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misterearl
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7/31/2007  11:53 AM
Interesting how a passionate and heartfelt plea for some optimistic fun and good old-fashioned loyalty quickly dissolves into the kneejerk reaction of "woe is us"

or an irrelvant comparison of individual players to the rest of the league

big deal

enyspree ain't talking about stats OR the freakin' past

the message that enyspree is advancing is that there is nothing wrong with celebrating being a Knicks fan, win or lose

life is too short to bitch and moan every single day as some insist on their "one-trick pony" acts to demean the Knicks just because of their personal anti-Knicks agenda

the same Nalod's who place ultimate value on winning are the cousins of the same people who insist you must "blow it up" to succeed

but they would also be the first to loudly "boo" the baby steps of a young team finding its collective rhythm

is it the fans right to "boo"?

of course it is

the Championship Knicks starters were frequently "booed" into timeoouts where they played sluggish basketball

the difference was that they were cheered coming out of those timeouts as fans understood they way you support a team is with positive reinforcement, not with negative

So enyspree, I'm witchoo

"I'm Spartacus dammit!"
once a knick always a knick
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nixluva
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7/31/2007  11:57 AM
Posted by MS:

Actually block shots do matter especially when your talking about someone that protects the rim and alters shots, zach is a disgrace in that area. Bosh is better in every facet of the game than Zach, there isn't a gm in the league that would choose zach over the list i have mentioned. Odom is the only question mark but when he was with wade that one year he helped carry miami to the second round of the playoffs and he is a better player period. You make him the focal point of your offense he is unstoppable at the pf slot......

Right now
Curry is a top 5 center
Zach is not a top 10 pf
Q is not a top 20 15sf
Crawford is not a top 30 sg (Parker, Carter, Iggy, Vince are better in our division)
Mabury is not a top 10 pg

I am not being biased or hating here these are simple facts

No one said that blocked shots don't matter. I believe that they are overrated by people. I'd love for us to have more shotblocking, but it's not everything. In terms of overall production I believe Zach is a top 10 PF. The only reason Steph isn't getting the kind of stats that he usually does is by design. The guy is still capable of playing at the level of a top PG's in this league. He showed that this year when he had to step up he was still capable. He also did that while not being 100%.

Honestly I think that there are too many of us that are ready to just write off our own players simply because they don't like them.

Looking at that PER list that Hollinger has Lee is at #12, so we've got 2 PF's in the top 20 in this league. In terms of their production.

TrueBlue, in regards to Curry, no one holds him out to be a well rounded player. With him you have to look at his impact from an intangible aspect. His one area of strength has a huge impact on the teams we play. He forces teams to defend us a certain way and as we continue to refine the roster and our style of play to work with that, we'll start to see better results. When we can get the passing and shooting from the perimeter improved, his impact will be felt even more. So you can go ahead and make fun of his lack of overall production, but just remember that he can give the rest of the team a chance to have better production simply by being such a force inside. Now the real test will be getting him to do more of the little things so that he's more than what he is now. We'll see if he can do that. If he does then there's no stopping this team.
TrueBlue
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7/31/2007  11:58 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Solace:

Although I appreciate the PER rating, Nix, you can't honest believe that Zach is better than Bosh and Howard. Zach hovering around #10 or #11 is not bad and nothing to be ashamed about.

I'm just telling you that if you're at the end of a tight game and you need that game winning shot, Zach is more equipped to provide that right now than Howard. If you're losing in a game and you need someone to step up and go off for a period of time to help carry the team Zach is capable of doing that. Howard is not. Howard gets a LOT of his points off of missed shots and broken plays where he just raises up and dunks it. But against a set D he's not scoring that easily. He's not a refined offensive player at all. Yeah he gets some blocked shots, but those don't all lead to instant points and they don't all lead to his team getting the ball or stopping the opponent from still scoring on that possession. Of course he's a great young player and who wouldn't want him, but right now Zach to me can help this team to do things that Howard can't do.


What if you're in more fall behind games from the first and 2nd qrt vs those handful of tight games because our D Turnstyles the other team's offense for the majority of the 48min?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
misterearl
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7/31/2007  11:59 AM
The Future Is so Bright I Gotta Wear Shades

>>I'm just sick of the nonsense. I want a positivity filled space where the knicks are the team we root for regardless of how terrible they are.

A Pure Love thread?

It will never happen
once a knick always a knick
MS
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7/31/2007  12:04 PM
Listen I know what we have, and I like to be positive when positivity is warranted....

I am very excited about: Balkman, Collins, Lee, A healthy Q

I believe in Marbury and think that he is just to dumb to realize how to be a great player, Crawford is the most frustrating player in the league much like Eddy because they have all world skills but are working without a brain on the court. If they would just think the game through there is no reason they would ever be stopped.....

What I do know is this, collins should get 15 minutes a night, Balkman 25, Lee 30 if that happens i think we have the makings of a very good team.

Being optimistic is very tough to do, when Q is proud of eddy working out in june, like it should be celebrated. When your season hinges on players work ethic like Crawford, Marbury, and Curry you have every reason to hate.....

Because our guards never improve on a yearly basis, eddy hasn't really improved much either he is the same guy who finished his career as a bull then as he is now
TrueBlue
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7/31/2007  12:05 PM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Because EY Curry's PER amongst Centers and compared to league average is not good at all.

Wherein TrueBlue demonstrates that he doesn't know what he's talking about.


EY's PER is 17 the league average is 15 and when compared to Yao, Howard, Okafor here's where EY plummets to


EY
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3514&action=upsell&appRedirect=
http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayers%2fhollinger%3fstatsId%3d3514 17.07

Yao
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3599&action=upsell&appRedirect=
http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayers%2fhollinger%3fstatsId%3d3599 26.54

Howard
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3818&action=upsell&appRedirect=
http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayers%2fhollinger%3fstatsId%3d3818 21.19

Okafor
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?statsId=3819&action=upsell&appRedirect=
http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayers%2fhollinger%3fstatsId%3d3819 20.15


You're A Tenant


I'm A Lanlord


EXPOSED!

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 07-31-2007 11:06 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
misterearl
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7/31/2007  12:07 PM
MS - I believe in you as well. I just think you are too dumb to realize how to be a great writer.

Wilson Chandler shocks the world and makes the NBA All-Star Team in 2009

This is a No hate zone
once a knick always a knick
tomverve
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7/31/2007  12:08 PM
Right, so Curry's PER is better than the league average. The average PER among centers is even lower than 15, so compared to the average center Curry's PER looks even better. Idiot.
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islesfan
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7/31/2007  12:09 PM
Posted by misterearl:

MS - I believe in you as well. I just think you are too dumb to realize how to be a great writer.

Wilson Chandler shocks the world and makes the NBA All-Star Team in 2009

This is a No hate zone

MS, he says you're too dumb and then in the next sentence he says that Wilson Chandler will make the 2009 NBA All Star team.

Apparently when it comes to misterearl...

This is a NO CLUE zone
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nixluva
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7/31/2007  12:10 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

What if you're in more fall behind games from the first and 2nd qrt vs those handful of tight games because our D Turnstyles the other team's offense for the majority of the 48min?

You're thinking negatively already. This team shouldn't be in a lot of games where we're behind. Stop living in the past. We stared last year with a lineup of Steph, Francis, Q, Frye & Eddy. This year we'll have Steph, Jamal, Q, Zach & Eddy or maybe Steph, Q, Jared, Zach & Eddy. Whatever it ends up being, that team is better than what we started games with last year.

No matter how you slice it, this team is BETTER, not the same or worse. You can't compare our readiness this year, based on having played in this system for a season, to what it was to start last year. We had no confidence and didn't really have the system down or any chemistry on O or D. This year we have even more talent and I don't see any reason to be negative towards the team we'll put on the floor. All of our returning young guys will be a year wiser and hopefully a bit improved. We'll start the year with them being mentally ready to just come in and help as opposed to them being timid, learning and getting a feel for things. At every turn you can see reasons for this team to be much better.
Solace
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7/31/2007  12:11 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Right, so Curry's PER is better than the league average. The average PER among centers is even lower than 15, so compared to the average center Curry's PER looks even better. Idiot.

Nobody said Curry was below average. There's some REALLY sucky starting centers in the league right now. But Curry isn't close to the class of the elite centers, primarily because of his defense. Is that not a fair point?
The Knicks 2026 NBA Champions!
TrueBlue
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7/31/2007  12:13 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Right, so Curry's PER is better than the league average. The average PER among centers is even lower than 15, so compared to the average center Curry's PER looks even better. Idiot.


LOL that's if you have absolutely LOW STANDARDS as a fan. 15 to 17 is barely above league average which is about right because Curry is barely a good player. Remember this guy is an All-Star borderline Superstar yet he's kissing the league average PER on the lips. Meanwhile the other centers I showed, in which 2 were All-Stars are considerably above league average PER. I said it's not good which I'm correct in saying, nothing I said was false by any stretch.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Panos
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7/31/2007  12:16 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by TrueBlue:

What if you're in more fall behind games from the first and 2nd qrt vs those handful of tight games because our D Turnstyles the other team's offense for the majority of the 48min?

You're thinking negatively already. This team shouldn't be in a lot of games where we're behind. Stop living in the past. We stared last year with a lineup of Steph, Francis, Q, Frye & Eddy. This year we'll have Steph, Jamal, Q, Zach & Eddy or maybe Steph, Q, Jared, Zach & Eddy. Whatever it ends up being, that team is better than what we started games with last year.
[clip...]

If JJ2 is in the starting line up, I'm gonna puke. For the zillionth time, he brings nothing to the table. Please stop saying that.

Start any of Q, Balk or Lee at the 3. All of them have their minuses, but at least none of them are an entire waste of space.

Next!
TrueBlue
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7/31/2007  12:18 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by tomverve:

Right, so Curry's PER is better than the league average. The average PER among centers is even lower than 15, so compared to the average center Curry's PER looks even better. Idiot.

Nobody said Curry was below average. There's some REALLY sucky starting centers in the league right now. But Curry isn't close to the class of the elite centers, primarily because of his defense. Is that not a fair point?


No kidding the Center position in basketball is probably the weakest position of any sport known to man right now. On another note Back Up center Alonzo Mourning's PER is 16.79 compared to EY's "Bruised Never Broken" Cornerstone, Starter, Curry 17.07. Big Z's of the Cavs is 17.98.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 07-31-2007 11:19 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Marv
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7/31/2007  12:18 PM
you know what, goddamnit? enyspree and misterearl are right!

we need a little more motivation to get our heads straight behind this team.

wait! i know just the ticket . . . . .
tomverve
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7/31/2007  12:18 PM
Posted by Solace:

[quote]Posted by tomverve:

Nobody said Curry was below average. There's some REALLY sucky starting centers in the league right now. But Curry isn't close to the class of the elite centers, primarily because of his defense. Is that not a fair point?

If you don't know the difference between saying Curry's PER isn't on the level of the elite centers and saying that it isn't good compared to the league average or amongst centers (not "elite centers" but "centers"), I don't know what to tell you.
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MaTT4281
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7/31/2007  12:18 PM


Preach on Eny. Let bias take it's course and just enjoy a team you love. We've been facing a harsh reality 82 games a season, why not have a feel good thread?

Remember the past.




And look towards the future.




I can't wait for November. I don't care if the Celtics got KG, Duncan, AND Kobe. Knock their motha ****ing lights out!
Remind the god damn Nets that New York WILL ALWAYS belong to the Knicks!
misterearl
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7/31/2007  12:28 PM
Matt4281 - outstanding research and video work

There are no "haters" or "lovers"

There are those who only know bitching and moaning as their best friend

They are start out missing their pacifiers and need frequent diaper changes. They grow up to be cross-dressing in-the-closet fans who would more eagerly root for the Knicks to lose. That sorry behavior I do not support under any circumstance.

then

On the other hand, then there are those who can weather the temporary storms and support the Knicks, for better or worse, regardless of personal bias

like enyspree

They are simply Knicks fans

I'm down widit
once a knick always a knick
Panos
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7/31/2007  12:35 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Matt4281 - outstanding research and video work

There are no "haters" or "lovers"

There are those who only know bitching and moaning as their best friend

They are start out missing their pacifiers and need frequent diaper changes. They grow up to be cross-dressing in-the-closet fans who would more eagerly root for the Knicks to lose. That sorry behavior I do not support under any circumstance.

then

On the other hand, then there are those who can weather the temporary storms and support the Knicks, for better or worse, regardless of personal bias

like enyspree

They are simply Knicks fans

I'm down widit

ha ha ha.
Support the Knicks for better for worse, regardless of personal bias?
Does that even make sense? Could you have written a more contradictory statement?
Being a die hard fan IS a personal bias.

We are all fans here. Just that some like the direction the team is going and others not.
Marv
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7/31/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by misterearl:

They are start out missing their pacifiers and need frequent diaper changes. They grow up to be cross-dressing in-the-closet fans who would more eagerly root for the Knicks to lose.

wow.

FINALLY a cogent explanation for the aberrant behavior of the haters.

this explains why djsu always gets so happy when the security guys at the garden hand search him.
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