Posted by Killa4luv:

Imagine that you could line white people up in front of a door and get them to really believe that if they walked into a "race-changing room" they would emerge on the other side with black skin and an accent associated with blacks from the South. Then ask whites to set their price -- the amount of money it would take them to agree to enter that room. Imagine there was an attendant there with stacks of cash, ready to hand money to the white folks. Just for fun, let's say the cash award would be tax free. In that setting, when white people really had to face the possibility of being black -- knowing all they know about the reality of life in white-supremacist America -- what would the price be?

Depends, how big would my penis be?

Whenever I think about African Americans, I think about blacks that come from Africa to this country- and they often have very different experiences, perceptions and experiences.

And part of the difference is culture- that historical heritage we get without knowing we got it.

When I think of reparations, I always thought that's what affirmative action was for- to help level the playing field and try to make up for past wrongs. I'd agree that we have a long way to go.

And if I could go into a race machine and come out african american, I would, if I could come out as Michael Jordan.

Man, I love being called disadvantaged.

Posted by Nalod:

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/0001/sa000111.htm

or

hahaha. one of my friends almost got in one of his commercials. that would have kicked ass.

Posted by Nalod:

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/0001/sa000111.htm

or

I guess you forgot , one minority now can start up a business get govt free money bring over his family memebers who don't even know the language and teach them the business and his family members can go and start another buisness themselves with free govt money.

How many corner stores in the hood are owned by african americans ? Not Much !

Nalod you really need a check up from the neck up sometimes.

Why you trying to make this personal son ? I am doing quite well. I own 2 homes one is3800sq ft with basketball court and 27ft pool and A rental condo.

What you don't understand is some people are self motivated and some just need a good start up before they bring out the qualities you were referring to.

Everybody don't operate like you, come here and ask all the arabs who own corner stores ETC... all over WNY. I bet you never asked them how hard it was for them to start up and expand. I have and they sheepishly laugh . You're stuck in a cave in CONN.




[Edited by - playa2 on 20-07-2007 21:36]

I usually don't like to talk about Race, since we all basically come from the same source, however, in this country the issue has never really been settled. If you know your history then you know that no Civil Rights decision was ever really upheld except at the point of a gov't gun. This has had the result that for vast multitudes of Minorities in this country the damage done lasted for so long that the culture it's created for groups like African Americans has a negative one. Teenage pregnancy, emasculation of black men and a false culture of proving ones worth thru the aquisition of material things. There's no deep rooted culture of education or achievement, because so many young mothers are raising families barely having been educated themselves and then their children repeat the cycle.

In time this will change, but it will take a long time, just as it took a long time to create this awful legacy. My parents and grandmother are still alive and thus we still have a connection to the days when things were awful for minorities and it hasn't been that long that things started to change. So let's see about 400 years of oppression and disconnection from any sense of ones original culture or history compared to about 40 years of so called equal rights. I was born in the 60's just when things finally changed and it took many more years for that to filter thru to the entire country. It's not over and just because a few of us have made it doesn't change the fact that a HUGE amount of us are still stuck in the endless cycle of underpriviledged.

I worked my way up from nothing and became an executive despite not having a college education. My daughter just graduated with honors and is going to college on a full scholarship. She wants to be a math teacher. I consider myself fortunate that my mother had the kind of drive that she did and instilled that in me. I was able to succeed, but I realize how hard that can be for all those other kids with less driven parents, awful living conditions and bad schools. I try to reachout and talk to young people and mentor them. This is the kind of thing that it's gonna take to try and turn things around, but on a local level and on a larger level.

[Edited by - nixluva on 07-20-2007 11:56 PM]

Posted by nixluva:

I consider myself fortunate that my mother had the kind of drive that she did and instilled that in me. I was able to succeed, but I realize how hard that can be for all those other kids with less driven parents, awful living conditions and bad schools. I try to reachout and talk to young people and mentor them. This is the kind of thing that it's gonna take to try and turn things around, but on a local level and on a larger level.

This is what white people and other immigrants/minorities fail to grasp. You came here with your culture intact, with your minds intact. poverty is rough we all know that. But being a member of a family that has been trapped in poverty that goes back to the generation that was 'freed' from slavery, that is something else. Think about what that means. Now we are not just talking about not having money. We are talking about generations of people who are illeterate and semi-literate.

I could lose everything right now, but me and my family would eventually emerge from it, because we have our minds intact, we are educated, we KNOW what to do and how to do it, we have knowledge and that knowledge gives us options. There are millions of black people who have ONLY been poor and uneducated for generations, and who have essentially developed a culture around poverty and ignorance. In the last 50 years you can add drug abuse to that culture as well. Try growing up in a culture where doing good in school is NOT a good thing, and wwhere the schools suck anyway, are overcrowded, and where kids have so many issues, the teacher is overwhelmed anyway. Then try to figure your way out of the ghetto; or out of anything. The conditiion of many many poor black people in this country has been engineered over time, by social and institutional forces. By the gov't and the millions upon millions of white people who supported it or sat by in silence.

If you know anything about black history in this country you know black people fought for rights, for equality, for education, for very basic things. The government and most Americans fought against that every step of the way. After segregation was legally ended, black people began to flood the colleges and universities, a new black consciousness began to emerge and things started to get serious as black people were not willing to accept the slow pace at which society wanted to treat them with dignity and respect. So what did the government do? Sabotage, imprison, and allow drugs to flourish. Kill the leaders, imprison the followers, and addict the rest. This is documented fact, its not hard to find. Martin luther King was considered a radical subversive at the time, although now he is portrayed differently and the gov't wants to pretend as if they were with him all along, now that theyve killed him. Malcolm X is on a stamp now, as if the US ever respected him when he was alive. Study history.

I know who I am, and I know the history of this country and my people very well. You all dont understand white supremacy (racism). Millions of black people have internalized white supremacy, preferring lighter skin, perming their hair, getting blue contacts, hair weaves, skin bleaching creams, hating themselves and other black people, all in an attempt to be white, and worship whiteness. Yet somehow, I can never find a white person anywhere to even consider that maybe, just maybe, they have been affected by white supremacy in any way. Its pretty remarkable when you think about it.

My point is not to blame anyone (although thats always how its interpreted), my point is lets acknowledge this, and look deeply into this and understand exactly what the monster is that we are dealing with. Lets just take an honest look at this. Most of you have never studied this in any serious way, and feel uncomfortable thinking about it, how could you possibly know much about it?

Yet, MOST of the responses here are either gross mischaracterizations of the article, or a response that essentially says "this is meaningless, I know all of this already, if you work hard you can make it, there is no point to this." All while admitting you dont get the article. SO you dont get it, but you get enough to know it ought to be dismissed.

Originally posted by Killa4luv:

On #1: To choose not to know about the reality of a situation in which one is privileged in an unjust system is itself a moral failure. When a system is structured to benefit people who look like me, and I choose not to listen to the evidence of how others suffer in that system, I have effectively decided not to act by deciding not to know.

FYI, im not angry and this isn't even about me. I never attended a public school in my life. I went to elite private schools and to a private university. Grew up with both parents, middle class, and never had a serious financial concern. But I did still grow up in the ghetto (Harlem), and I understand what it is that poor black people go through, and I udnerstand that poor black people in this country face more challenges than other minorities who come here looking for a batter life. I dont want it to be that way, thats just the reality of the situation. I am also intimately familiar with racism in this country and most of you aren't. I bring these topics up because I think they can be helpful in us beginning to understand a part of society that most here have very little contact with or understanding of. And I think its important.


[Edited by - Killa4luv on 07-21-2007 3:22 PM]

Posted by Solace:

Although I really don't want to get into this too much, as I said earlier, Killa, you may be right, but... if you go out and make white people your enemy, things aren't going to improve as much as you'd like. I don't think all change happens immediately, but I do think you would admit that it's clearly much better than it was 40 or 50 years ago. History often shows that change is gradual. So, while it's not perfect, it is progress. If you want that to continue, posts that's inner premise is, "why white people basically suck" or "the main thing that's wrong with white people" need to be toned down. Just think how you would've reacted if the title of this thread had the word "problem" and the words "black people" in it. Most likely, you would've either gotten angry or ignored it. So, keep that in mind; the phrasing and presentation of sensitive points is VERY important. You also should remember that there are a lot of people who need help, and that is not something solely owned by any one particular race.

So, let's take it from a different angle. There's a lot of things that need major improvement in the world. Where should one start? Who should set the initial example, so the rest of the world follows? Because isn't that what you ultimately want? People to change for the better? Change to continually progress for the better? So, sitting on a message board isn't doing much. What would you like done?

Solace you havent addressed one single point I made in my post, but you have critcized the way I presented my points and the way the article presented its points. I'm gonna look it over again.

You havent commented at all on the substance of the article or my post. Saying me or the article may be right, is the same as saying we may be wrong. What do you think about it? You aren't really saying anything except that white people may be offended by the way this is presented. I dont think you can truthfully present this information in a way that white people aren't going to find offensive. Or maybe you can point to perticular things that you think are offensive?

If someone says something harsh to me, I'll be offended, but I will also see if its true. Sometimes truthfull things hurt. My time in different political groups taught me "Criticism and Self-Criticism", so I am fairly comfortable finding fault in myself. Its part of how I strive to become a better person. Most people dont like to find fault in themselves, its something we all have to learn to overcome.

Making white people my enemy? If dealing with the history of Black people in this country in an accurate way makes white people my enemy, then I dont know what to say. I'm not gonna lie to make white people want to be my friend. I dont mean any ill will, things are what they are, I dont think you should adjust them to appease people. How about lets all get comfortable with the harsh realities of the history in this country? How else can we learn to move past them? Thats one of my big gripes, white people in this country haven't ever dealt with these harsh realities in a serious way, but are always rushing to get past them. It just doesn't work like that.

Now, onto things like this:

You also should remember that there are a lot of people who need help, and that is not something solely owned by any one particular race.

What was the purpose of you saying this? Do you think this is something I dont know, or needed to be reminded of? Do you think this remark sheds any light? Do you think it comes off as condescending or patronizing? I do, but I'm not offended, I'm assuming you meant no ill will by it, as you should when I write. But just for clarity, I'm talking about black people and white people because that is exactyly what this discussion is about. It seems that you want to shift the discussion to something else, anything else, rather than deal with the issues at hand. And that seems to be the predominant trend in this thread. There is more than a fair share of irony in that position.

White people dont like talking about race because they feel as if they are having a guilt trip laid on them. They dont talk about it, and then dont end up knowing anything about it, and then claim to know about it, and claim its over or almost over or we're making progress. I think all of that is weak. We are just trying to talk here over the internets and people are running away from it. If we cant have an open and honest discussion about it, we aren't really making any progress at all.



[Edited by - Killa4luv on 07-21-2007 3:24 PM]