[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

ARTICLE: The Iron Law of NBA Championships
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Nalod
Posts: 72430
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
8/2/2007  6:41 PM
That was a very good article.



Plan A: Rebuild on the fly with the leadership of TimothyLearyBury.

Plan B: change gears and go with the NOW with Eddy, Franny and Larry.

Plan C: Stay pat and let the Gel. Get fiscal order and plan on getting under the cap. No trades, Isiah at the Helm.

Plan D: Doc Denies Dolan Ridlin and lets Isiah take on salary and goes back to plan B but adds to the diet a dose of moral fiber by including Zach to help those that miss Francis, Penny, Rose and TT. Maybe Dolan really misses spree? Tyson was good for boxing, why not set Zach lose in NYC?
Maybe in a few years he can visit europe but instead come back and claim his love to play in Amsterdam with its renaissance masters behold in the finest museums, the Hague, dikes (water ones!!!) legal hashish and available stable of unlimited "better ho's!".

All this which is 45 players changes, 5 coaching changes (head coaches), one nasty sexual harassment suite, and all the cheap sneaks you can eat in Coney Island!

NYK: Nice and Nasty!

Leave it to Isiah to make Danny Freaking Ainge look good!
AUTOADVERT
izybx
Posts: 22366
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 10/16/2006
Member: #1178
USA
8/2/2007  6:48 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

As far as I see it, if you don't have a top 10 player in the league, you won't even sniff at a title.

We don't even have a top 20 player...



And for clarification, here's the top 10 players in the league:


Nash
Kobe
Lebron
TD
KG
Wade
Dirk
Shaq
Yao
TMac


Guys like Dwight, Oden, or Melo might sneak in at some point in their careers, but that's the list, and it's really not arguable.

I would take shaq off that list
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172
8/2/2007  6:55 PM
Posted by Solace:

Hey bobs, I think the scary part is that you could argue that Zach Randolph is the best player on the team.

Probably the realist thing ever said on this board in a while. Stat Whore is head and shoulders better than any other player on our squad and yet he's a loser.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Solace
Posts: 30004
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
8/2/2007  7:04 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Solace:

Hey bobs, I think the scary part is that you could argue that Zach Randolph is the best player on the team.

Probably the realist thing ever said on this board in a while. Stat Whore is head and shoulders better than any other player on our squad and yet he's a loser.

Welcome to Knicks-land. Most teams have a top-player better than Zach (and that's not a knock on Zach). We continue to have these discussions and somehow the principles escape people. Then, to cover up their weak arguments, they start making up things to claim I said things which I never did. It's quite disgusting and frankly, I consider that behavior abusive and trollish.
The Knicks 2026 NBA Champions!
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
8/2/2007  8:57 PM
Posted by izybx:

I would take shaq off that list

As long as Shaq helps fat kids get into shape, he'll be top 10.


An old and fat Shaq is still better and more dominant than 90% of the league.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08-02-2007 8:58 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/2/2007  10:22 PM
Posted by Solace:

Hey bobs, I think the scary part is that you could argue that Zach Randolph is the best player on the team.
I think Lee has the most positive impact on the game. Zach is a more polished player, though, and will probably always be a better scorer than Lee
Solace
Posts: 30004
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
8/2/2007  10:24 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

Hey bobs, I think the scary part is that you could argue that Zach Randolph is the best player on the team.
I think Lee has the most positive impact on the game. Zach is a more polished player, though, and will probably always be a better scorer than Lee

Either way. Do we have a top 25 NBA player? I don't think so. Top 40? Maybe.
The Knicks 2026 NBA Champions!
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
8/2/2007  10:33 PM
I think its debatable to say that Ray Allen and KG are in their prime.

Both have played a ton of minutes- KG has been healthy, but he could start breaking down.

Prime for pro athletes is 28. Older for big men because they take longer to develop- but KG came in from HS and he didn't take long to develop.
Vmart
Posts: 31801
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
8/2/2007  10:41 PM
You need a top superstar to win in the NBA we knew that everyone knows that and yet Detroit won a championship. Crazy stuff right there. Yeah it helps to have a Superstar because Superstars get the call when it counts, but why does everyone here give up on what the Knicks have. Zach is a star player but you guys reduce his accomplishment by calling him a stat whore and what not. 23-10 thats legit star numbers folks. Curry is coming into his own and showed great improvement yet everyone thinks he reached his ceiling why? He probably is going to have a better year than last. You have a second year player who played double double basketball last year and yet he will never be a star in the league according to people on the board. This again is the grass is greener on the other side theory. You guys want superstars but you don't have the patients to wait for our players to become one. You want instant championship like the one everyone is giving the Celtics, when a move is made here it is called Starphuking or whatever you guys call it. Man make up your freaking minds already do you want to develop a team from within or you want Isiah to go out and get you the star players. Because anyway he does it you guys will fault him reguardless. You guys are always going to look at any deal that other teams make and say why Isiah couldn't get a better deal like they got. Well KG wasn't aviable to the Knicks, why is it hard for you guys to accept that this is a buddy deal and deal between friends and Isiah isn't part of that friend circle.

The Knicks have star players and quite possibly superstar like players on the roster but who here is willing to wait on them. I can wait on them thats for sure and you can see them grow before your own eyes especially if you aren't blinded by what other teams do. The Knicks will be vastly competitve than last year I think we all can sense that, but some like I said wouldn't be happy even if KG became a Knick because they would cpmplain that the Knicks are killing te cap and then they are just doing what they did before going after stars.

Folks here don't even know how to like a decent deal when it is made.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
8/2/2007  11:14 PM
Zach Randolph will in all likelyhood never see the light of All-Star day.

Same for Curry.


I'd honestly be surprised if either ever made it to one All-Star game; it would probly have to be off an injury or something.


I mean has anyone considered that the 2 of them are in DIRECT competition with eachother for an All-Star spot.


Since neither does anything particularly good WITHOUT the ball, like run, defend, pass, set screens,etc......they're basically gonna steal production from eachother since they're essentially only productive with the ball in their hands.


Look at a guy like REggie Miller. The guy made the All-Star team like only 3 times.

This is Reggie "Knick Killer" Miller we're talking here. And he may not even make it into the HoF, despite some crazy playoff performances.


Know why? He was almost useless without the ball in his hands...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
8/2/2007  11:19 PM
Btw, this article was basically based off a similiar from over a year ago, which I remember reading:


http://www.nbadraft.net/mcchesney001.asp
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
8/2/2007  11:27 PM
I think the point here is that, if you're a REALLY smart GM, based on history, and what kind of franchise player you have currently, you can tell what kind of supporting cast you'll need.

Guys like Kidd and Ewing never won a ring because they were JUST a shade under being among the elite of all time (that list belongs to 20 or so guys ranging from Jabbar down to Moses).


And b/c of not being QUITE as great as the greats above them, and not having a solid supporting cast, they never won.


On the other hand, look at Willis Reed. KG won an MVP just like Willis did, but the one thing Willis had that KG NEVER has is a GREAT supporting cast around him.


Depth doesn't always matter, but having some All-Star type guys to fall back on in the starting lineup is pertinent unless you're a Jordan or Bird or Wilt. (not that those guys DIDN'T have it, but it makes them even more important for players like Kidd and Ewing to overcome the Jordans and Duncans).


What we need to do is cut out all the bull****, get a franchise player (a legit top 5-10 player), and just build around him with the best veteran talent possible.


That's why Ewing and Kidd lost. Each of their teams' 2nd best player was barely even an All-Star during their time...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172
8/2/2007  11:28 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

Hey bobs, I think the scary part is that you could argue that Zach Randolph is the best player on the team.
I think Lee has the most positive impact on the game. Zach is a more polished player, though, and will probably always be a better scorer than Lee

Either way. Do we have a top 25 NBA player? I don't think so. Top 40? Maybe.

Let's forget about Top 25 or Top 40 because fans have far different standards when ranking players. Here's another humbling thought we still don't have a FRANCHISE PLAYER even after trading for a player who is better than the other players on this team.

It starts with having a FRANCHISE PLAYER
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
8/2/2007  11:28 PM
Of course the other option is to orgainze the best defense in the league, and roll the dice (like Seattle, Detroit, and currently now Chicago)...


But that's just as hard anyway, b/c you'll almost always need a DPOY caliber player on your team, and elite defense at pretty much every position...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2005
Member: #910
USA
8/2/2007  11:50 PM
We certainly have two franchise players and a top 25 player in Zach and Curry. Curry is a young beast and that makes him a franchise player.

All the championship talk, or even the contention talk: its an attitude. If these guys all get going in the same direction we would be golden in the East, butso much of that rides on Steph and Craw controlling themselves and the team. And Steph... He be crazy...
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
8/3/2007  12:01 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

We certainly have two franchise players and a top 25 player in Zach and Curry. Curry is a young beast and that makes him a franchise player.

All the championship talk, or even the contention talk: its an attitude. If these guys all get going in the same direction we would be golden in the East, butso much of that rides on Steph and Craw controlling themselves and the team. And Steph... He be crazy...





Is this guy for real?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
8/3/2007  12:08 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

We certainly have two franchise players and a top 25 player in Zach and Curry. Curry is a young beast and that makes him a franchise player.

All the championship talk, or even the contention talk: its an attitude. If these guys all get going in the same direction we would be golden in the East, butso much of that rides on Steph and Craw controlling themselves and the team. And Steph... He be crazy...

Yeah Steph may be crazy, but if he plays like he did for most of the season, from the very start, this team should be right there with the best in the East. He seems to still be in the right frame of mind in terms of making sure the big guys get touches.

I hope Curry really has been working on his overall game and getting in better shape. Just imagine if this guy actually comes in physically and mentally ready. So far he seems to be showing that he's serious. We'll see.

The Franchise player tag is tough to pin down. So many people have different views on the qualifications. Good Teams win regardless, but Title history does lean towards teams that have great HOF players on the Roster.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
8/3/2007  12:11 AM
Posted by nixluva:


The Franchise player tag is tough to pin down. So many people have different views on the qualifications. Good Teams win regardless, but Title history does lean towards teams that have great HOF players on the Roster.


No it's not. It's not hard to pin down at all. Perennial All-NBA and MVP vote-getters are franchise players.


You're not gonna see Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry, or Stephon Marbury be that ever.


How can you guys be so delusional?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
8/3/2007  12:20 AM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by nixluva:


The Franchise player tag is tough to pin down. So many people have different views on the qualifications. Good Teams win regardless, but Title history does lean towards teams that have great HOF players on the Roster.


No it's not. It's not hard to pin down at all. Perennial All-NBA and MVP vote-getters are franchise players.


You're not gonna see Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry, or Stephon Marbury be that ever.


How can you guys be so delusional?

Is this the official NBA definition? This is your personal set of qualifications. This is not to say that your wrong, but my point is that there are those who might have a different view of that than you.

There have been many who have been calling Steph the franchise player for this team and that had a lot to do with him being the highest paid player as well as his being considered the best player on the team. They never mentioned anything about being All NBA or an MVP vote getter.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
8/3/2007  12:24 AM
^ The people who called Stephon a franchise player were Isiah, Dolan, and you.


And that's pretty much it.


If you're a delusional homer that's fine, and James Dolan thanks you, but Stephon Marbury is not now, nor has he ever been, a franchise player.


He's a 3 time All-Star, and has only been on the All-NBA 3rd team twice.


Plus he's not a leader, nor is he clutch.


And make no mistake about it, my "definition" of what a franchise player is is undeniable.


The problem you're making is assuming the best player on each team is a franchise player.


Dude, some teams don't even HAVE a franchise player. Some teams just peg a guy like Stephon their "franchise player" for the hell of it, b/c they're idiots, or b/c they need a face for their product to sell to fans.


Unfortunately some fans buy into that crap...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Page 2 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
ARTICLE: The Iron Law of NBA Championships
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy