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Would you forgive Allan...
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Nalod
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8/12/2007  9:04 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - imagine the reception for Reggie Miller as a Boston Celtic

Talking about the Layden era is so last month. Besides, it makes my head hurt.

Wilson Chandler for Mayor

man, I hope you are right about Chandler.
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misterearl
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8/12/2007  9:32 PM
(Demetris Nichols makes any Allan Houston for-free fantasy moot)

Martin - Wilson Chandler is taking minutes from someone because Isiah, and The Garden, will learn to crave his versatility.

You can take that to the bank
once a knick always a knick
martin
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8/12/2007  9:42 PM
Posted by misterearl:

(Demetris Nichols makes any Allan Houston for-free fantasy moot)

Martin - Wilson Chandler is taking minutes from someone because Isiah, and The Garden, will learn to crave his versatility.

You can take that to the bank

I just hope there is minutes. We got Q, Balk, JJ2. Yeah yeah, best 5 play.
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Allanfan20
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8/12/2007  10:47 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by joec32033:

If there is one question that I would have to know the answer to during Allan's career here, it would be why was his game so dramatically different from the 99 season to the 2000 season. Was it him or was it coaching? To me it seemed Allan was used in a much different capacity from one year to the next. I don't see how he can take all of the blame. Some blame definitely, but not all of it.
Blame everyone else and then blame the player last? There is no chance he played so well because it was his contract year? I know he is one of your favorite players but come on, everyone know athletes play harder in their contract year.

Silver, that wasn't his contract year, he was resigned in 2001, a full 2 seasons after 1999.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
misterearl
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8/12/2007  10:48 PM
Martin - the minutes are not pre-loaded for any players at this position.

Quentin Richardson must prove that his back has healed and that his outside shot is still intact

Balkman needs to prove he can distract defenders with a moderately consistent jump shot. He struggled in Las Vegas even from mid range. Three point shots are out of the question.

Jeffries must show up ready to play in October and demonstrate durability, better offensive court vision and shot selection

Wilson Chandler must prove that shooting 50% was not a fluke, play through rookie brain cramps and learn what individual referees will allow via trial and error

Now here is the question... Last but not least .... which one can pester Paul Pierce?

I still contend that employee number 21 will be nominated for employee of the week by mid-January



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COSSUCKS
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8/12/2007  11:07 PM
Forgive him? He was one of the 5-10 most important Knicks in the last 20 years. He doesnt need anyones forgeiveness least of all Knicks fans.

Maybe he should forgive you?
COSSUCKS
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8/12/2007  11:10 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

if allan houston comes back and plays for another team, when he's introduced at the garden, he will get booed and it will be quite loud.

the layden era is represented by one and only one thing - h20 and his contract.

I doubt H20 will be booed but if he is he will be in a long list of great NY athletes that have been booed by some brain dead folks. They cheer guys that do drugs, choke choachs, beat kids but H20 should be booed? Only by maggots
Allanfan20
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8/13/2007  3:07 AM
He gets boos everytime he makes an appearance. I have no doubt he'd be getting booed.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
babyKnicks
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8/13/2007  9:55 AM
anyone that joins a team just to get a ring is a loser

9 times out of 10 it fails anyway becuase the sports god's frown on such activity as well.

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
djsunyc
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8/13/2007  9:58 AM
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by djsunyc:

if allan houston comes back and plays for another team, when he's introduced at the garden, he will get booed and it will be quite loud.

the layden era is represented by one and only one thing - h20 and his contract.

I doubt H20 will be booed but if he is he will be in a long list of great NY athletes that have been booed by some brain dead folks. They cheer guys that do drugs, choke choachs, beat kids but H20 should be booed? Only by maggots

he gets some cheers now but it's mostly boos. he's not a fan favorite at the garden. don't forget he echoed charlie ward's statements about jews.
Bippity10
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8/13/2007  10:53 AM
What's with this Allan Houston always injured stuff. For the first 7 of his 9 years here he played in nearly every game. The last two seasons, yes he was always injured. But it was pretty much one injury that caused this. The same injury that actually ended his career. Why would I hold that against him?

It's amazing the reasons fans hate players. And it's also amazing how many "lovers" actually "hate" Allan Houston.
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lovespree
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8/13/2007  11:23 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

What's with this Allan Houston always injured stuff. For the first 7 of his 9 years here he played in nearly every game. The last two seasons, yes he was always injured. But it was pretty much one injury that caused this. The same injury that actually ended his career. Why would I hold that against him?

It's amazing the reasons fans hate players. And it's also amazing how many "lovers" actually "hate" Allan Houston.


I couldn've said it better myself. Injury prone? How quickly people forget.
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Pharzeone
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8/13/2007  11:43 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by djsunyc:

if allan houston comes back and plays for another team, when he's introduced at the garden, he will get booed and it will be quite loud.

the layden era is represented by one and only one thing - h20 and his contract.

I doubt H20 will be booed but if he is he will be in a long list of great NY athletes that have been booed by some brain dead folks. They cheer guys that do drugs, choke choachs, beat kids but H20 should be booed? Only by maggots

he gets some cheers now but it's mostly boos. he's not a fan favorite at the garden. don't forget he echoed charlie ward's statements about jews.

I think some Knick fans like myself expected more from Houston. The $100 million contract only added to his issues. When he arrived, it took him a season just to get use to being a Knick. He was booed at the Garden as well as at the Palace. I remember watching many games early in his Knick career where Starks, Oakley and Ewing would scream at him to just shoot the ball. Houston's personality was not suited for his early part of his career. He seem to find himself after Starks was traded which I think Grunfeld intended to do but with the emergence of Spree as not only an offensive player but also a very good defensive player the question always persisted would the team be better if one of them were gone. Many fans hold Houston responsible as a reason why Spree was traded and his relationship with Dolan. And then there are the Jew statements in the locker room. Other than 1999 first round, he was never really considered a clutch player. Never really lead the Knicks by himself, not until the 2003 season which was a bad record until Layden was fired and went out with his injury.
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RemBee76
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8/13/2007  12:02 PM
The only problem I had with Allan Houston is that he never should have been in the position of this team’s franchise player, both by virtue of the $100 million max contract and by default; simply being the best player we had on the court at any given moment. Neither is on him. We had a GM and ownership clueless enough to give him a max contract when there were no other serious bidders for his services, and Layden was not aggressive enough in acquiring talent, especially when it was clear that Sprewell had lost a step.

When we finally acquired Marbury to form a back-court pairing that showed promise Houston had to bow out of the game with his injury. An injury which, by the way, isn’t on him either. He played all that season, and the season before, while injured, pushed to do so because he was the only thing still keeping this franchise afloat.

It wasn’t Allan Houston’s decision to pay him 20 mill a year, and it wasn’t his decision to try and continue to muddle along as a less-than mediocre franchise resting on the knees of a fading all-star. Houston didn’t have the talent to carry this team to success all by himself, but you can’t ever accuse him, certainly not in his later years here anyway, of not doing everything he could to max out the talent he did have. If the Garden “faithful” boo him upon his return to MSG then only more reason to dispute the claim that they are the most knowledgeable fans in the game.
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Bippity10
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8/13/2007  12:24 PM
I'm with you RemBee. I personally never loved his game. I was frustrated at his one dimensionality. But geez. the guy did well for us. He hit one of the biggest shots in the past 30 years and helped to lead us to the finals in '99. Top that off with him being giving his all 100% of the time and I can't really find reason to boo or to hate him.

The anger with Allan is because of the contract and the placement of him as a franchise player. This was management's fault and not Allan Houston's. Do fans really expect him to turn down that contract? Charlie Ward would have accepted it. Howard Eisley would have accepted it. Any player in the NBA would have accepted it, so why hate Allan for not turning it down. It was management's fault for putting the contract together and mislabeling Allan as a star.

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COSSUCKS
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8/13/2007  1:26 PM
The guy blew out his knees trying to carry this team on his back despite already being injured. How can anyone hate him for that? It seemed like he took on Kobe and the Lakers single handedly one game. Knicks fans that boo him are out of their freaking minds. No wonder so many people nationwide have such a negative view of New Yorkers.
Silverfuel
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8/13/2007  1:54 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by djsunyc:

if allan houston comes back and plays for another team, when he's introduced at the garden, he will get booed and it will be quite loud.

the layden era is represented by one and only one thing - h20 and his contract.

I doubt H20 will be booed but if he is he will be in a long list of great NY athletes that have been booed by some brain dead folks. They cheer guys that do drugs, choke choachs, beat kids but H20 should be booed? Only by maggots

he gets some cheers now but it's mostly boos. he's not a fan favorite at the garden. don't forget he echoed charlie ward's statements about jews.

I think some Knick fans like myself expected more from Houston. The $100 million contract only added to his issues. When he arrived, it took him a season just to get use to being a Knick. He was booed at the Garden as well as at the Palace. I remember watching many games early in his Knick career where Starks, Oakley and Ewing would scream at him to just shoot the ball. Houston's personality was not suited for his early part of his career. He seem to find himself after Starks was traded which I think Grunfeld intended to do but with the emergence of Spree as not only an offensive player but also a very good defensive player the question always persisted would the team be better if one of them were gone. Many fans hold Houston responsible as a reason why Spree was traded and his relationship with Dolan. And then there are the Jew statements in the locker room. Other than 1999 first round, he was never really considered a clutch player. Never really lead the Knicks by himself, not until the 2003 season which was a bad record until Layden was fired and went out with his injury.
agreed. good post.
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sebstar
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8/13/2007  3:35 PM
Posted by Bippity10:


The anger with Allan is because of the contract and the placement of him as a franchise player. This was management's fault and not Allan Houston's. Do fans really expect him to turn down that contract? Charlie Ward would have accepted it. Howard Eisley would have accepted it. Any player in the NBA would have accepted it, so why hate Allan for not turning it down. It was management's fault for putting the contract together and mislabeling Allan as a star.

Awfully naive. Nobody is "blaming" him, and nobody is saying he shouldnt have signed that contract, but signing such a deal, especially in an arena as public as NY, carries an inordinate amount of responsibility and puts said player on front street. Houston has become a representative of the Layden era and probably for good reason.

Houston obviously had managements ear, and as a result we saw a high concentration of softy, church boy types that had about as much edge as a nerf ball, but packed plenty of bad b-ball. It seemed like a dolan-layden-houston triumvirate of morals through the church prism. What happened to the separation of church and state!!

Innuendo aside, the bottom line is that Houston did not live up to the 156 million we paid him, and its not unreasonable for fans to harbor resentment and disappointment. Now if he comes back and plays for us in an effort to give back and help take us to the next level --- great, but if he has the nerve to suit up for anyone else, then he deserves all the scorn and ridicule NY'ers can muster.



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lovespree
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8/13/2007  3:57 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:


The anger with Allan is because of the contract and the placement of him as a franchise player. This was management's fault and not Allan Houston's. Do fans really expect him to turn down that contract? Charlie Ward would have accepted it. Howard Eisley would have accepted it. Any player in the NBA would have accepted it, so why hate Allan for not turning it down. It was management's fault for putting the contract together and mislabeling Allan as a star.

Awfully naive. Nobody is "blaming" him, and nobody is saying he shouldnt have signed that contract, but signing such a deal, especially in an arena as public as NY, carries an inordinate amount of responsibility and puts said player on front street. Houston has become a representative of the Layden era and probably for good reason.

Houston obviously had managements ear, and as a result we saw a high concentration of softy, church boy types that had about as much edge as a nerf ball, but packed plenty of bad b-ball. It seemed like a dolan-layden-houston triumvirate of morals through the church prism. What happened to the separation of church and state!!

Innuendo aside, the bottom line is that Houston did not live up to the 156 million we paid him, and its not unreasonable for fans to harbor resentment and disappointment. Now if he comes back and plays for us in an effort to give back and help take us to the next level --- great, but if he has the nerve to suit up for anyone else, then he deserves all the scorn and ridicule NY'ers can muster.




That's crazy....He did not live up to the 156 million. I beg to differ. Houston was not paid the $156 based on his potential. He was paid the 156 based on his past performances. He was paid for the type of player he was (one-demsional, jump shooter..whatever you want to call him). I don't think management was that stupid to believe that BECAUSE of the money he was going to all of a sudden turn into a different player (slasher, defender, etc.). They paid Houston, and by most opionons over-paid, to do what he did in the past and what he continoued to do after his contract - shoot jump shots. If he were to do things differently, defend a little, develop a post-up game, that would have just been the gravy on the top!
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Bippity10
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8/13/2007  5:04 PM
Yeah I don't get SEbstar's point. WE overpaid for him. Fans can hold a grudge all they want for him being paid that amount. And I know NY fans will hold a grudge. It's still wrong, and I personally find no reason to hold anything against him. He was a one dimensional jumpshooter before the contract and he remained one after. If you were duped into thinking his game was going to morph into a superstar just because he received the money than that's too bad.

I blame Layden for that roster(which so far has outperformed our current one). Not Allan HOuston
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Would you forgive Allan...

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