Posted by arkrud:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by arkrud:

That information included his knowledge of the officiating crews for upcoming NBA games, the interactions between certain referees and certain players and team personnel, and the physical condition of certain players.

This statement is a killer.
In between the lines it actually means the NBA system is fundamentally flown as the things mentioned above can IN GENERAL affect the outcome of the games.
Is this even worth that the crime? Totally disgraceful...

It looks more and more convincing to me that he had associates among other referees, NBA officials, and clubs officials too.
Just knowledge of who will officiate and how players are feeling today will not make any money.
But having officials and players fixing things will. And you need somebody to set "right officials" to work on specific game. So you need somebody to arrange this.
And to know the player�s conditions you should have somebody on the team (player or coach, etc.)

A player's status is known to the team. To be honest, you can say you know just as much as any official based on coverage of a team. So basically, if he is telling them to put money on a team because Player A is on the DL is not inside information. You can get that info from any betting site or 900 number. Fantasy BB players have that same info. The fact that his work was reviewed by the league, Nunn and Jackson and was given a high rating puts doubt how much impact he really had on games. Unless you now bring those people into suspicion as well.

So why he get paid by mofos

That's why I am questioning, just how real are these guys. It kind of makes sense when they were first described as wanna be gangsters. I thought maybe he was shaving points but it looks like the NBA reviewed his games and gave him a high grade for officiating. The worst thing here is that he bet on games he officiated. Now in the grand scheme of things this could be far worst if his games weren't reviewed and audited but since they are and the NBA concluded that he was one of their better officials than that opens up questions such as that people like Ronnie Nunn and Stu Jackson would have to be involved in this mess. I know if I was paying someone to fix the game I would want a lot more than just scouting and injury reports. I have more issue with trainers giving inside tips on horse racing than that. He is trouble because he bet on his games and gave recommendations not for fixing them. At least that what he pleaded to.

Exactly...
And my point is if he never fixed the games but gets paid - somebody else did fixing.
I think he NEVER fixed the games he himself officiated. So they were reviewed and was OKed.
This is how mofos work - they are not idiots (like some other people).
His body referee (probably some gray assistant or replacement-intern) is set to work the game (probably by his body coaches union).
The guy gets his share of money, do his thing and sit quiet.
When the mofos are finally in trouble they have their e..th covered... Cool stuff...
As usual the only crime he did - he never paid taxes o this transactions. Old Gambions story.












[Edited by - arkrud on 08-16-2007 12:12 AM]

Apparently, he was only paid if his recommendation was right. That's why I said that is one of the strangest relationships I ever heard of. He had a 50% chance each time of being right. Hell, I could offer those guys the same recommendations. Also, under your scenario, the other official games are reviewed as well. See, no matter how you slice it, the way it went down there had to be major collusion not only by officials, but by top level officials, independent reviewers and now subsequently FBI investigators who claimed they have been monitoring this situation for sometime.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by playa2:

When David "the don" Stern came out and called Donaghy a rogue ref and said he believed it was an isolated case RED FLAGS went up for me right there.

How can he make a statement like that without knowing? Stern looked awful, like he knew he was done as commish, when he came to his news conference on july 20th.

In the mob , they like to use the term "betrayal" when somebody starts to snitch and this is the term Stern used against Donaghy..

Obviously there are other involved,but to drop the hammer on one saves the integriety of the game if they keep their noses clean.

I would think if an 8-10 yr marginal bench warming vet in the NBA who watch more of the game than they actually play would be interviewd with anonymity, when this case was 1st exposed they would have stated how they thought games were fixed or refs changed the outcome of games regularly.

Then Playa, you are accusing Stern, Stu Jackson, Ronnie Nunn, various members of the officiating crews and to an extent the FBI of covering up point shaving scandal. In order your theory to work, there has to be collusion from the top to point of investigation as well. I am not surprise that Hue Hollins didn't have a clue, if anything some would expect his name to be mention as a possible candidate for corruption. A very controversial official in his own right.

Posted by playa2:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by playa2:

When David "the don" Stern came out and called Donaghy a rogue ref and said he believed it was an isolated case RED FLAGS went up for me right there.

How can he make a statement like that without knowing? Stern looked awful, like he knew he was done as commish, when he came to his news conference on july 20th.

In the mob , they like to use the term "betrayal" when somebody starts to snitch and this is the term Stern used against Donaghy..

Obviously there are other involved,but to drop the hammer on one saves the integriety of the game if they keep their noses clean.

I would think if an 8-10 yr marginal bench warming vet in the NBA who watch more of the game than they actually play would be interviewd with anonymity, when this case was 1st exposed they would have stated how they thought games were fixed or refs changed the outcome of games regularly.

Then Playa, you are accusing Stern, Stu Jackson, Ronnie Nunn, various members of the officiating crews and to an extent the FBI of covering up point shaving scandal. In order your theory to work, there has to be collusion from the top to point of investigation as well. I am not surprise that Hue Hollins didn't have a clue, if anything some would expect his name to be mention as a possible candidate for corruption. A very controversial official in his own right.

Donaghy said he "was in a unique position to predict the outcome of NBA games" because he had access to information not available to the public. "As a referee, I was given access to master referee schedules that included the identities of officiating crews for particular games," he said.

Who gave Donaghy the master schedules for NBA officials?

yes this is bigger than stern thinks.

That's why I mentioned Stu Jackson and Ronnie Nunn. These gentlemen clearly have that information. So if we are to believe Hue Hollins that officials normally are not given this info then the signs point to them or their administrative people which would be extremely devastating. Forget Donaghy. Right now how the FBI laid out their case it is not devastating to the NBA.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by arkrud:

Not all games that were reviewed were ruled OK. Some was actually bad-awful but public is not aware which games and which referees.
We know that some officials was fired, suspended, or moved to officiate d-league. But who cares as long as Donaghy was not involved.
This is the key to the scheme and no need to get NBA operatives to be involved.
But Donaghy definitely may use some NBA source to get and may be influence which officials will work on which game.
I will say more. It is probably regular practice for NBA to alert games output to move NBA into direction pursuit by NBA establishment and Donaghy just decided to make some money out of it.







[Edited by - arkrud on 08-16-2007 10:20 AM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 08-16-2007 10:21 AM]

Yeah, it sounds like insider trading done by a public auditor. While troubling on its merit it is not as extreme as say same auditor cooking financial statements to profit off his inside trading. The later is far worst and calls into question the intregrity of everyone involve in the audit. That's my best comparison. But Playa could be right and there could be an ongoing investigation that we are not aware.
[/quote]

Think about it... How big is amount of money involved?
This is as juicy as it gets.
NBA is not in the same league with financials but how much more accessible for wrongdoings.
Donaghy is just the tip of the iceberg and god knows which monsters will come up if they will not fold the investigation.

Posted by Andrew:

It looks like all referees know the schedule.

The identity of the officiating crew is supposed to be kept secret until game time. But Donaghy, like all 60 NBA referees, knew the schedule and used it in his scheme.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=2976241

Somebody's lying!

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2007-08-15-donaghy-court_N.htm

Donaghy said he "was in a unique position to predict the outcome of NBA games" because he had access to information not available to the public. "As a referee, I was given access to master referee schedules that included the identities of officiating crews for particular games," he said.

Hue Hollins, who retired as an NBA referee two years ago after 27 seasons and officiating 19 NBA Finals games, said referees usually get a 30-day schedule that only includes their games and those working with them. "Somebody must have given him a master schedule," Hollins said. "I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't know who was working from one game to the next."





[Edited by - playa2 on 16-08-2007 17:43]

Posted by playa2:

Posted by Andrew:

It looks like all referees know the schedule.

The identity of the officiating crew is supposed to be kept secret until game time. But Donaghy, like all 60 NBA referees, knew the schedule and used it in his scheme.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=2976241

Somebody's lying!

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2007-08-15-donaghy-court_N.htm

Donaghy said he "was in a unique position to predict the outcome of NBA games" because he had access to information not available to the public. "As a referee, I was given access to master referee schedules that included the identities of officiating crews for particular games," he said.

Hue Hollins, who retired as an NBA referee two years ago after 27 seasons and officiating 19 NBA Finals games, said referees usually get a 30-day schedule that only includes their games and those working with them. "Somebody must have given him a master schedule," Hollins said. "I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't know who was working from one game to the next."





[Edited by - playa2 on 16-08-2007 17:43]

I don't know if you can describe Hue Hollins as totally there. Maybe he didn't care about others schedule and only his own. I know at my old firm, everyone's schedules were in a database but I checked mine and those who were working directly me on my assignments. Maybe this applied to Hollins.

"Why knowing who officiating is valuable?"

Posted by arkrud:

Why knowing who officiating is valuable?
Unless he has other referees in the "team" - this is useless info.
Only fool can think that he was working alone. Especially after the schedule thing came up.

The NBA is doomed if others were involved, this is why there was such a long delay.

The league generates too much money to go out like this, cover ups happen, unless they want to send out a message and expose big business.....ENRON, etc..

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by kam77:

No one sounds more like a fool than the conspiracy theorist. The "don" Stern.. blah blah blah... occams razor. The simplest explanation works for me until evidence is presented otherwise.

So what do you mean under "The simplest explanation" in this case?
Donaghy was fixing games for 3 years all alone and now trying to drug others into trouble with falth statements without having any prove at hand. I never noticed that he looks like an idiot.
But who knows may be he is an idiot.

Fixing games? Where has anyone accused Donaghy of fixing games? Show me where he admitted that he did that. There is the truth, and then there is assuming what is the truth. Let's not deal in assumptions. For instance, 20 other refs... did what? Occasionally play cards? Donaghy's credibility is nil and he has shown that he is a weasel so why do we take it on faith that he had 20 conspirators? I hate lazy reasoning like that.