed her and appreciated what she brings to the table. Our leadership team, to a person, speaks very highly of her and her work with them.”

rmckissic@buffnews.com


JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
franco12
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10/3/2007  5:57 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Anucha was considered a big rising name in the professional sports entertainment business. Listed by some as a real up and comer.

She was given raises and promotions.

Until she met Isiah.

11mil is a big number, but her career was ruined unless they were found wrong. This is not rank and file stuff here, she was a highly paid exec whom had big plans and was credible.

if she has talent, she will find another job. if she is a female jock with no biz talent, she'll ride the $11mm the rest of her life.
TMS
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10/3/2007  6:16 PM
Eny, there definitely is a double standard when it comes to sexual harassment standards in the workplace for men & women... seems like women can get away with a whole heckuva lot more in terms of comments being made & bodily contact being made w/males than the other way around... it's getting to the point where you can't even stand too close to a female coworker without worrying if they'll press sexual harassment charges on you. (i'm talking in general terms here, not referring to the Anucha case)

that said, the charges that were filed against Isiah & certain other accusations made towards Marbury can be seen as being offensive to just about anyone, i think we can all agree on that... degrading anyone based on race, sex, age or sexual orientation is unacceptable no matter how you slice it, & Isiah definitely should have known better than to be making the types of unwanted forward advances to a coworker like he was accused of (if he was guilty of it that is)

[Edited by - TMS on 10-03-2007 6:20 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Vmart
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10/3/2007  6:46 PM
I often wonder how people meet and have relationships with anyone they work with. You can make a case that even asking a person for a date can be mistaken as a sextual advance especially if a person doesn't want the advance from a particular person. Just to get to a constent you kind of have to break some rules I guess. Now its like don't even ask anyone at work for a date why take the chance it could cost one his career. No one really know the rules of engagement at the work place because its really open to ones interpretation. Who knows people here keep saying the jury came away with a verdict but even they have their idea as to what sextual harrasment is it maybe different for someone elses thinking.
4949
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10/3/2007  8:42 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I'm hearing from a lot of women today that isiah deserved it because no man should treat a woman like that.

Mrs. Anunca states that she did it for all women out there to show men can't get away with stuff like this.

Everyone on tv and radio that have been calling in have been echoing the same stuff.

Now, I'm not down with abusing women, and nonsense like this have no place in society let alone the work place. Here's the but........

.........when will women decide their place in society? Are you gonna be equal all around or will you revert back to a damzel in disress when things don't go your way in order to get your way?

I can't tell you how pissed off I am about this whole thing. Its bull****.

I have experienced womans bull**** personally and professionally. To tell you the truth I'm a little fed up.

Its a double standard out there and I wish to hear others views on this case, and anything in general having to do with women and their nonsense.

Why does a personal case between Anucha and Isiah bother guys like you so much anyway?

I wonder if you would have said, what you said in the beginning of your post, if she had lost? The whole thing was wrong and everyone know it's wrong. If a man doesn't want to deal with this kind of thing, then he should be respecting the work place. This **** happens everywhere. I know a few women who went through this kind of crap. The pigs who sit behind the desk protected by the 'male code' is bull**** in itself, speaking of bull****.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/3/2007  8:47 PM
Posted by arkrud:

Women should have equal opportunities in society as man.
But women ARE different from man and I think they want to be and feel SRECIAL.
And they in fact are - mothers, spouses, and partners for man in life.
Man can be some of this for some specific group of man (and it is OK) but it is more of exception.
Women deserve more that to just be equal. And no doubt they should not be treated like at MSG.



And here's another thing. The tragedy of Dolan saying Isiah is safe sends out a very negative signal to anyone who might have been interested in working for MSG. I sure wouldn't want to work in a place full of pigs. I don't care if they learn their lesson or not. You don't work for someone, if you know something about the reputation. I hate to say it, but after todays story, this is not getting better. I'm very dissapointed. Dolan truely is the one that needs to go!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/3/2007  8:49 PM
Women are sexually harassed all the time and it shouldn't happen, but the evidence that was leaked didn't suggest isiah did anything. if anunca said it it must be true? Come on man. I worked in a hospital food service department a while back. if you been to a hospital, aside from the doctors and building services, there's not much men around. Anyway, I used to get mauled all the time in the kitchen areas, or nurses stations because of my polo sport prettyness. Women making remarks like "he's so cute", "you know you are so handsom", "is my darling back?"......or asking for hugs and kisses all the time. Rubbing up against me "by accident". Leaning on me, touching my arms and chest...........

Your kidding, right?
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/3/2007  8:54 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Unrelated to this case I 100% agree with Eny. The PC police are slowly stealing our freedom of speech. It happens everywhere. You can see it on this very site. Just think of how many unintentional comments on this site get blown into race and sex riots. In the work place we are all one innocent, harmless comment away from getting canned or sued.

You do have a mother, right? And maybe a sister? Or how bout even a daughter? I wonder what any of them would think of your comments and how they might feel about that? I never met a woman who went out of her way to sue me or anyone, or get anyone fired. That's what seperates a professioanl atomospher from a disfunctional environment. That goes back to the boss. There was obviously disfunction in MSG. That's all the courts and juries need to know.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/3/2007  11:57 PM
*If* Isiah was coming on to her, it wasn't because he was attracted to her, but because it made her uncomfortable. That's bullying behavior , and very silly for a grown man.

Very good point. It's called control. I work with a control freak, but his ability is limited, because no one likes him. So he has no leverage like he did before. But he still tries, because he's in a position of some power. He's very nice out in public at the place we all work, but with his own crew, he's a lying, back stabbing, *******, who will sell you out in a minute. I know he doesn't like kids and probably would have a problem if a woman was in charge, unless he could get something from her. No one trust's this guy, but he does whatever he can to bully people. I don't worry about it too much, because I don't have a 250 thousand dollar job or huge reputation to lose.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/3/2007  11:59 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by bitty41:

Eny

I think you have bit of a double standard. You want people to be sensitive to issues on race yet when it comes to gender issues you seem to have the "get over it" attitude. The situations that you just described if I put them in the context of racial issues would you be saying black people and their bs? For example if Isiah was a white man and Anucha is black man what if the situation was that Isiah used maybe nothing as inflammatory as the n-word but called him I don't know a monkey or a spook would you agree that is a hostile work environment? Would you think there is a cause of a discrimnation law suit?

Keep in mind that not everyone has the same sensitivity level and attitudes regarding whats appropriate in the work place. Myself I joke with my male counterparts and we pretty will discuss anything under the sun. But I always coordinate my topics of discussion to whomever my audience is and even though I may feel that a particular subject is fair game for me I realize that there are other people around and they may object to certain things.

Some of the examples that your citied no offense but how do you know thats all there was to it (the ones that you weren't personally involved with)? The reason I ask because one of my friends at work got suspended and of course he told me it was over basically nothing but in reality it of course it was something a lot more substantial than what he told me. So if you weren't there when the incident occurred whose to say what took place. Or sometimes one incident is just another one of many incidences.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 10-03-2007 12:51 PM]

All it takes is you being overheard by someone that is offended by your comments for you to find yourself in hot water. Or one of your "buddies" to change their mind about the topics you discuss. Or one argument with one of the people that you speak with at work. It will eventually get to the point where you literally can't talk about anything.

How about talk about what your being paid to talk about. Work!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/4/2007  12:20 AM
Posted by Vmart:

I often wonder how people meet and have relationships with anyone they work with. You can make a case that even asking a person for a date can be mistaken as a sextual advance especially if a person doesn't want the advance from a particular person. Just to get to a constent you kind of have to break some rules I guess. Now its like don't even ask anyone at work for a date why take the chance it could cost one his career. No one really know the rules of engagement at the work place because its really open to ones interpretation. Who knows people here keep saying the jury came away with a verdict but even they have their idea as to what sextual harrasment is it maybe different for someone elses thinking.

The rules of engagement? If you don't know how to treat someone with respect, then I or no one else can help you. You either understand that or you don't.
I'll never trust this' team again.
bitty41
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10/4/2007  8:39 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by bitty41:

Eny

I think you have bit of a double standard. You want people to be sensitive to issues on race yet when it comes to gender issues you seem to have the "get over it" attitude. The situations that you just described if I put them in the context of racial issues would you be saying black people and their bs? For example if Isiah was a white man and Anucha is black man what if the situation was that Isiah used maybe nothing as inflammatory as the n-word but called him I don't know a monkey or a spook would you agree that is a hostile work environment? Would you think there is a cause of a discrimnation law suit?

Keep in mind that not everyone has the same sensitivity level and attitudes regarding whats appropriate in the work place. Myself I joke with my male counterparts and we pretty will discuss anything under the sun. But I always coordinate my topics of discussion to whomever my audience is and even though I may feel that a particular subject is fair game for me I realize that there are other people around and they may object to certain things.

Some of the examples that your citied no offense but how do you know thats all there was to it (the ones that you weren't personally involved with)? The reason I ask because one of my friends at work got suspended and of course he told me it was over basically nothing but in reality it of course it was something a lot more substantial than what he told me. So if you weren't there when the incident occurred whose to say what took place. Or sometimes one incident is just another one of many incidences.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 10-03-2007 12:51 PM]

All it takes is you being overheard by someone that is offended by your comments for you to find yourself in hot water. Or one of your "buddies" to change their mind about the topics you discuss. Or one argument with one of the people that you speak with at work. It will eventually get to the point where you literally can't talk about anything.

How about talk about what your being paid to talk about. Work!


Thank you for stating this because if your in doubt just keep your head down and do your work and you won't have a problem.
Bippity10
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10/4/2007  12:23 PM
If you run an office where you expect people to only talk about work for 8 hours a day I can tell you that you probably won't be able to keep people around too long
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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10/4/2007  12:28 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Bippity10:

Unrelated to this case I 100% agree with Eny. The PC police are slowly stealing our freedom of speech. It happens everywhere. You can see it on this very site. Just think of how many unintentional comments on this site get blown into race and sex riots. In the work place we are all one innocent, harmless comment away from getting canned or sued.

You do have a mother, right? And maybe a sister? Or how bout even a daughter? I wonder what any of them would think of your comments and how they might feel about that? I never met a woman who went out of her way to sue me or anyone, or get anyone fired. That's what seperates a professioanl atomospher from a disfunctional environment. That goes back to the boss. There was obviously disfunction in MSG. That's all the courts and juries need to know.

I have a mother and I have a wife who I love and respect dearly but do not need to justify that to you. I have no problem with justifiable suits. If a man or woman is harrassed they have a duty to themselves and all of us to report that to make the works place a better place. I don't deny anyone that right. But I deal with this shiot everyday and I'm telling you there are a lot of cases in which people are being dragged through the mud for comments I'm sure that you and I and everyone on this site has made at work in the past week or two. All it takes is one person to take it to another level. These friovolous "let me get paid" law suits are rampant and do have an affect on your workplace whether you think they do or not. And for the record most of the guys and gals being sued/questioned in the cases I'm dealing with will be exonerated. But all will have the stigma. All it takes is one comment. And this is why unfortunately it is getting to the point where you literally can't talk about what you did last night with your wife, your daughter, your buddy. I repeat, intent is no longer important. If someone misconstrues your comment you can find yourself in trouble.
I just hope that people will like me
Killa4luv
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10/4/2007  12:37 PM
Again, from my experience with my mom who deals with cases of discrimination, people make lots and lots of bogus claims. Ive also seen people really be mistreated for various reasons. Its a case by case thing and its not going anywhere. But they need to take all of this money out of it unless you were forced into a sexual encounter, or fondled, or dealt with an ongoing pattern of verbal abuse. Anything else, you should be dealing with real damages, like missed salary and a some additional money in fines.
Bippity10
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10/4/2007  12:44 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Again, from my experience with my mom who deals with cases of discrimination, people make lots and lots of bogus claims. Ive also seen people really be mistreated for various reasons. Its a case by case thing and its not going anywhere. But they need to take all of this money out of it unless you were forced into a sexual encounter, or fondled, or dealt with an ongoing pattern of verbal abuse. Anything else, you should be dealing with real damages, like missed salary and a some additional money in fines.

I agre with you Killa. Unfortunately the frivolous calls of harrassment and racism and sexism and ageism are stealing the power and meaning away from the legitimate ones. I think you are dead on with what you said.
I just hope that people will like me
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