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Boston focusing on Dikembe Mutumbo
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Solace
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8/1/2007  3:10 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:

Which porves the point even further that it is hard to land a franchise player let alone 2 or 3. With that said, who are these franchise players that Isiah missed on?

Um... ALLEN AND KG?

Honestly, it's been spelled out for the lovers NUMEROUS times. Yet, every time they keep asking who. I don't think they listen, so it's probably not worth the energy.

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islesfan
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8/1/2007  3:14 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:

Getting role players is the easy part compared with finding a franchise player. Or 3.

Why do we keep doing it backwards?

When you have the franchise players in place, role player will want to come there. Even at a discount.When all you have are role players, franchise players will want nothing to do with you. Which works out great, because no GM will trade their franchise players for your role players anyway.


BS... tell that to Ewing

They didn't build championship contending teams around Ewing???

Check the Knicks teams in the decade prior to Ewing and since he retired.


no don't twist the argument. You said that FA would be flocking to your team if you had a franchise player, even at a discount, and that is not true. we had to overpay for Houston, and childs (houston twice) we had to trade for LJ who came with a hefty contract. we picked starks up off the scrap heap, and guys like Newman and Gerald wilking were obtained late in the draft or off the "unwanted" list...

tell me one guy who signed as a FA with the knicks for a discount to play with Ewing?

Geez, now who's twisting the argument.

I never said they ALWAYS come at a discount. They come in all kind of ways. The draft, free agency, the scrap heap. You don't need premium draft picks and trade away future all stars to get them, the way you do franchise players. i.e. it's easier to find role players.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
bigbeast
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8/1/2007  3:21 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:

Which porves the point even further that it is hard to land a franchise player let alone 2 or 3. With that said, who are these franchise players that Isiah missed on?

Um... ALLEN AND KG?

Who or what combo of players on this roster would have enabled us to land KG or Allen? We didn't have a top 5 pick to give....and depending on what you feel about Curry, we dont have that budding franchise player in Jefferson to give up. I doubt Mchale is running to phone to get ahold of Craw or Q. So who do we give up to land these franchise players?

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 3:21 PM]

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 3:23 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Panos
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8/1/2007  3:23 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:

Which porves the point even further that it is hard to land a franchise player let alone 2 or 3. With that said, who are these franchise players that Isiah missed on?

Um... ALLEN AND KG?

Who or what combo of players on this roster would have enabled us to land KG?

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 3:21 PM]

With any combination of all the "ASSETS" Zeke has supposedly acquired.
Stop arguing both sides of the coin!
bigbeast
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8/1/2007  3:34 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:

Which porves the point even further that it is hard to land a franchise player let alone 2 or 3. With that said, who are these franchise players that Isiah missed on?

Um... ALLEN AND KG?

Who or what combo of players on this roster would have enabled us to land KG?

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 3:21 PM]

With any combination of all the "ASSETS" Zeke has supposedly acquired.
Stop arguing both sides of the coin!

Its not arguing both sides of the coin, its just that the assets we have are either roles players (which again proves the point that it is easier to land role players), or has-been allstars (Marb). The budding allstar we do have in Zach has major issues that a team like Minny or seattle that is rebuilding wouldn't touch.

Now, next year is the make or break year for Isiah in my opinion. Its obvious Isiahs plan from day one was to collect enough assets to make a push for a superstar. Next year, everything lines up for Isiah to make a move with Marb and Rose expiring. It gives Isiah the big salaries to match up with a star's slary in return. We have our own draft pick next year and he can include Lee and Balk in that package, (However, neither are the budding possible franchise player that Jefferson is). Its no slam dunk, but if the stars ever lined up for Isiah, it will be next year. If he can't pull off a move next summer, and we are still stuck in no-mans land in terms of being an end of the lotto team that just misses a playoff berth, then its def time for Dolan to look elsewhere.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 3:36 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Panos
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8/1/2007  3:37 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:

Which porves the point even further that it is hard to land a franchise player let alone 2 or 3. With that said, who are these franchise players that Isiah missed on?

Um... ALLEN AND KG?

Who or what combo of players on this roster would have enabled us to land KG?

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 3:21 PM]

With any combination of all the "ASSETS" Zeke has supposedly acquired.
Stop arguing both sides of the coin!

Its not arguing both sides of the coin, its just that the assets we have are either roles players (which again proves the point that it is easier to land role players), or has-been allstars (Marb). The budding allstar we do have in Zach has major issues that a team like Minny or seattle that is rebuilding wouldn't touch.

Now, next year is the make or break year for Isiah in my opinion. Its obvious Isiahs plan from day one was to collect enough assets to make a push for a superstar. Next year, everything lines up for Isiah to make a move with Marb and Rose expiring. It gives Isiah the big salaries to match up with a star's slary in return. We have our own draft pick next year and he can include Lee and Balk in that package, (However, neither are the budding possible franchise player that Jefferson is). Its no slam dunk, but if the stars ever lined up for Isiah, it will be next year. If he can't pull off a move next summer, and we are still stuck in no-mans land, then its def time for Dolan to look elsewhere.

Let me ask you something. What special advantage has Boston had over the last three years that
allowed them to accumulate the packages that they needed to trade for Allen and KG that were not
at Zeke's disposal?
Solace
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8/1/2007  3:44 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:

Which porves the point even further that it is hard to land a franchise player let alone 2 or 3. With that said, who are these franchise players that Isiah missed on?

Um... ALLEN AND KG?

Who or what combo of players on this roster would have enabled us to land KG or Allen? We didn't have a top 5 pick to give....and depending on what you feel about Curry, we dont have that budding franchise player in Jefferson to give up. I doubt Mchale is running to phone to get ahold of Craw or Q. So who do we give up to land these franchise players?

Can't you see the possibility that the fact that we didn't have these assets you mentioned, as the reason why Isiah Thomas's plan has a GLARING deficiency? Minnesota wouldn't even talk to us. Why is that?
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bigbeast
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8/1/2007  3:50 PM
First off, Boston had thier own lotto pick to deal while we gave ours to Chicago. Keeping thier own pick (with a little bit of tanking during the season which enabled them to secure at least a top five pick) allowed them to get Allen.

Second, they had a young player finally develop into a possible franchise player in Jefferson. Lee, Balk or even Frye dont have the same potential as Jefferson.

However I will say this, when Frye was having his break-out rookie season, I was on record as saying I would move him for Artest when he was being shopped by the Pacers. In retrospect, Isiah blundered on that one.



[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 4:05 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Panos
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8/1/2007  3:52 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

First off, Boston had thier own lotto pick to deal while we gave ours to Chicago. Keeping thier own pick (with a little bit of tanking during the season which enabled them to secure at least a top five pick) allowed them to get Allen.

Second, they had a young player finally develop into a possible franchise player in Jefferson. Lee, Balk or even Frye dont have the same potential as Jefferson.

However I will say this, when Frye was having his break-out rookie season, I was on record as saying I would move him for Artest when he was being shopped by the Pacers. In retrospeact, Isiah blundered on that one.

Ok, so who arranged to give our pick to Chicago? Why did we not have a "Jefferson" on the team?
Solace
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8/1/2007  3:59 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:

First off, Boston had thier own lotto pick to deal while we gave ours to Chicago. Keeping thier own pick (with a little bit of tanking during the season which enabled them to secure at least a top five pick) allowed them to get Allen.

Second, they had a young player finally develop into a possible franchise player in Jefferson. Lee, Balk or even Frye dont have the same potential as Jefferson.

However I will say this, when Frye was having his break-out rookie season, I was on record as saying I would move him for Artest when he was being shopped by the Pacers. In retrospeact, Isiah blundered on that one.

Ok, so who arranged to give our pick to Chicago? Why did we not have a "Jefferson" on the team?

You beat me to it. Isn't Isiah responsible for not having the assets as he's the one who traded them away?
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bigbeast
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8/1/2007  4:04 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by bigbeast:

First off, Boston had thier own lotto pick to deal while we gave ours to Chicago. Keeping thier own pick (with a little bit of tanking during the season which enabled them to secure at least a top five pick) allowed them to get Allen.

Second, they had a young player finally develop into a possible franchise player in Jefferson. Lee, Balk or even Frye dont have the same potential as Jefferson.

However I will say this, when Frye was having his break-out rookie season, I was on record as saying I would move him for Artest when he was being shopped by the Pacers. In retrospeact, Isiah blundered on that one.

Ok, so who arranged to give our pick to Chicago? Why did we not have a "Jefferson" on the team?

Isiah blundered by not lotto protecting the pick he gave to the Bulls and I said as much when that trade went down. Im not trying to defend Isiah in that aspect.

The question shouldn't be why we dont have a Jefferson on the team because one can argue that with Curry's emergence as a dominant low post scorer, his reasonable contract, and his age, that he has as much potential as Jefferson. So if Isiah wanted, I guess he could include Curry in a package with Lee and Balk and it might look a little more attractive.

But the better question is where is our Paul Pierce? Boston can afford to move Jefferson becuase they still have Pierce to team up with who ever they were able to land in a trade for Jefferon which turned out to be Garnett. Packaging Curry in a trade with the other assets we have would be damning because who are you going to team up the star player with on our team with no more Curry? Marb?

So to sum it all up, Curry is kind of-sort of our Jefferson. But we dont have a Pierce.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-08-2007 4:06 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
tkf
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8/1/2007  4:10 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:

Getting role players is the easy part compared with finding a franchise player. Or 3.

Why do we keep doing it backwards?

When you have the franchise players in place, role player will want to come there. Even at a discount.When all you have are role players, franchise players will want nothing to do with you. Which works out great, because no GM will trade their franchise players for your role players anyway.


BS... tell that to Ewing

They didn't build championship contending teams around Ewing???

Check the Knicks teams in the decade prior to Ewing and since he retired.


no don't twist the argument. You said that FA would be flocking to your team if you had a franchise player, even at a discount, and that is not true. we had to overpay for Houston, and childs (houston twice) we had to trade for LJ who came with a hefty contract. we picked starks up off the scrap heap, and guys like Newman and Gerald wilking were obtained late in the draft or off the "unwanted" list...

tell me one guy who signed as a FA with the knicks for a discount to play with Ewing?

Geez, now who's twisting the argument.

I never said they ALWAYS come at a discount. They come in all kind of ways. The draft, free agency, the scrap heap. You don't need premium draft picks and trade away future all stars to get them, the way you do franchise players. i.e. it's easier to find role players.

No you are twisting the argument man. Tell me, how many players are dying to go play for the lakers at a discount? the best you will get most of the times are guys that are near the end of their careers who have a little juice left and are looking to fill a role or ride a coat tail to win..

Now you are talking about drafts, blah, blah.. no we are talking free agents, that was your comment... now back it up and stop bobbing and weaving..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
GoNyGoNyGo
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8/1/2007  11:46 PM
Hey getting Garnett is a score for Boston, no doubt. The move I am not sure about is Allen. He is missing like 25 games a year now. Pierce is great and so is KG but in the clutch Allen is the guy. If he is healthy, the Celts will be very good. If not, they are average. No bench. And don't tell me HOUSE, come on now! The Celts will need depth because all the main dudes are over 30....& can't bring it every night like they used to.


All that being said, the East is theirs to lose. NY is 2nd. Toronto 3rd, NJ 4th.
bobs3304
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8/1/2007  11:56 PM
Perkins, Deke
KG, Big Baby, etc, etc.
Pierce, Scalibrine
Allen, T. Allen
Rondo, House



If New Jersey was able to get to the 2nd round with a Big 3 and no bench, imagine what THAT Big 3 can do...


ECF at the least.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
chislic
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8/2/2007  12:34 AM
Posted by Andrew:

KGs good friend Troy Hudson was bought out.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/nba/wires/07/31/2030.ap.bkn.timberwolves.hudson.0330/

This was actually mentioned on the local news the other night. Sounds like it's a very real possibility.

Bippity10
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8/2/2007  9:37 AM
The jury is out on Boston. They still need to learn how to gel and to stay healthy. I agree with everyone on this. They look great on paper but they have a ways to go before we declare themselves great. That being said, if we had any combination of 1,2 or 3 of those players we would be shioting ourselves. Yet we still find it easy to find the pessimistic side for Boston. Spoken like true Knick fans.
I just hope that people will like me
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