Posted by arkrud:

Posted by BigC:

I think there are enough shots to go around. If the Mavs and Suns can find shots for their players so can the Knicks.

Zach will get the majority of the shots. Curry only takes 12 shots a game that is not alot. The person who shots will be reduced will be Jamal. I expect his role this year to be the facilitator at setting up the offense. Marbury will most likely be the third scorer. If Jeffries starts we will not have to worry about him shooting.

None of these players really have been known to demand the ball except Marbury . We are not exactly talking about a team filled with ball hogs and big egos. The only person that in the past have been know for having a big ego is Marbury.

[Edited by - BigC on 07-19-2007 11:28 AM]

Eddy needs shots to not dissapear at all and Zach is demanding shots much more that Steph
Craf with his pure defense and decision making will be useless without taking more that 10.
He will have no impact on the game at all and can as well sit on the bench.
To balance this team you need players like Lee, balk, and Mardy all the time on the flour.
Othervise it's a trouble.






[Edited by - arkrud on 07-19-2007 11:37 AM]

Jamal will never be useless once he is on court because he is the main passer. Also have you ever seen Jamal's man leave him open? The mere fact that he is on the court it will lead to our offense being spreaded out. You need a passer on the court more than ever with Zach and Curry on our team. You have a team that have players that can't even feed the post yet you think the guy that is best at setting up the offense doesn't need to be on the court? Jamal excels at halfcourt speed and uptempo speed of the game.
Two years in a row we have tried Jamal off the bench and has it has not work. You are joking if you think you have a better option with this team than not starting Jamal.
Marbury did not start playing good until Jamal became a starter. It is clear that the combo of Jamal and Marbury fit each other. As oppose to any other combinations in the backcourt.

Masterplan - a "different direction" such as....?

you guys whine and moan before the team even hits the practice court

dang

are we not men?

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by BigC:

I think there are enough shots to go around. If the Mavs and Suns can find shots for their players so can the Knicks.

mavs and suns play uptempo. scouts are already calling us one of the slowest teams in the league with our starting frontcourt.

Zach will get the majority of the shots. Curry only takes 12 shots a game that is not alot. The person who shots will be reduced will be Jamal. I expect his role this year to be the facilitator at setting up the offense. Marbury will most likely be the third scorer. If Jeffries starts we will not have to worry about him shooting.

i don't think it's really the precise number of shots that is important. it's about how we run the offense. steph wants his assists. he won't get them by throwing entry passes to our bigs, who then make their post moves. eddy's scoring numbers will go down when at least 1/3 of his touches go to zach, and that's his sole impact on the game for us. everyone says zach will top his 23-10 now that he's in the east. he cannot while steph and eddy get theirs. and that's before jamal, Q and everyone else gets involved.

None of these players really have been known to demand the ball except Marbury . We are not exactly talking about a team filled with ball hogs and big egos. The only person that in the past have been know for having a big ego is Marbury.

are you still talking about the knicks?

Name that player besides Marbury that has a big ego?

You said Marbury wants his assists but he can only get that from passing. Which like I said he will get less shots. Our main scorer will be Zach. Whether he gets 19 points or 20. He is going to get his and Curry will be next in line.

... and why would any primitive basketball mind "cement" two players on the low block?

dang, even my 12-year old can figure that out.

Nah, Isiah and his entire coaching staff is a bunch of idiots

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-19-2007 12:02 PM]

BigC - thank you

Andrew - my intent was not to disparage anyone's national origin... or cast a harsh light on the ability to start a topic.

If arkrud is from another country, and still learning basic english, then he has my most sincere apology

If not, well...

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-19-2007 12:22 PM]

Posted by BigC:

Name that player besides Marbury that has a big ego?

i was more referring to the ball hog bit. which would include nate, jamal, eddy and zach.

You said Marbury wants his assists but he can only get that from passing. Which like I said he will get less shots. Our main scorer will be Zach. Whether he gets 19 points or 20. He is going to get his and Curry will be next in line.

but like i said it's not about the number of shots. steph gets his assists by starting possessions with the ball, driving and dishing. eddy gets his points by getting position, getting the ball, backing down and powering to the hoop. haven't seen a whole lot of zach, but from what i've seen, it appears he does the same as eddy, only he can start farther out before creating space to get off his shot.

those three approaches could very well prove to be mutually exclusive. steph can dish to those two big guys, but they post up better than they slash. that's why i'm concerned.

when we bring the ball up court, who gets the ball? steph? eddy? zach? it can only be one of the three.

Posted by misterearl:

Masterplan - a "different direction" such as....?

you guys whine and moan before the team even hits the practice court

dang

are we not men?

my gut feeling about this trade is eerily similar to what i felt about the steve francis trade.

my "different direction" in this case is the same as it was then - i wouldn't have made the trade.

i didn't think we could get randolph that cheap. another different direction could have been to go after camby or dalembert or even elton brand if i wanted to aim real high - someone who plays D. although i as a fan would be patient and happy enough to let our youth develop and see what we've got without starphuching.

i'm actually not very happy with being in the position to have to dwell on these guys flaws- i love jamal (and nate), and warmed up to eddy significantly. i'll see about zach. maybe i asked for it by giving in and writing that one venting post. but i think you guys are far enough off on some of this stuff that i've got to respond.

basically, my point was that these guys have reputations as ball hogs (or "selfish," "black hole," shoot-first PG etc). are you unaware of this, or are you saying the reputations are unfair? that's two different arguments, if you get me.

Posted by BigC:

Since when is Curry a ball hog? Because he only takes 12 shots a game. And thats for a guy that shoots almost 60% and has lead the league in fg when Shaq was healthy. A ball hog is a person that would shoot about twice as many shots as Curry. The only reason why Curry was even the go to guy was because Isiah made him the go to guy. If Isiah did not put him in that position Curry would careless about having the ball in his hands.

you really don't have any idea why curry could be considered a ball hog? what about "black hole?" does that ring any bells as a label for eddy? curry is a terrible passing big man. for all the double teams he draws, he does very little passing. what does shooting % have to do with being a ball hog? me, i'd start with assists...

Now to Zach. Zach is not a ball hog either. Have you watched him play? You tell me who else on that Blazers team was he suppose to pass the ball to when Nate McMcillian wanted him to be the focal point of the offense. If you think a big man that averages is 2 assists is a ball hog then I don't know what to say. Do you think J. Oneal is a ball hog? Because he does the same thing on offense.

i'm no expert on zach, haven't seen much of him. most of what i've actually seen of him is highlight reels, for what they're worth. but every scouting report i've read on him includes "selfish" to some degree. from the clips of him i've seen i'm not surprised. i can't say for sure if he's a ball hog, but the fact that there are those in the league that consider him such shouldn't come out of nowhere for you.

plus, i can't let you go get away with the old "he's got no one to pass to" excuse. are you saying he isn't a ball hog, or that it's OK that he is?

Now to Jamal. How many times have we seen his number called by the coach? If you want to blame Jamal then point at your coach for not calling other plays for the other players. Really on this team last year the only scorer we had were Marbury, Jamal, Nate, and Curry. Nate main job was to score off the bench not setup plays. Because he was our only scoring bench player when Jamal was put in the starting lineup.

jamal is my favorite knick. nate's up there. but the knock on them their whole careers is that they're way too shoot-first trigger-happy. the "it's the coach's fault" excuse is just that - an excuse.

As far as who get's the ball it will be Zach or it depends on how the defense is reading our offensive schemes.

this is really what makes me unhappy. last year we became eddy's team. it took time for the team to learn/buy in, an excuse cited to no end. now we're zach's team? what will the adjustment period be? what about eddy - can he be effective if we're not pounding the ball to him.

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by BigC:

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by BigC:

Name that player besides Marbury that has a big ego?

i was more referring to the ball hog bit. which would include nate, jamal, eddy and zach.

Since when is Curry a ball hog? Because he only takes 12 shots a game. And thats for a guy that shoots almost 60% and has lead the league in fg when Shaq was healthy. A ball hog is a person that would shoot about twice as many shots as Curry. The only reason why Curry was even the go to guy was because Isiah made him the go to guy. If Isiah did not put him in that position Curry would careless about having the ball in his hands.

Now to Zach. Zach is not a ball hog either. Have you watched him play? You tell me who else on that Blazers team was he suppose to pass the ball to when Nate McMcillian wanted him to be the focal point of the offense. If you think a big man that averages is 2 assists is a ball hog then I don't know what to say. Do you think J. Oneal is a ball hog? Because he does the same thing on offense.

Now to Jamal. How many times have we seen his number called by the coach? If you want to blame Jamal then point at your coach for not calling other plays for the other players. Really on this team last year the only scorer we had were Marbury, Jamal, Nate, and Curry. Nate main job was to score off the bench not setup plays. Because he was our only scoring bench player when Jamal was put in the starting lineup.

As far as who get's the ball it will be Zach or it depends on how the defense is reading our offensive schemes.





[Edited by - BigC on 07-19-2007 1:25 PM]

Can you name one NBA team which is playing 2 post-up players with zero defense at the same time in starting line-up?
What is the point of this kind of combination?
I can see Eddy and Zack playing to back-up each other. And this is the best use of them.
But taking into account what we gave up for them this will be a tuff call










[Edited by - arkrud on 07-19-2007 2:15 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 07-19-2007 2:16 PM]

Not so fast, your topic for this tread is "Not too much shots left." Now all of a sudden when you get facts on why there are enough shots to go around you want to change the topic? Do you want to talk about the offense or is the New Topic "I hate the trade and Zach and Curry defense sucks."

here's a quote from an SI article mentioning the ZR trade that may clear up my point a little:

Neither player is an accomplished passer: While New York added scoring and rebounding by dealing for Randolph, their fellow Knicks will realize once they throw the ball into him or Curry it probably isn't going to come back out again.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/ian_thomsen/07/19/free.agents/2.html

that's really all i'm arguing. our team is not good with ball movement, so your original comment a ways back now in the thread surprised me. ball movement can be key, but it's not the only way to score. i think eddy was effective for us last year. curry's FG% is good, but also balanced out by his turnovers. and as dominant as he can be, occasions regularly arise in games where he simply needs to give up the ball, and he needs to work on recognizing and executing.

i think we can win with eddy, limitations and all - one of those big points we agree on. but i don't think Randolph was the right guy to bring in to bring the best out of E-City. what happens this season when eddy isn't option 1, 1A and 2 (or however IT described it last year)?

where'd your sig come from? sounds biblical?