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Do you wear Knicks' clothing in public?
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Bonn1997
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Do you wear Knicks' clothing in public?
Yes, I'm a proud Knick fan
No, I'm too embarrassed by this franchise
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4949
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10/2/2007  9:46 PM
Just to make it clear, I do have a nice big, colorful Knicks jacket (this thing is fluffy), that I got from the NBA store on 5th (for an incredible $20.00) and a black Knicks cap with cool logo a top. They're both waiting in the closet for that next winning team to show up and clearly boycotting Dolan and Isiah.
I'll never trust this' team again.
AUTOADVERT
4949
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10/2/2007  9:48 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Solace:
At least some are finally starting to see that Isiah's era is even worse than the Layden era.[/size=1]

Whoa Solace, you really want to open up that can of worms?

OK, lets take a look:

Layden did get more wins, though that ended pretty fast after two seasons once we started depending on guys he brought in to get those wins (Anderson, Eisley, Weatherspoon, Mark Jackson, etc) Still, you have to give Specs the advantage there, although its a small one.

In terms of talent, there can be no question Isiah has done more as a GM. Expensive talent, yes, but we are still far more talented now than when Isiah took over. Advantage Isiah.

Which brings us to cap management: Personally I give both guys a pass on this because neither one sets policy on this and even the reserved Layden famously said "This team will never be under the cap". Layden signed the most infamously bad contract in the NBA (maybe all of sports), Thomas brought in a host of expensive contracts trying to amass a talented squad. We are currently about 35 million over the cap, the same as when Layden was fired. Let’s call that even.

Trades and free agent signings have been a mixed bag for either man, too complex to go into now. Judgement on Isiah’s big trade for Curry is still pending, Layden’s big trade for Antonio McDyess an unmitigated flop. Hoops hype lists Layden’s best transaction as re-signing Kurt Thomas in 2000. Isiah’s was the selection of David Lee, a pick he traded for. Advantage: Isiah.

As far as building a young core, there is simply no contest. Layden had Mike Sweetney, Milos Vujanic, Maciaj Lampe and Frank Williams to show for four years of drafting. None of those guys are still particularly active in the league, if at all. Isiah has brought in a host of young guys, some of whome are probably only scratching the surface of their potential. Big advantage to Isiah.

Public relations? I guess you have to put this one in there because of the trial. Clearly Layden's "lay low and hope nothing bad happens" approach is preferable to Isiah's, though his regime wasn't free of its own scandals.

Player relations? Has to go to Isiah. Remember when Layden was too scared of Camby to talk to him after the big fight so he sent LJ? Can you imagine Isiah Thomas doing that?

Anything else to add to the scorecard? By my count its 4-2 Isiah. Considering Layden took over a team that had just made the finals and Isiah took over a team that was 9-19 after two lottery seasons, I think you have to give Zeke the edge.

But this isn't a ringing endorsement of either man. And I still maintain that working for MSG can make any man look a fool. Isiah was just a considerably higher profile fool.


Oh' but you'll open up the can of worms for him right?!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/2/2007  9:49 PM
Posted by islesfan:

No, but I do wear Nets and Bulls gear.

You realize I absolutely hate the bulls right?
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/2/2007  9:50 PM
Posted by playa2:

I wore my knicks warmup last weekend , got a few comments .

Fellas saying they stink and ladies saying it looked nice on me.

go figure


Are you sure they weren't saying 'they stink'?!
I'll never trust this' team again.
Allanfan20
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10/3/2007  12:18 AM
I have a shirt or 2 that I wear now and then, but I haven't bought Knicks gear in awhile now. I'll buy an issue of slam magazine though, if there's a good article on a Knick.
“I couldn’t dunk it so I tried to, you know, just touched it.”- OG Anunoby
highfivesucka
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10/3/2007  12:25 AM
I have a hat I wear some times with the NYK logo and the team colors, but I don't wear it that much, not so much because I'm embarassed, just because I look stupid in hats.
^precocious neophyte.
Papabear
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10/3/2007  12:38 AM
Papabear Says

Yes I wear my Knicks gear and I will be at the opening game with thousands and thousands of Knicks fans having a great time rooting for Zeke , Marbs , Dolan , and the boys.
This case may go on for years before its over. This ain't about the money now because we know that Dolan has money to burn. They will appeal the ruling and Zeke is still the man so I think that some of you fakers start rooting for another team. As for me I'm a Knicks die hard. The Appeals court will judge with the facts. How can you find someone quilty but no punitive damage. It will be a long time before Ms Brown see any money. If she see any at all. When this is overturned and it will be. The best everyone can do is settle.
Hey why don't you guys turn your TV off when the knicks play.

Papabear
Papabear
Papabear
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10/3/2007  12:42 AM
Papabear Says

Hey if you don't want to wear you gear why do you stay on the forum like you can't get enough of the Knicks??? Reasom???? You're hooked!!!!

Papabear
Papabear
playa2
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10/3/2007  6:48 AM
Im gonna go buy some starbury's to show my solidarity
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
NineMike2Whiskey
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10/3/2007  6:51 AM
Why not, not IT nor dolan nor dumbury can ever bury this franchise!
Bonn1997
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10/3/2007  7:33 AM
Posted by Papabear:

Papabear Says

Hey if you don't want to wear you gear why do you stay on the forum like you can't get enough of the Knicks??? Reasom???? You're hooked!!!!

Papabear

The "reasom" is that I enjoy talking about basketball in general and like many of the posters here.
EnySpree
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10/3/2007  7:59 AM
I think guys take their hate for isiah and dolan go to far. That should never make you hate the knicks, especially to the point of hoping they go belly up. Joking or not. There have been more embarrising times. Larry brown I think totally divided us knick fans. I say just let it go already and enjoy the game and your team. Win or lose just be a fan. I'm a diehard, simple and plain. I will go down with the ship, and I will swim to the surface with my knicks. Keep fighting like the boys on normandy. Victory will belong to us diehards when the time comes and it will be so ****in sweet.

As for apparel? I already rocked my starburys to the practice facility. I rocked my tight ass champion mason jersey at the first bball get together. I also have a knicks towel that I use and nobody else but my son has ever used it.

This year I'm gonna go overboard with it. I'm looking to get a warm up jacket and maybe a flight jacket. I also need a bandana and a customized jersey with "Eny" on the back.

I love my knicks. Only God can judge me. "It shall be well".
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RemBee76
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10/3/2007  9:01 AM
Posted by Solace:
Disagree, but this is a useless argument that gets tired, so I'm not even going to get into it.

The most talented guy Layden acquired was Keith Van Horn. The argument really need not get more complicated than that, actually. Isiah's team’s problems have been chemistry, getting the talent to mesh. But you can't question the talent.

Posted by Solace:
How is it a tie when Isiah has been clearly worse? Isiah set NBA records for highest team salary in NBA history.

Because controlling team salary was never a concern for Isiah, just as it wasn't for Layden. Dolan said spend to win now.

Posted by Solace:
Again too complex to go into... meaning Layden has the advantage. Layden's signings were guys who made an impact. Layden's trades were bad, but Isiah's were equally bad, and in many cases, more damaging to the franchise than Layden's.

How on earth can you say "Layden's signings made an impact" when his team went from Eastern Conference Champion to two trips to the lottery in only four years? Do you mean negative impact?

Posted by Solace:
Crazy criteria. Layden was never a coach of the team, so of course Isiah is going to have better chemistry with the players. I think this category is bogus, as the conversation was Layden vs. Isiah as GM. Nobody is complaining about Isiah as a coach.

Dealing with players is almost as much of a job of the GMs as it is the coaches. When Isiah was only the GM (remember that Solace?) he was in player’s faces, and clearly voiced his opinion when things weren't going right. Layden was literally afraid to do that. You don't think that affects his job as GM? That’s bogus.

Posted by Solace:
Ahh, so the scapegoat for Isiah's incompetence is MSG? For as bad and as poorly run an organization as this is, I don't think any other GM would've put the Knicks in as big a hole as they are today.

You have absolutely no way to make that judgment. I said from the get-go that anyone who followed up Layden's mess was going to have a tough time getting this team back on its feet. With Dolan demanding a quick turn-around, that only made the job tougher.

Isiah didn't succeed, but I can easily imagine our being in a worse position right now. Especially considering this organization's historic bungling of the draft. We've done fairly well in the draft under Isiah, and instead of moving two first round draft picks for Othella Harrington we moved them for Eddy Curry.

If you can't appreciate the difference, we need go no further with this.


[Edited by - rembee76 on 10-03-2007 09:03 AM]
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Nalod
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10/3/2007  9:29 AM

I don't wear anyones colors. The only jersey I have worn is my sons hockey jersey with our name on it!

Laydens record aside, he is a good man.

Isiah is a lying two faced snake with lots of negative cred behind him and he has hit all new lows as knick president.

Layden was just the GM, not president, gm and coach.

Isiah took the payroll form and increased it 50% and took the tax to 100%. A lot of GMs could do a lot of work with a 125mil payroll. Maybe even go better than 118-181!

Under Layden even at his worst he had chaney coaching and the team as a hard working unit of professionals. Isiah has Marbury as his franchise player.

Isiah is the 5th coach in 3.5 years. Nuff said.

They both got 3.5 years at the job. If anyting, Isiah had the team at a low point which should have made the job easier.

ACtivity does not equal progress.

I expect the team to improve this year, just like the last three years.

Isiah has been a qualified disaster! Layden was not much better, but he was just GM, not president, gm and coach.

Layden had the nutty Dolan dictating many things and perhaps was fired for not pulling the marbury trade that Dolan so Starphuckidly craved.

In the end comparisions are weak, budget was different and roster constraints were different. Who pays annual $60,000,000 taxes? That is so insane by itself, that with the record we have and the noise that is MSG I think that Isiah might be the worst exec in sports history! Isiah has created an epic collossal disaster!

It has to get better, no human can possibly phuck up this bad! Personally I think they should fire him. MSG might get some backlash for not.
Solace
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10/3/2007  11:03 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

Posted by Solace:
Disagree, but this is a useless argument that gets tired, so I'm not even going to get into it.

The most talented guy Layden acquired was Keith Van Horn. The argument really need not get more complicated than that, actually. Isiah's team’s problems have been chemistry, getting the talent to mesh. But you can't question the talent.

Posted by Solace:
How is it a tie when Isiah has been clearly worse? Isiah set NBA records for highest team salary in NBA history.

Because controlling team salary was never a concern for Isiah, just as it wasn't for Layden. Dolan said spend to win now.

Posted by Solace:
Again too complex to go into... meaning Layden has the advantage. Layden's signings were guys who made an impact. Layden's trades were bad, but Isiah's were equally bad, and in many cases, more damaging to the franchise than Layden's.

How on earth can you say "Layden's signings made an impact" when his team went from Eastern Conference Champion to two trips to the lottery in only four years? Do you mean negative impact?

Posted by Solace:
Crazy criteria. Layden was never a coach of the team, so of course Isiah is going to have better chemistry with the players. I think this category is bogus, as the conversation was Layden vs. Isiah as GM. Nobody is complaining about Isiah as a coach.

Dealing with players is almost as much of a job of the GMs as it is the coaches. When Isiah was only the GM (remember that Solace?) he was in player’s faces, and clearly voiced his opinion when things weren't going right. Layden was literally afraid to do that. You don't think that affects his job as GM? That’s bogus.

Posted by Solace:
Ahh, so the scapegoat for Isiah's incompetence is MSG? For as bad and as poorly run an organization as this is, I don't think any other GM would've put the Knicks in as big a hole as they are today.

You have absolutely no way to make that judgment. I said from the get-go that anyone who followed up Layden's mess was going to have a tough time getting this team back on its feet. With Dolan demanding a quick turn-around, that only made the job tougher.

Isiah didn't succeed, but I can easily imagine our being in a worse position right now. Especially considering this organization's historic bungling of the draft. We've done fairly well in the draft under Isiah, and instead of moving two first round draft picks for Othella Harrington we moved them for Eddy Curry.

If you can't appreciate the difference, we need go no further with this.

Unfortunately, that drivel isn't worth too much of my time, but I'll address a few things. Both GMs have sucked and no, Isiah hasn't improved the team. The best team Isiah had was a few months into his first year and then he blew that with a dumb trade. All you tell me is you think Isiah is better because of your *hope* for some results, which haven't actually occured. Whatever. I'll address one point, just to demonstrate how ridiculous you're being, and everyone else can make their own judgments. You claim that Layden traded two picks for Othella, actually it was one. The other pick was a chain from an earlier blunder. Layden's trades were terrible, just like Isiah's, but let's at least talk facts. The pick used for Othella was a very late first rounder (something like 28th). The picks traded for Curry were I believe four picks, two of which were high first rounders, and two second rounders. The first rounders wound up being the #2 and #9 overall picks, and both of those picks had legitimate chances to be #1 overall (especially had we kept them). How you can not see or acknowledge this massive difference is beyond me.
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Bippity10
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10/3/2007  11:13 AM
The fact that we are even comparing Isiah to Layden and having legitimate arguments on both sides of the fence says it all.
I just hope that people will like me
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