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fmoran
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5/19/2003  8:25 PM
Posted by Andrew:

Playing young guys really didn't have anything to do with JVG....its ther New York win now attitude. Riley didn't do it, JVG didn't, Don Chaney didn't give FWilliams any time.
FWilliams deserves playing time like Tractor Traylor deserves a doughnut. Or Lenny Wilkens deserves a job. Or the Atlanta Hawks deserve fans.

[Edited by - fmoran on 05/19/2003 20:26:23]
go knicks!
AUTOADVERT
tkf
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5/19/2003  9:49 PM
Posted by fmoran:
Posted by Andrew:

Playing young guys really didn't have anything to do with JVG....its ther New York win now attitude. Riley didn't do it, JVG didn't, Don Chaney didn't give FWilliams any time.
FWilliams deserves playing time like Tractor Traylor deserves a doughnut. Or Lenny Wilkens deserves a job. Or the Atlanta Hawks deserve fans.

[Edited by - fmoran on 05/19/2003 20:26:23]

on a team that has Howard Eisley starting at PG, to say F williams should not get any playing time is way off... From what i have seen so far, williams is bigger, a better defender and more creative, for christ sakes these are the knicks a team that is not much better than a rebuilding team at this point, guys like Williams should be playing...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
playa2
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5/20/2003  7:17 AM
Word on the street has vandunce going to Cleveland. I hope he goes there lebron or not. That is a team that mainly consist of young players with talent. BOOZER, WAGNER, BIG Z, RICKY DAVIS, DARIUS MILES (young bucks) something he can't coach. This would put my theory to the test,if vandummy goes there to coach, you gonna have to get a mussle to keep me quiet from ripping this 95 Honda Civic driving , Diet Coke drinking, beetle juice looking rat of a coach jeff vangundy ! His ego and arrogance is what has made me his #1 hater, along with ewing's ego those two stopped nellie from being the knicks head coach for many yrs . The way Nelson understands talent and with Dolan Kicking out$$$$ the way he has (in the past ) who knows how many championship runs we would have had now. NELSON KNEW THE FUTURE OF THE GAME IN THE NBA AND VANGUMBY WAS COACHING IN THE PAST. Think about this Nellie(COACH) and Grunfeld (GM)running the knicks This is the real reason why I dislike Vandummy, contruary to "CLONES BELIEFS UP IN HERE WHO THINK THEY KNOW MY MOTIVES.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
tkf
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5/20/2003  8:45 AM
Posted by playa2:

Word on the street has vandunce going to Cleveland. I hope he goes there lebron or not. That is a team that mainly consist of young players with talent. BOOZER, WAGNER, BIG Z, RICKY DAVIS, DARIUS MILES (young bucks) something he can't coach. This would put my theory to the test,if vandummy goes there to coach, you gonna have to get a mussle to keep me quiet from ripping this 95 Honda Civic driving , Diet Coke drinking, beetle juice looking rat of a coach jeff vangundy ! His ego and arrogance is what has made me his #1 hater, along with ewing's ego those two stopped nellie from being the knicks head coach for many yrs . The way Nelson understands talent and with Dolan Kicking out$$$$ the way he has (in the past ) who knows how many championship runs we would have had now. NELSON KNEW THE FUTURE OF THE GAME IN THE NBA AND VANGUMBY WAS COACHING IN THE PAST. Think about this Nellie(COACH) and Grunfeld (GM)running the knicks This is the real reason why I dislike Vandummy, contruary to "CLONES BELIEFS UP IN HERE WHO THINK THEY KNOW MY MOTIVES.

Haha playa that was funny, your hatred for Gundy is funny, but for your sake if he gets the cleveland Job, you better hope they don't win......LOL...

I do agree that Nellie got shafted when he was coaching here but that was more of Ewing, Nellie did seem to have a handle on where the NBA was going but he handled it wrong with Ewing, he did the same thing with Webber also.... Nellie is no saint or Genius man....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
prodson
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Colombia
5/20/2003  10:14 AM
still obsessed with jeff van gundy

have you even asked the man out yet?
all those years as a fan and now i'm the anti-knick. life is crazy aint it.
KARNIVORE
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Nigeria
5/20/2003  10:28 AM
NELLIE sucks !!!! He is just lucky to have the greatest sports owner of all time !!!!
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, BUT THEY ARE NOT TREATED EQUAL !!!
Knix124
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5/20/2003  3:05 PM
To think JVG is over-rated becuase he wants to be part of a winning orgazation is dumb, and ridiculous. it was a matter of time before they FIRED jeff anyway. He obviously didn't agree with Sh**t management was doing.

Why is it, that CHANEY can conduct to loosing seasons and be rewarded 2 times in the middle of a loosing steak/season and be giving a raise and a extension. While Gundy (who was instrumental in both trips to the finals), couldn't get a extensions entering his last year.

Who wants to coach with that kind of pressure, especially when you don't have the Talant to work with in the first place, that exactly why there giving chanet those million dollor extensions ( so he can focus more on the team, and not his future).


I guess some of you would have stayed, laughed it up and act like everythings all gravey. I was just as Piss as anybody when he bounce, but after really seeing how this management gets down, it's just like GOOD OL Corporate America.
Pike
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5/20/2003  3:14 PM
I dunno about Van Gundy going to Cleveland. The Cavs fired "the Czar" Mike Fratello, who had that team playing great defense and was getting the most out of limited talent. The reason the Cavs fired Fratello was people were falling asleep at games.. it was a boring brand of ball to say the least.

Now, they want Van Gundy and his isolation half court offense? Jeff's a great defensive coach but, doesn't know the first thing about offense and uptempo is not in his vocabulary.

I dunno, I still think JVG would make a fantasic defensive coordinator. lol
playa2
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5/20/2003  4:10 PM
I don't believe it Pike and myself agree on Vandummy's lack of being a all-around coach.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Pike
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5/20/2003  4:12 PM
Playa, I never thought Van Gundy was a good offensive coach and was all over him when he was with us. However, when he left, we got noticeably worse... which proved us wrong about the guy. I admitted as much, why can't you

[Edited by - Pike on 05/20/2003 16:14:04]
playa2
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5/20/2003  4:29 PM
Pike , I discussed this issue long ago and ya laughed it off. I will compare the knicks situation with Sloan in Utah... NY had same system for many yrs under Riley and Gundy nothing changed much. How many new guys came right in and fit in with the Jazz just like they did for gundy when riley left and they never missed a beat. WHY? Same system! Now it only makes sense that when gundy left they were ingrained with a philosophy that was hard to get out their thinking especially when it was around so long(system)10 yrs plus that they could run it in their sleep. Now when someone replaces sloan system, I guarantee they will struggle if the same players are there. We were worse playing his style(gundy) I think once the players got (gundy's )philosophy out of their system, they actually played better for Don Chaney with less talent on roster than when gundy was there. My point they played worst when gundy left only because of a flawed system that wasn't applicable for this new roster of NYknicks.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Pike
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5/20/2003  4:31 PM
Tell me why the Knicks forgot how to play defense the minute Van Gundy left the building?
KARNIVORE
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Nigeria
5/20/2003  4:57 PM
ROFL.........
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, BUT THEY ARE NOT TREATED EQUAL !!!
playa2
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5/20/2003  10:54 PM
THEY HAD No center duh + they had to learn how to open up and score more. Don't tell me you didn't know that. Gundy's system worked with certain personnel which under chaney we no longer had.He made them play defense only and players stood around and rested just to ply defense. Under Chaney the knicks came down ran and shot the rock moved the ball around and led the league in 3pointers.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Swishfm3
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5/21/2003  9:26 AM
this is prolly the first REAL debate I've ever seen Playa in...I don't totally agree with you, but u made a good point.
tkf
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5/21/2003  9:34 AM
Good point playa....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pike
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5/21/2003  10:39 AM
In my opinion, the Knicks were clearly more disciplined under Van Gundy... That being said, I feel bad for Chaney... at least he's paid well and assured a yearly extended contract after we lose.
NYKBocker
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5/21/2003  10:47 AM
I am not a beleiver in the argument that the system is what makes a team go. In my humble opinion, we had a great team leader in LJ that could not be matched. When he retired, my beloved Knicks went on a downward spiral.

Look at the triangle offense. It worked in Chicago when Jordan and the Jordanaires were there. Now the Baby Bulls stink. It works in LA because of the wannabe boxer Kobe and Shaq.

So I guess what I am trying to say is unless you have the personnel you are not going anywhere.
KARNIVORE
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Nigeria
5/21/2003  10:47 AM
Not have a center is no excuse !!!! You guys always complained CAMBY was not a center & he always missed 70% of the season !!! Look at DETROIT, BEN WALLACE is 6'7 !!!
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, BUT THEY ARE NOT TREATED EQUAL !!!
Pike
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5/21/2003  10:51 AM
NYKBocker, I've alsways said, it doesn't really matter who's coaching with this assembled cast of rift-raft.
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